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Simplicity

Ruben Alfu

New member
Two exercises in simplicity of lighting and composition, C&C welcome, thanks!





20080503-IMG_2312_food-3.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Eggs in a wire basket



20080526-IMG_3130_food.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Shell


 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Excellent study project. But why crop so close? The shading might have more to give you. Not that you shouldn't crop, but why not take the object and the shadow, so that's all the lighting effect and consider that "one unit" for dedicating your heart and imagination.

If in the end, when you struggle with a presentation, it works out that you want it cropped, then at that stage do it! Even then, it would be interesting to see the full shot as well as the crop. But discosing that is a personal choice.

Of course, you might only think of this cropped and then there's no other way!

That, however, is unlikely unless you have one of those savant memories that can mentally build objects and then describe them in perfect detail without changing anything. There are folk like that, but they are one in a million or so. For us, it's often better to converse with the shadows of things and to do this, take it all in at the time of shooting.

Asher
 

Ruben Alfu

New member
Excellent study project. But why crop so close? The shading might have more to give you. Not that you shouldn't crop, but why not take the object and the shadow, so that's all the lighting effect and consider that "one unit" for dedicating your heart and imagination.

If in the end, when you struggle with a presentation, it works out that you want it cropped, then at that stage do it! Even then, it would be interesting to see the full shot as well as the crop. But discosing that is a personal choice.

Of course, you might only think of this cropped and then there's no other way!

That, however, is unlikely unless you have one of those savant memories that can mentally build objects and then describe them in perfect detail without changing anything. There are folk like that, but they are one in a million or so. For us, it's often better to converse with the shadows of things and to do this, take it all in at the time of shooting.

Asher


Hello Asher, thanks very much for your thoughts. I must agree with you, my quest for an interesting and simple photo could improve with more flexible thinking.
I wanted to get very close to the objects as a way to make the images more engaging, but in the way I missed the opportunity
to explore in other directions. The other takes are even more cropped than these.

I´m posting the images as captured on camera as a reference.



20080503-IMG_2312_food-52.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Eggs in a wire basket (as captured on camera)


20080526-IMG_3130_food-22.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Shell (as captured on camera)



 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Simple and impressive fecundity!

Hello Asher, thanks very much for your thoughts. I must agree with you, my quest for an interesting and simple photo could improve with more flexible thinking.
I wanted to get very close to the objects as a way to make the images more engaging, but in the way I missed the opportunity
to explore in other directions. The other takes are even more cropped than these.

I´m posting the images as captured on camera as a reference.



20080503-IMG_2312_food-52.jpg
20080526-IMG_3130_food-22.jpg



Ruben Alfu : Eggs in a wire basket and Pink Shell as captured on camera



These two pictures are siblings and go well together. I like the direction you are going expressing your imagination of and with simplicity.

To me both seem to show the male female bond with food supplied in abundance and a graceful ballerina dancing to accept the offering. One can invert this just as well and the first, no longer male can be female. What's offered? We simply skip all the intermediates; not lips, not eyes, arms breasts or genitals are offered, just the eggs themselves! It's so simple! The open weave of the basket might say, "I'm here for you, all my femininity is for you to enjoy!" The shell, now a pink matador, prances in noble splendor as males can do to show off their suitably attractive fecundity.

There is, I believe is a compelling and almost hypnotic function of art. Here, in "Simplicity", you seem to be approaching the kind of work I like a lot.

I'd say this is just the very beginning of an idea and you should feel encouraged to explore, keeping the one word, simplicity, to guide your way. In doing so, try not to cut through the gentle shadows that are only trying to serve you!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Since this work is a project you have personally made for yourself, even though it does involve lighting and studio gear, belongs to your own mission in materializing your own personal ideas that are somehow tentative and you want to work with. That's a wonderful personal artistic process where each stage teaches you what it might be. Each piece you make become your advisors for the next effort as you build a language of your own for the project.

This is why we have "Riskit". You can stick your neck out here and try things until it gets right and we'll enjoy the process!


Asher
 

Ruben Alfu

New member
Asher, your observations regarding the artistic potential of this work are motivating, inspirational, and blow minding, a big thanks.

I´ll be more than happy to share anything that might be interesting for the forum in my pursue to learn the language of simplicity. You are very generous to open this door for me. One more time, thanks!
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Ruben, you have started on a journey that is all but ' simple'. Simplicity in any field of life is the most
difficult thing to put in practice. I believe it is to do with the experience that are stored in our memory.

Now to get really simple ( even that is a product of millions of years of evolution ) is to think and try to see like a child. Maybe even feel like one.

A child feels..texture. A child sees light, color. the immature visual development at this stage has to be
by necessity limited. Hence I am a serious proponent of cropped images. Meaning filling the frame
with only the essence of something.

I love your rendering of the basket and the eggs. Without the eggs would beg the question of what the
carrier was meant for. An equally valid portrayal that would let the viewer look for answers. The shell
is complete. Nothing for the imagination to think. It is identifiable, immediate and loses my interest after
a few glances. The basket on the other hand, is lines, shapes, with a purpose, light, shadow and at the
end a beautiful collection of subtlely shown objects. not sharp. A child's vision would also see it as such.
That is simplicity in rendition.

excellent.

p.s this is not to deny the beauty of your shell or its intricate and complex patterns. But is it simple?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Fahim,

"Simple"?

As President Clinton's analysis of the word, "is" famously reminds us, it depends what you mean by the word. In fact, I'd argue, the word simple is in itself one of the most complex ideas one could put forward and itself richly branching with meaning. So it's the intent of the artist here that counts. So we each can guess, but that in itself is not simple and there's the irony of it!

I'm glad to have someone else look from a different angle. That's what eventually might make for a fuller understanding.

A child feels..texture. A child sees light, color.

Not that the infant should be the arbiter of the word, "simple", but here, note that the most delicately formed parts are the shadows. They do the work of claiming territory for the objects here. This is likely not to be noticed by the child as it's exploration will be to approach it and put it to its mouth. Things are being defined as objects to like or not. The library of references is being built up.

We, OTOH, have our rich references stores to bring to the image.

the immature visual development at this stage has to be
by necessity limited.

The child sees well. Its cataloging capability is immense and that shows by two a child might even speak two languages with complex ideas such as "IF, x THEN y"

Hence I am a serious proponent of cropped images. Meaning filling the frame with only the essence of something.

The guys who make money running workshops and seminars, (who are all not really artists), push that! However, it's really not a requirement of art to have a tightly filled screen. Rather it's a fashion. Empty white or black space can act as simple but powerful elements serving to draw out from our own libraries, rich ideas to explain and populate the artwork. Moreover, the very finest transitions or suggestions of lines, textures and shading can be more easily glimpsed and grasped at for meaning within generous space.

Ultimately simplicity might even demand an empty canvas and even that has been done!

The shell is complete. Nothing for the imagination to think. It is identifiable, immediate and loses my interest after a few glances.

To me, it's different. Surprisingly you see this as something merely concrete, albeit somewhat beautiful in form. I see this with the shadows as a complex abstraction, as symbolic. You see a mere shell with no sustainable draw for your interest. To me, however, the whirls of the shell are reminiscent of the piroutting ballerina, the matador prancing and the Dervish dancers twirling. Is it because I have watched so many dancers? Or am I more distracted to loosely linked ideas? Perhaps.

It's indefinite nature allows endless continued speculating.

So it seems here that you can so easily speculate on incompletely explained objects, (and find that interesting) but not at all the ethereal poetics of smudges of color and shade that I find so engaging.

Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Asher, art is for the artist to express and the viewer to interpret. sometimes it is clear, other times
each viewer might come to different interpretations..all equally valid.

Two persons can find something of interest in different visualisations of the same rendering. Depends on when it is visualised, where, in what frame of mind and in which environment.

"Simple"?

As President Clinton's analysis of the word, "is" famously reminds us, it depends what you mean by the word. In fact, I'd argue, the word simple is in itself one of the most complex ideas one could put forward and itself richly branching with meaning.



I agree. This is what I wrote: Simplicity in any field of life is the most
difficult thing to put in practice. I believe it is to do with the experience that are stored in our memory.


The child sees well...Upto a point. The vision is not yet fully developed and the act of seeing without intepretation is also underdeveloped.

The guys who make money running workshops and seminars, (who are all not really artists), push that! However, it's really not a requirement of art to have a tightly filled screen. Rather it's a fashion
Neither is it a requirement of art NOT to have a tightly filled screen. One has to decide the context and make judgements..neither is right or wrong. It is the photog's choice. If you like it good; if not doesn't make the photog's interpretation any less valid.

Ultimately simplicity might even demand an empty canvas and even that has been done!:

Creativity is always bringing something new, a new twist, a new idea, a new way..even when things have been done before...that's what it is all about.

To me, it's different: To me too!

So it seems here that you can so easily speculate on incompletely explained objects, (and find that interesting) but not at all the ethereal poetics of smudges of color and shade that I find so engaging:

That's why each one of us is unique in our own and beautiful way!

Simple, my dear Asher..but individually different.
 

Ruben Alfu

New member
Hello Fahim and Asher, thanks for bringing your points of view to the table, I'll post some comments and questions later about some of your statements. I hope others join the discussion as well, not only with C&C but also with photos. Speaking of which, I'll try to put more images than words in this thread but it is necessary to state what's my vision of simplicity in photography... so far.


A photo such as a close up of a flower may be a pretty and simple photo, but that's not simplicity at its best.

flor-amarilla.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Yellow flower (simple photo)





I think simplicity is interesting when it success expressing something complex in an efficient way. But a strict, conclusive statement would be boring for an artistic photograph, we need to leave room for personal interpretation. In any case, the relevance of simplicity depends on the complexity of the message it conveys.

fallen_rose01.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Down (simplistic photo)
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ruben,

Just as a place holder for my sentiments for now to say I like the new pictures too and am watching what you might do. Good so far. Will come back again to comment more.

Fahim,

Well said!

Asher
 

Ruben Alfu

New member
Now to get really simple ( even that is a product of millions of years of evolution ) is to think and try to see like a child. Maybe even feel like one.

Hello Fahim, thanks so much for sharing your wisdom. I never before thought about simplicity in this way, it seems so natural, now that you mention it. I´ll try it for sure.


The shell is complete. Nothing for the imagination to think. It is identifiable, immediate and loses my interest after a few glances... this is not to deny the beauty of your shell or its intricate and complex patterns. But is it simple?

Yes, IMO (see my post above), it is simple, no doubt about it. If we ask if this photo is "simplistic" (is it efficient, elegant in the way it elaborates a concept?) according to my reasoning, the answer is yes again, but at a much lesser degree for you than for Asher. This only demonstrates the relative nature of simplicity.


Ultimately simplicity might even demand an empty canvas and even that has been done!




20080607-20080607-_MG_4262_nyc_cpar.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Empty Canvas

Simplicity? Minimalism? Abstract? What´s going on in this blank space?

 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hello Fahim, thanks so much for sharing your wisdom. I never before thought about simplicity in this way, it seems so natural, now that you mention it. I´ll try it for sure.




Yes, IMO (see my post above), it is simple, no doubt about it. If we ask if this photo is "simplistic" (is it efficient, elegant in the way it elaborates a concept?) according to my reasoning, the answer is yes again, but at a much lesser degree for you than for Asher. This only demonstrates the relative nature of simplicity.







20080607-20080607-_MG_4262_nyc_cpar.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Empty Canvas

Simplicity? Minimalism? Abstract? What´s going on in this blank space?


Brilliant!

Asher
 

Michael Fontana

pro member
Ruben

I like - on your examples - the simplistic flower way more, meanwhile the simple, yellow one is more conventional, and in that sense boring.

But we need to be clear about simple - in terms of avoiding bells and whistles - vs simplistic - which has a negative connotation here.

It takes a lot of experience to make things clear in a simple/simplistic way - as you need to know the elementary stuff, how to work without bells and whistles, therefore just focus on the subject.
 

Ruben Alfu

New member
Ruben

I like - on your examples - the simplistic flower way more, meanwhile the simple, yellow one is more conventional, and in that sense boring.

But we need to be clear about simple - in terms of avoiding bells and whistles - vs simplistic - which has a negative connotation here.

It takes a lot of experience to make things clear in a simple/simplistic way - as you need to know the elementary stuff, how to work without bells and whistles, therefore just focus on the subject.

Great advice Michael, thanks so much. You are right, simplistic wasn´t used correctly in the "Down" photo. What I wanted to say is "this (the red rose) is a good example of simplicity", the yellow flower is "just simple".


Some key ideas brought up so far: flexibility, essence, innocence, focus... and well, simplicity.
 

Michael Fontana

pro member
Some key ideas brought up so far: flexibility, essence, innocence, focus... and well, simplicity.

I just thought that elementary could be added to it, and I agree with Asher and his abstract.

All these properties are important - even more these days when we use all that hightech gear, with its countless possibilities.
 

Ruben Alfu

New member
I like food and everything related with food, including food photography, a genre that I've been cultivating for a couple of years. I feel comfortable with food, I understand it better than other things, so, that´s gonna be my subject for now.

Here are two very different attempts to do something artistically relevant thanks to its simplicity.




20080427-IMG_1994_food-2.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Fruit Still Life




20080428-IMG_2076_food-2.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Stripped Pasta

 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
20080428-IMG_2076_food-2.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Stripped Pasta


Ruben,

Does your concept require the entire plate. Don't be led astray by my question, but if you do not actually need everything then look at your work again.

Asher
 

Ruben Alfu

New member
Ruben,

Does your concept require the entire plate. Don't be led astray by my question, but if you do not actually need everything then look at your work again.

Asher

Well Asher, I've been thinking about your question. No doubt I had a reason, an intention for creating this image the way I did it, but let me skip that.

As a way of experimentation, here's a simpler version of the photo that I like in terms of composition:


20080428-IMG_2076_food-2a.jpg


Ruben Alfu : Stripped Pasta (simplified)​


Is this version true to my vision and to what I wanted to express? Mostly. What's the optimal dose of simplicity?
 
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