Pocket wizards etc

Hi folks...

I've decided to venture into the land of off camera flash! Yes..it's a new world for me and scary to boot!

I had a one time need for off camera flash and picked up a cheap ( in Canada) Morris one channel set. As it turned out I didn't need it. arrrrg!

If I want ttl with my Canon gear am I limited to Pocket wizards for wireless flash? I'm not sure if there are other brands available on the market. Here in Toronto the Pocket Wizard PlusII units are selling for about 375.00 per unit plus tax which means about 427.50 per unit! I know I can buy them from a US company and get a better price, just he way the world works, but are there any other choices I have other than pocket wizards?

Right now this will be used for firing Canon flash units into umbrellas. I'm not quite up to studio lighting just yet. Most of my work is assignement based so theses flash heads are fine, but they need to be off camera.

All thoughts are welcomed and appreciated.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Why don't you describe you shooting set up a bit more? Is this indoors, outside, moving, a set, people or product?

The 550 Ex and siblings form a very competent system for certain purposes.

For one time jobs, and anyway before purchase, rental of flash systems is always wise.

If you do specify the requirements, then we'll have a go at suggestions.

The Canon flashes can be fired remotely from your camera using the STE transmitter or else another flash unit set as a master and the others as slaves.

Interfering corners and in bright sun or at considerable distances outside, the wizards and similar become relevant. I wouldn't buy anything yet until you have defined your needs and specified what you now own and your budget.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Hi Jeff,

Why don't you describe you shooting set up a bit more? Is this indoors, outside, moving, a set, people or product?

The 550 Ex and siblings form a very competent system for certain purposes.

For one time jobs, and anyway before purchase, rental of flash systems is always wise.

If you do specify the requirements, then we'll have a go at suggestions.

The Canon flashes can be fired remotely from your camera using the STE transmitter or else another flash unit set as a master and the others as slaves.

Interfering corners and in bright sun or at considerable distances outside, the wizards and similar become relevant. I wouldn't buy anything yet until you have defined your needs and specified what you now own and your budget.

Asher

Click to expand...

Thanks Asher,

I"m trying to get more off camera flash into my work. Many of the little mini assignments I'm given are often a headshot type of situation. Being able to have the flash unit off axis either as a main of fill allows for far more flexibility.

I've been intensely reading this site http://strobist.blogspot.com/ created by one of the staffers at the Baltimore Sun newspaper. It has extensive tutorials on not just photjournalism but the use of off flash to create far more intriguing and palletable shots.

His techniques and tutorials are quite good and there is much to learn and digest on this site for a person of my capability.

I'm simply looking to bring more life to my results. Without always fighting the harshness of on camera. Yes I can bounce etc..but getting it off camera easily and effectively intrigues me,

Hence my wondering if I was limited to only the Pocket wizard product for radio triggers that will support TTL?

Since the pocket wizards are so expensive in Canada..I'm looking for a simlar product if indeed one exists. I may just bite the bullet and order from the US.

Note:...as a Canadian I always try and buy from a Canadian company if possible. It's not about being anti-anything it's about supporting my local merchants as much as I can. I love wandering into a large or small photo stores and spending a few hours looking at new gear and talking with knowledgeable sales people. But those stores will go by the wayside if people don't support them. So thats my reasoning for trying to buy in Canada at a reasonable cost if possible.

On another note I have been asked and have accepted the invitation to shoot for the local chapter of the Special Olympics. We're going through the neccessary police clearances all people go through when working with young adults and children here in Ontario. At my age, 52, with retirement looming slightly over the horizon, photography is a way to stay young. Maybe it will never become a buisness who knows? But I will be out there and working and thinking. Either way I win.

This another reason I want to have the option for off camera flash at my fingertips if I need it. I have developed the skills to most often control daylight lighting situations, but my low light and flash skills are to be desired. It is this area that I am working to improve my skill sets to achieve consistent results.

Hope that explains what you needed to know.

Jeff

What is it about the built in infra-red wireless capability of the Canons that doesn't meet your requirements? Nothing you said specificlly requires RF over IR wireless.

Tim Gray said:

What is it about the built in infra-red wireless capability of the Canons that doesn't meet your requirements? Nothing you said specificlly requires RF over IR wireless.

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Line of sight, distance and bright sunlight. The STE-2 unit is great I'd like the luxury of having the radio units when I move into a contolled studio setting down the road. In addition to my freelance mini projects I have been taking extensive studio lighting courses as well. The pocket wizards seem to be used almost exclusively.

Jeff

Well, for sure, if you are going to commit to complex studio set ups, the Wizards are great. However, dis' the speedlights at your peril!!

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Well, for sure, if you are going to commit to complex studio set ups, the Wizards are great. However, dis' the speedlights at your peril!!

Asher

Click to expand...

Actually quite the opposite Asher!

I'm really enjoying the learning curve of moving the flash off camera. I will be adding another Canon flash to the setup failrly soon. Both on small stands with umbrells. Most of my lighting needs are covered with a simple easy to carry kit.

I know the Canon STE-2 will handle a fair amount of situations, but why buy a piece of equipmet when down the road one will need the added flexibility? I may as well put the cost of the ST-2 into the RF trigger.

My only question was whether there was another brand of RF triggers other than Pocket wizards that retain the ttl functionality?

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff O'Neil said:

My only question was whether there was another brand of RF triggers other than Pocket wizards that retain the ttl functionality?

Click to expand...

AFAIK, Pocket Wizards do not support TTL either. They simply cost 4 times as much while providing more range and reliability. You can only get TTL (E-TTL) with Canon's light based wireless.

Jeff O'Neil said:

Line of sight, distance and bright sunlight. The STE-2 unit is great I'd like the luxury of having the radio units when I move into a contolled studio setting down the road.

Click to expand...

Have you tried using a 550EX or 580EX as master rather than the STE-2? The more powerful flash might help. But, I have no idea as I use the cheap Morris units. I do so love off camera flash.

some thoughts,

Sean

Use manual flash, exposure settings for consistent results

You'll notice that in the Strobist articles, that using TTL-like flash exposure control is eschewed, for various reasons, but the most prominent one being "lack of control".

There are really good reasons for using your camera in Manual exposure mode, and setting your flashes manually, if you are taking portraiture or still-life kind of shots. Even in situations that are dynamic, if the light levels are not really changing (like indoor venues, or always taking shots facing the same way outdoors, with same/similar subjects passing at the same distance from your flash units), you can make use of manual setting to your advantage.

For as good as Canon's (and others') flash exposure algorithms are, experienced flash photographers will tell you that some percentage of shots will come out over- or under-exposed, unless you do various things to override the auto-decisions that the camera/flash combination are attempting to make for you.

That's why the Strobist is pushing folks to get old, surplus Nikon SB-28 units (that have the PC connection) and either direct-wire or connect the Pocket Wizards to them via the PC sockets. The SB-28s allow you to manually set the flash, and otherwise, they are a nice, basic (and cheap, until the online retailers found out that there is a new demand for these units caused by the Strobist articles) PC-connectable flash unit.

Sometimes (a lot of the time, actually) simpler is better.

If you haven't read and digested http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/, that should be required reading for anyone contemplating doing any extensive work with Canon EOS bodies and flash. Pay particular attention to the areas that discuss the vague (and changing, with each new model) way the camera's flash exposure system works vis a vis what exposure mode (P, Tv, Av, M) and metering mode the camera is in. You'll find that the contortions that you must sometime go through to ensure (hopefully) accurate, repeatable flash metering in some of the auto modes are truly comical. I liken it sometimes to rubbing your stomach and patting your head.

You have a histogram on your camera, and LCD review, none of which are available to a 'guess and click' film shooter. Use them to your advantage, by taking test shots and adjusting your exposure and lighting manually until you get what you are looking for. It's almost as good (and sometimes better) than the flash meters that film shooters had to use. At that point, you know that no matter if the subject is wearing a dark suit or white dress, that their movement in and around your camera's focusing and/or metering zones will not 'fool' the camera into over- or under-exposing your shot.

Dave New said:

You have a histogram on your camera, and LCD review, none of which are available to a 'guess and click' film shooter. Use them to your advantage, by taking test shots and adjusting your exposure and lighting manually until you get what you are looking for. It's almost as good (and sometimes better) than the flash meters that film shooters had to use. At that point, you know that no matter if the subject is wearing a dark suit or white dress, that their movement in and around your camera's focusing and/or metering zones will not 'fool' the camera into over- or under-exposing your shot.

Click to expand...

For normal (non-flash) exposures, I tend to go the opposite way. I've learned that the evaluative metering on my 20D will misbehave in certain situations, and I dial in compensation as needed. 90% of the time it gets it right and I don't have to worry, as compared to always having to do the work otherwise. For those 10% of shots where I have a dark background and a white bird or the like, I know to dial it down to -1.

That said, I've been using PC-cords for my off-camera, and as you say, it's not hard at all to do everything in manual given a relatively static setup. At that point the big danger becomes subjects moving closer or farther from the flash. At small distances that can make a huge difference.

I've had an ST-E2 for a long time and like it a lot. It works a better indoors than out, however.

I've not had problems with sunlight, though I suppose if the receivers were angled into the sun that could blind them.

The biggest problem outdoors is the line-of-sight restriction, which requires that the camera be behind the lights (or the controller on a cord and aimed at the lights, which I recall trying once or twice). Indoors, bounce is usually enough to let the strobes see the controller, but outdoors there's no bounce, so snaps like this one from Sunday

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are a bit problematic (here the strobe was on a stand just off my left shoulder, and I needed to take a step back).

BTW, if you do use the 550EX you can still use manual power settings in slave mode -- you have to hold the mode button down for a few seconds. (550EX control layout is among the weirdest I've ever seen, with each different button or set of buttons following a different paradigm -- mode toggles, pairs of buttons, timed and untimed.. yuck)

The biggest hassles for TTL are the classic ones: black tuxes and white bridal dresses. Yet TTL seems to generally be a win for indoor shooting, so people use it anyway (e.g. Neil Cowley)


Some more references: http://del.icio.us/bjorke/flash+photography

There is no TTL metering period with anything but the manufacturers units or some 3rd party knockoffs such as Sigma. Pocket Wizards are designed for use with manual or auto sensor strobes/flashes. I'm afraid that there is no solution to your current problem in existence.

Thank you all for your responses.

I think I'll keep my one channel Morris unit for now, perhaps pick up the Canon ST-E2 and see how things go.

On camera flash has been my nemisis for quite some time.

Indeed I did misread..or read someone's article that stated the pocket wizards allow TTL communication between the the camera and strobe. That obviously is not correct.

In my in class studio work I use a light meter to balance the light, but I'm having trouble converting that to units like the 550ex. It should be simple and I'm getting there. I think sometimes I get mudddled up in the technicalities and forget to just look at the light. Old dog..new tricks!

My first classes were with a photographer that has mastered hard lighting for glamour and product shooting. I think some of his habits have been entrenched too firmly in my mind. That soft moody dark look that Stephen Eastwood seems to have mastered are eluding me. I think it's just more practice and working with other pros as an assistant to get the knowledge.

I truly appreciate your input.

Jeff