Lake Michigan Beach

It was a very foggy day today. I was on a deserted beach and intrigued by the wind break. I like this shot. My questions are 1) what is wrong with it? and 2) how can I improve it?



ISO 240, f/4.6, 1/400, handheld.

Rachel Foster said:

It was a very foggy day today. I was on a deserted beach and intrigued by the wind break. I like this shot. My questions are 1) what is wrong with it? and 2) how can I improve it?

Jacob Eliana: Beach
​

ISO 240, f/4.6, 1/400, handheld.

Click to expand...

Hi Rachel,

You are doing yourself a big disservice by approaching (almost all) your works with the question "what is wrong with it". C'mon, you say that you like it, so why the negativism? Why do you think it needs improving?

Cheers,

Because, Cem, I'm inviting everyone to give it their "best shot." I learn that way! No image is perfect and I want to know how to get as close to perfect as I can possibly get. Imperfect doesn't mean it is without value. But my standards are high and this kind of criticism is how I get better. If I frame it as knowing the image (and every image) is flawed, I'm hoping people will be more comfortable in being honest and picky!

So, Cem, let me have it!

Rachel Foster said:

Because, Cem, I'm inviting everyone to give it their "best shot." I learn that way! No image is perfect and I want to know how to get as close to perfect as I can possibly get. Imperfect doesn't mean it is without value. But my standards are high and this kind of criticism is how I get better. If I frame it as knowing the image (and every image) is flawed, I'm hoping people will be more comfortable in being honest and picky!

So, Cem, let me have it!

Click to expand...

Hi Rachel,

I understand what you are trying to achieve and why, but I respectfully disagree with your approach in doing so. I, for one, provide the same C&C to someone who thinks that his/her image is perfect as I do to someone who thinks that it is rubbish. Putting yourself open to criticism is not equivalent to assuming that your work is not good to start with. Of course nothing is perfect and everything can be improved. But why shouldn't you be able to be satisfied about an image and then still learn from constructive criticism when it is offered?

Cheers,

Actually I like the image. But I also know there are things that I have not noticed that can be improved. What I"m trying to do is make it clear I'm not a "praise me" poster and I want to learn. Perhaps I need to be a bit more subtle in my approach though.

Rachel Foster said:

Actually I like the image. But I also know there are things that I have not noticed that can be improved. What I"m trying to do is make it clear I'm not a "praise me" poster and I want to learn. Perhaps I need to be a bit more subtle in my approach though.

Click to expand...

This is fair enough Rachel . By default, all images submitted form an invitation for C&C. You do not need to bring your image down to make that point clear. For the opposite situation, where one does not ask for C&C because one thinks that the image is fine enough as it is, we have the prefix "Just Sharing".

Cheers,

OK......I'm hoping people will offer reactions to this image, good or bad.

Rachel....

I only have anything bad to say about a image if its something thats screaming at me...I dont pick apart a good image as some do...But am always very honest in what i say...

In this image i like how the fence grabs your vision in the corner and draws you through to center...Might be better B/W as theres not much color there an the light seems to be flat.Not bad just not bright.....

Another thing which would be for me anyway a lot of work is cloning out or removing everything in the background so you just have the sand and the fence going from the corner to center...Thats just me though and few will agree with that...

Hi Rachel!Being you were so kind to look and comment on my image earlier I thought I would on yours if you don't mind but being new here(I did think about it first) I will attempt to do so but please take it with a grain of salt as this is my first critique here........

Initially when I first viewed this image I thought how nice and still do. As I started a look closer to critique I started find things that I found distracting for me.It was the left side of the image with the foot prints in the sand in the other wise deserted beach with the the remainder of the nice quality of the undisturbed sand in the rest of the image which I find nice. The framing of the fence I feel is not bad in itself but I found my eyes following the fence from the right side of the image to the left and the open space past the fence to those footsteps and looking for something else.This is a overall likable image IMO but if maybe if you worked the subject(the fence) from a slightly different angle,maybe lower and closer,just a suggestion, to get away from those foot steps and show more undisturbed sand up the hill some it would give you a more deserted feel to it,just a thought.With the bare trees in the background and the weathered and decaying fence gives me a cold feel and a beach that has been forgotten and unattended in the northern winter...

Now I kinda feel bad doing this critique after you defended my image as posted,thanks again, and I truly like this image as it is good on it's own.Like you I want to see myself grow and gain more skills that will help me capture better images in the future,critique is a good way to accomplish that or at least make you think about it.This was just my opinion and probably not worth the bandwidth I used up to make this comment and I am sure others with more experience here will have more valuable and trusting responses than mine and hope they do...

Stay warm Rachel,
Larry

Thanks, Larry and Erik. Like I said, the pickier the better. I was uncertain about the left side crop myself. I'm still not clear on how close to the fence to crop it. I'll have to play with that I think.

Thanks!

Rachel....When cropping i take it your keeping in mind the aspect ratio for printing?

Rachel,

First let me commend you on this interesting well conceived and executed snap. It's worthy of some measure of pride as this is the kind of image which has potential to develop well in post processing. Not only is it compositionally interesting, but there are, written into it, symbols we can relate to about the power of nature against the actions of man. Let me also commend you on the presentation with substantial white space all around, attribution to you and the title, properly placed as in a gallery. That respect for your work is important and it's good that you take the extra times to present your own work well like this. Want a quick comment, did you take a snap of the fence to the right! I'd love to see this stitched wider, (but of course you could predict that reaction from me, LOL)!

Larry Brown said:

the foot prints in the sand in the other wise deserted beach with the the remainder of the nice quality of the undisturbed sand in the rest of the image which I find nice.

Click to expand...

Hi Larry and Erik,

It's good of you both to comment as you do, from the heart. There's nothing wrong with your ideas, I just look at the picture from a vantage point of not what it might show but what it might mean.I feel differently about the image.

First it's an idea to consider, not framing this as the idealistic worn broken fence on a pristine beach. The picture is about disorder and that nature will unwind everything we put in pace, as it has done with the fence and will do with the footprints when the tide comes in. It would be interesting to enhance the footsteps and the detail of the fence. Voila! The picture is remarkable, at least to me.

And Rachel, yes you! Why on earth so you undersell yourself! This as good an image for you to work on in photoshop to rank and bring out features to your ideas and satisfaction. Just working on this one picture of a landscape will give you a lot of satisfaction. Cem, and Bart, BTW, know that! They take pains in composing pictures but then they are quite prepared to invest even more time and skill to process the image.

Thanks for sharing. I hope you work on it and post a somewhat large version.

Asher

BTW, What other images of this did you take that day?

Thanks, Asher. Unfortunatetly, no wider crop is available. I was with someone else and by the time I got to that spot we were out of time. Isn't that always the way?

I also posted the bird and on the pathways thread a road in fog. It was a good day.

Rachel Foster said:

I like this shot. My questions are 1) what is wrong with it? and 2) how can I improve it?

Jacob Eliana: Beach ​

Click to expand...

Hi Rachel

Thank you for letting me do this, I like your shot, don't be so hard on yourself

I have used levels, brightness and contrast and selective sharpening of the fence and blurring of the background to try and draw attention to the fence, bit difficult with such a small file so the result is somewhat crude, just and idea....

Brightening and sharpening definitely helps! What technique did use use to blur the background?

Rachel Foster said:

Brightening and sharpening definitely helps! What technique did use use to blur the background?

Click to expand...

Hi Rachel

Made a selection, feathered a bit, then used Gaussian blur, the file is too small to work with properly, so it was just a very rough quick attempt, but it gives an idea I hope.....

I have problems with haloes when I use gaussian. I've had more luck with surface blur. Is there a trick to using gaussian?

Rachel Foster said:

I have problems with haloes when I use gaussian. I've had more luck with surface blur. Is there a trick to using gaussian?

Click to expand...

Hi Rachel

I've hardly ever used either of them to be honest, I've found on the odd occassion I have used blur to use it very gently and apply feathering, to help prevent a line showing. I've never use surface blur, so I couldn't comment on that I'm afraid.....

Rachel Foster said:

It was a very foggy day today. I was on a deserted beach and intrigued by the wind break. I like this shot. My questions are 1) what is wrong with it? and 2) how can I improve it?

Jacob Eliana: Beach ​

ISO 240, f/4.6, 1/400, handheld.

Click to expand...

Rachel,

The image is as you describe and, I believe, successful.

I suppose I could nit-pik about the lonely post on the left edge. I think I might crop/clone it out or give it a bit more room.

In my world, filled with photographic self-torment, I would look at this and ask: "Why didn't I back off a few feet and move to the left a bit so that the tracks entered the image closer to the lower=left corner, leaving the fence where it is, and then submit it in the "paths" challenge thread. This isn't about improving your image but about investigating a location for other possibilities.

I agree the lone post on the far left needs to go. Thanks for pointing that out. I've wanted to capture the wind break fences since I first saw them months ago and have struggled with the composition. Earlier attempts included this, which simply doesn't work.


I'm getting closer and do appreciate the ideas and suggestions. Thanks!

Rachel Foster said:

I agree the lone post on the far left needs to go. Thanks for pointing that out. I've wanted to capture the wind break fences since I first saw them months ago and have struggled with the composition. Earlier attempts included this, which simply doesn't work.

I'm getting closer and do appreciate the ideas and suggestions. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Drop down, go much wider and get that scalloped sand. Ic really like this project. Endless changes for you!

Asher

How much sky?

Rachel, I have no crticism to add. I positively love the photo. It transported me to the cold/ice beach scences in Montauk in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (possibly my favorite movie). I feel both the despair and the hopefullness of the movie in your picture and the curvature of the fence. Love it.