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View Full Version : Light This! Ask for help on lighting a particular subject. pocket wizards not firing in LiveView on 5d Mk2


Ralph Honsbeek
July 9th, 2010, 07:52 AM
Hi there ,

I was just wondering if anyone could share some light on my recent problem.

When setting up a macro box environment , I have my 5d mk2 in live view and pocket wizards setup and wired to a Speedlite 430 EX ... Although the connection is there and while in live view mode I take a picture but the flashes fail to fire completely. I try the same setup with my 1d Mk3 and never a problem , they fire , any reason why this could happen

thank you

Ralph

John Angulat
July 9th, 2010, 08:39 AM
Hi Ralph,
Antennas lined up properly?
How close are the 2 wizards?
Although the manual states you must keep a 12" minimum distance, I've seen complaints up to 2 feet.

Nill Toulme
July 9th, 2010, 11:47 AM
What do you mean by "the flashes fail to fire completely?" Do you mean the flashes fire, but not "completely," or that they completely fail to fire? If the former, are you sure this is not a sync issue? I vaguely recall seeing something about sync in live view with remote flashes...

Nill

Ralph Honsbeek
July 9th, 2010, 04:32 PM
What do you mean by "the flashes fail to fire completely?" Do you mean the flashes fire, but not "completely," or that they completely fail to fire? If the former, are you sure this is not a sync issue? I vaguely recall seeing something about sync in live view with remote flashes...

Nill

forget completely, they fire when setup on the 1d and don't when on the 5dmk2 same distances

Bart_van_der_Wolf
July 9th, 2010, 05:16 PM
forget completely, they fire when setup on the 1d and don't when on the 5dmk2 same distances

Hi Ralph,

Which PW model are you using ?

You probably checked if the 5D2 will trigger the transmitter, and that there are no custom functions that prevent the transmitter to function? I don't know the 5D2 Custom functions as well as the ones on my camera, but check the ones (if any) that involve limiting shutterspeeds or apertures or ISO. Obviously anything that changes the regular flash functionality would be suspect.

Cheers,
Bart

Doug Kerr
July 9th, 2010, 05:39 PM
forget completely, they fire when setup on the 1d and don't when on the 5dmk2 same distances
Does a flash fire in the shoe of the 5D2?

Is there a manual fire button on the transmitter? Does it make the linked flash fire?

Is it the same transmitter that works on the 1D but not on the 5D2?

If there are two transmitters, does one work on the 5D2 but not the other?

(You probably said all that, but I didn't read the whole thread.)

Best regards,

Doug

Charles L Webster
July 9th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Turn off "silent shooting" it inhibits the external flash sync.

Ralph Honsbeek
July 10th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Turn off "silent shooting" it inhibits the external flash sync.

Thank you for jump starting my brain ^^

Charles L Webster
July 10th, 2010, 08:52 AM
Thank you for jump starting my brain ^^

Someone had to tell me about it too

Ralph Honsbeek
July 10th, 2010, 09:03 AM
My "photography life" would not be so worriless without the "Open Photography Forum"

Thanks a lot for all the help you guys ,,,

-Ralph-

Bart_van_der_Wolf
July 10th, 2010, 09:57 AM
Turn off "silent shooting" it inhibits the external flash sync.

Hi Chas,

That was apparently a good guess. Now why would Canon want to link such behavior to silent mode? I have no idea what the benefit or even the underlying reason might be.

Cheers,
Bart

Doug Kerr
July 10th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Hi, Bart,

Hi Chas,

That was apparently a good guess. Now why would Canon want to link such behavior to silent mode? I have no idea what the benefit or even the underlying reason might be.

Well, it may be that the use of the "electronic virtual front curtain" involved in silent shooting, combined with the physical second curtain, gives a situation that is not flash-friendly. I'll have to give that some thought.

Best regards,

Doug

Doug Kerr
July 10th, 2010, 10:13 AM
The Canon White Paper for the EOS 50D and 5D2 says:

E-TTL Flash photography is possible in normal Live View mode, but not when the Silent shutter mode is activated.

Interestingly enough, the White Paper for the 40D seems to indicate that flash operation with silent shooting is practical:

When using an EX-series Speedlite, the shooting sequence will be the same as the EOS-1D Mark III's Live View Function in either silent shooting Mode 1 or 2. In other words, after pressing the shutter button all the way down to initiate an exposure, the reflex mirror will drop down briefly in order to register the E-TTL II preflash data, then the mirror will be moved out of the optical path during the actual exposure.

The acquisition of the preflash data is obviously a consideration here. Perhaps the arrangement described for the 40D (and 1D3) just didn't work out and Canon had to "move on". In any case, the needed mirror drop doesn't really fit the "silent" paradigm.

Best regards,

Doug

Bart_van_der_Wolf
July 10th, 2010, 10:38 AM
The acquisition of the preflash data is obviously a consideration here. Perhaps the arrangement described for the 40D (and 1D3) just didn't work out and Canon had to "move on". In any case, the needed mirror drop doesn't really fit the "silent" paradigm.

Hi Doug,

The strange thing is that, assuming an older type, the PocketWizard is triggered with X-sync through the external connection, so E-TTL is not a part of the decision.

The latest PW models do support E-TTL II because they trigger via the hot-shoe and communicate the settings via Radio Frequency.

Cheers,
Bart

Asher Kelman
July 10th, 2010, 10:46 AM
Ralph,

For the record, what PW model are you using and how is it linked to the 5DII?

Asher

Charles L Webster
July 10th, 2010, 11:21 AM
Hi Chas,

That was apparently a good guess. Now why would Canon want to link such behavior to silent mode? I have no idea what the benefit or even the underlying reason might be.

Cheers,
Bart

Wasn't much of a guess, I had the same issue when I first got my 50D 1-1/2 years ago.

My assumption about the reason agrees with Doug's, that the external flash is triggered by the physical shutter curtain, and therefore isn't compatible with Silent Shooting mode.

I don't try to second guess why manufacturers do what they do. I have been involved in hardware and software design for many years and understand the compromises that must be made at each stage of the process. I simply accept the limitations as what they are, and work around them.

On a positive note, I find tethered live view shooting in the studio the best thing that has happened to my photography since I went digital. The ability to see the shot on the computer screen in advance, and to drive the camera focus controls while zoomed into the live view image gives me a degree of control I haven't had since using a loupe on the ground glass of a view camera.

Asher Kelman
July 10th, 2010, 11:47 AM
On a positive note, I find tethered live view shooting in the studio the best thing that has happened to my photography since I went digital. The ability to see the shot on the computer screen in advance, and to drive the camera focus controls while zoomed into the live view image gives me a degree of control I haven't had since using a loupe on the ground glass of a view camera.

Charles,

This is a fascinating sub-topic for which a new thread is started here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12064).

Thanks!

Asher

Doug Kerr
July 11th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Just to finish the original issue with a little more detail -

The manuals for the EOS 40D, 50D, and 5D say (I have "improved" the language for clarity):

With a [Canon or apparent Canon] flash in effect [onboard or external], in Live View, silent shooting is disabled regardless of the menu setting.

With a "foreign" flash in effect, in Live View, with either silent shooting mode 1 or 2 in effect, the flash will not fire.

Again, one reason for this is presumably that ETTL flash metering requires the main mirror to flap, thus destroying the "silence".

Best regards,

Doug

Ralph Honsbeek
July 12th, 2010, 04:13 AM
Hi Chas,

That was apparently a good guess. Now why would Canon want to link such behavior to silent mode? I have no idea what the benefit or even the underlying reason might be.

Cheers,
Bart

I guess in the mind of a Canon Camera developer , they would not want to put in the extra wiring and/ or controllers for such problems to not exist. It sounds like a genuine bug , but none so severe that any concerns would be raised in Canon Developers Section. I guess their answer would be , "Don't use the Silent Mode then " ^^

Thanks Again

Ralph