Who likes steam locomotives?

[Asher Kelman]

This was taken with a 1DII and handheld sequential shot, quick-stitched on a trial version of AutoPano Pro software. This is a reduction to 1500 pixels wide of a 417 MB 16BIT file 8500 pixels wide.

Just S curve and sharpened. Not cleaned up of the signs and no sky added!

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/OPF200704/Pano_exRAW0983handheld_train.jpg
© 2007 Asher Kelman AT&SF Class 870 Consolidation (2-8-0) Heritage Park, Santa Fe Springs, CA

This train will be posted again in other reincarnations, for sure.

The stitching was surpisingly easy!

50 1.2L and the aperture was f 7.0, Speed, 1/85sec. ISO 320. This was just a 10 second 12 grab shots.

My first stitch with this software and it was fun!

The software is found here (http://www.autopano.net).

Asher

[Michael Nagel]

Yesterday was the celebration of 100 years of railway between Schliersee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schliersee) and Bayrischzell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayrischzell). The main attraction was the train with two steam locomotives.

Here are the two:

The older one and the type initially used on this section is the Bavarian Pt 2/3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Pt_2/3):

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/5922436283_9a5069e8e5_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922436283/)
70 083 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922436283/)


The other was the more recent DRB Class 41 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRB_Class_41):

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6123/5922441051_b1183f9062_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922441051/)
Abfahrt (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922441051/)

It was a great occasion to take that train:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6126/5922997376_3fc5d996a4_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922997376/)
Unterwegs 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922997376/)

More to follow.

Best regards,
Michael

[Cem_Usakligil]

Lovely series Michael. Please show more, do you also have the details of the locomotives? I am sure that some members will appreciate seeing those. :)

[Ron Morse]

Very enjoyable series. I also would like to see more.

My grandfather was an engineer on a steam locomotive. I remember when diesel/electric first came out he told me those things will never last, you can't replace steam. He hated the thought of steam going away.

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi Ron,

Very enjoyable series. I also would like to see more.

My grandfather was an engineer on a steam locomotive. I remember when diesel/electric first came out he told me those things will never last, you can't replace steam. He hated the thought of steam going away.
Reminds me one of my favorite quotes:
Everything that can be invented has been invented.
Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. patent office, 1899

[Michael Nagel]

Cem, Ron, thanks for the nice words.

I see that Asher has made it a challenge, but please let me post another two series of photos before we open the flood gates :)

I will start with the details now.

Best regards,
Michael

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi Michael,

....I see that Asher has made it a challenge, but please let me post another two series of photos before we open the flood gates :)....
Nowadays, challenges seem to be the only thing in OPF which causes some reasonable level of interactivity. Except, of course, for the usual periodical debates on what constitutes art, lol.

[Michael Nagel]

These are from the Bavarian Pt 2/3:

Cylinder:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6140/5923002494_9e2dbd8fda_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923002494/)
Zylinder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923002494/)


The parts which transmit the motion to the wheels during maintenance:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/5923001556_8cf62cdfd2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923001556/)
Mechanik (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923001556/)


Some vapor:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6145/5922437155_60ee56c049_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922437155/)
Dampf (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922437155/)


I could not identify this one - could someone help me out?
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6005/5922995542_5807c8b688_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922995542/)
Maschinenteil (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922995542/)
Could it be a secondary air injection pump?

Best regards,
Michael

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Michael,



I could not identify this one - could someone help me out?
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6005/5922995542_5807c8b688_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922995542/)
Maschinenteil (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922995542/)
Could it be a secondary air injection pump?

That might be a feedwater injection pump (steam-driven, it pushes the feedwater into the boiler which, being under pressure, does not drink gladly). But many locomotives use an ejector, a purely hydraulic mechanism for dealing with that.

More likely, especially given its location, it is the air compressor for the air brake system (also steam-driven). (They look very similar, and I'm not skilled enough to immediately distinguish them.)

Thanks for the great shots.

Best regards,

Doug

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Michael,


The parts which transmit the motion to the wheels during maintenance:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/5923001556_8cf62cdfd2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923001556/)
Mechanik (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923001556/)

In addition, prominent here are parts of the valve gear (evidently of the Walschaerts type or a derivative). The object at the upper left (in a joint housing with the cylinder proper) is the cylinder valve (a piston, or "spool", type) The almost vertical lever adds together scaled sine and cosine terms from the driving wheel rotation (not usually described that way), the sum moving the valve stem.

Lovely!

Those who might be interested in the basic theory and reality of such valve gear will find that discussed at some length in this article:

http://dougkerr.net/Pumpkin/articles/Loco_Valves.pdf

Best regards,

Doug

[Michael Nagel]

Doug, thanks for the additional explanations.

Here are two details of the DRB Class 41 and the interior of one rail car.

Between the two wheels is the compressor for the brake (easy, it was written on it):

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6005/5923003570_cdbf1322f3_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923003570/)
Räder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923003570/)


This was pretty loud!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6139/5923004962_a394b827cc_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923004962/)
Pfiff (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923004962/)


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6139/5922435379_2873f137f3_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922435379/)
Im Waggon (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922435379/)


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6007/5923000754_b7c8836574_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923000754/)
Gepäcknetze (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923000754/)


Best regards,
Michael

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Michael,

Doug, thanks for the additional explanations.

Here are two details of the DRB Class 41 and the interior of one rail car.

Between the two wheels is the compressor for the brake (easy, it was written on it):

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6005/5923003570_cdbf1322f3_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923003570/)
Räder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923003570/)
That's always a help!

When I was conceived (Buffalo, New York, about August, 1935) my father was working as a precision machinist for a company (then known as Worthington Pump and Machine) that made (among other things) feedwater pumps and air compressors for steam locomotives.

On this picture, on the driving wheel to the right, we note that the movement of the connecting rod (which of course actually moves the wheel) can be thought of as a cosine function of wheel position. It is picked up into the "summation" I referred to by a link from the crosshead (the part being greased on your "maintenance" photo) that is moved by the piston rod, and which in turn moves the driving rod.

Note the "wrist" in the picture (it is vertical at the moment). Its pin (at its top just now) is 90° from the pin the connecting rod works (on which the wrist is mounted), and so its movement can be thought of as a sine function of driving wheel position.

Its motion is carried by the link we see to a swinging arc mechanism (not seen right here) that scales it by an adjustable factor (with a range from plus to minus). Its output is fed by a link to the other input of the summation (at the very top of the "almost vertical" rod I commented on in the other picture).

This is all neat stuff.

Best regards,

Doug

[Michael Nagel]

Doug - thanks. The OPF is not only a valuable source for photography...

Here is another view from the Bavarian Pt 2/3 mechanics discussed here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117778&postcount=9).

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/5922437973_28b361e7b4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922437973/)
Gestänge (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922437973/)


There were more than just us:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6133/5923005582_c9cd776391_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923005582/)
Vorbereitung zur Abfahrt (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5923005582/)


One more on the way up:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6145/5922433371_217c48485e_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922433371/)
Unterwegs 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922433371/)


Arrival at Bayrischzell:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6024/5922999038_104bf957f6_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922999038/)
Unterwegs 4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leclou/5922999038/)


Best regards,
Michael

[Dawid Loubser]

Some beautiful steam locomotives pictured in this thread!

Steam locomotives - specifically South African Railways ones - are some of my favourite things in the world. I posted some of these two recently (silver-gelatin darkroom prints, large format film):

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/135/a/3/gea_garratt_detail_by_philosomatographer-d3getad.jpg

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/150/c/f/garratts_in_profile_by_philosomatographer-d3hkxhj.jpg

And some much older, digitally captured ones:

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs29/f/2008/128/5/9/Fleeting_memory_by_philosomatographer.jpg
(Ironically, this image was titled "fleeting memory" - and now, a mere three years later, the have sadly permanently discontinued this steam service)

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs13/f/2007/091/8/3/A_Bleak_Outlook_by_philosomatographer.jpg

I have just developed a roll of film, and a number of large format film sheets, which contain some steam locomotive images that I am looking forward to printing soon. Watch this space! (this would be a great thread to contribute them to).

[StuartRae]

A few more arcane bits and pieces to contemplate. Any information as to their purpose would be appreciated.

From the Northern Rock, Ravenglass and Eskdale 15" narrow gauge railway.

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-043-01.jpg

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-044-01.jpg

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-048-01.jpg

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-049-01.jpg


Regards,

Stuart

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Stuart,

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-049-01.jpg
Oh, in fact this is the whistle ("chime" type - not so used to that kind in the US).

Best regards,

Doug

[StuartRae]

Hi Doug,

Thank you very much for all the info.

I managed to work this one out all by myself :-)

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-050-01.jpg


And here's the whole thing at Dalegarth station.

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-040-01.jpg

Regards,

Stuart

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Stuart,
I managed to work this one out all by myself :-)

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-050-01.jpg

Ah, yes, a mobile radio speaker and microphone!

Best regards,

Doug

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Stuart,

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/aut07-049-01.jpg
Oh, in fact this is the whistle ("chime" type - not so used to that kind in the US).

Best regards,

Doug

[Dawid Loubser]

Yesterday I scanned a couple of negatives that I had recently processed, which probably belong in this thread :) Both were from the railway museum in George (Western Cape, ZA) - depicting once again the handsome (and giant) Beyer-Garratt articulated locomotives used in South Africa, as well as a steam-powered recovery crane.

Garratt Aspects
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/210/8/5/garratt_aspects_by_philosomatographer-d422sh0.jpg
(Kodak TMY-2 400 film, Olympus OM-3Ti, Zuiko 35mm f/2.0)

Procession of the defunct
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/210/0/d/procession_of_the_defunct_by_philosomatographer-d422s8o.jpg
(Kodak TMY-2 400 film, Olympus OM-3Ti, Zuiko 21mm f/2.0)

[Asher Kelman]

Michael and Dawid,

These pictures, together, makes us rethink of steam locomotives in just terms of massive black sombre work machines. There's so much more. The amazing colors used and then the details of the machinery and fittings open up a whole new idea of pride, artistry, workmanship and diligence. It's so much more than industry in these breath breathing iron dragons!

Asher

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Dawid,
Yesterday I scanned a couple of negatives that I had recently processed, which probably belong in this thread :) Both were from the railway museum in George (Western Cape, ZA) - depicting once again the handsome (and giant) Beyer-Garratt articulated locomotives used in South Africa, as well as a steam-powered recovery crane.
The Garratt was such a classic - a triumph of engineering over "style".

The tonal range of this shot is just exquisite - it certainly reminds me of the glory days of B&W locomotive photography.

On the other shot, it is interesting to see its elaborate accessory steam manifold, painted in a light color, and the wonderful steam chime (as we saw in another part of the world earlier in this thread).

Thanks so much.

Best regards,

Doug

[Dawid Loubser]

Hi, Dawid,

The Garratt was such a classic - a triumph of engineering over "style".

The tonal range of this shot is just exquisite - it certainly reminds me of the glory days of B&W locomotive photography.

Thank you, Doug! I certainly have no complaints over the wonderful tones and dynamic range that the most modern and capable of analogue monochrome capture mediums - Kodak TMY-2 400 - is giving me. In a 12x16in print, it is certainly the lens - and not the film - that is the limiting factor of this film in 35mm. It's absolutely nothing like shooting an ISO400 film in large format, but it still does handsomely when 35mm is all you have with you at the time :-)

On the other shot, it is interesting to see its elaborate accessory steam manifold, painted in a light color, and the wonderful steam chime (as we saw in another part of the world earlier in this thread).

Thanks so much.

Best regards,

Doug

The SAR Garratts certainly did push all boundaries of steam engineering. Speed was not important here with our mountainous curves, but power, flexibility, and reliability was. The last designs dated from the mid 1950s - when most other countries already started to make the switch to diesel/electric - and were handsome, trouble-free machines will fully automatic lubrication, highly refined mechanical stokers, roller bearings on all axles, etc. The two engines I posted here though were slightly older designs, the GF (a smaller, but handsome, and quite fast machine) and GEA class garratts, dating from the 1920s to the early 1940s. I did make some more "technical" profile shots from these engines as well, which I'll post when I get around to printing them in the darkroom.

Oh - lastly - I didn't originally post this image, but it's a bit of detail from inside one of these machines; A not-so-subtle reminder to the crewman to think twice before lifting any of the many long fire poking irons up into the air, where it could touch the 25,000 volt AC overhead wires on electrified routes and instantly kill the bearer:

Once there was danger
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/210/b/7/once_there_was_danger_by_philosomatographer-d422rxp.jpg
(Olympus OM-3Ti, Zuiko 35mm f/2.0, Kodak TMY-2 400 film)

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Dawid,

The two engines I posted here though were slightly older designs, the GF (a smaller, but handsome, and quite fast machine) and GEA class garratts, dating from the 1920s to the early 1940s.
Yes, I thought that perhaps the 4-6-2+2-6-4 might have been a GF class. I couldn't see the driver arrangement of the GEA.

Thanks for the additional info and for the great pix.

Best regards,

Doug

[Dawid Loubser]

Yes, I thought that perhaps the 4-6-2+2-6-4 might have been a GF class. I couldn't see the driver arrangement of the GEA.

Thanks for the additional info and for the great pix.

Yup - South Africa had a couple of mighty 4-8-2+2-8-4 Garratts - most significant the GEA (third largest), then the GM and GMA/M (second largest, and my favourite), and the immensely powerful GL (of 1929, most powerful steam engine ever to operate in on a guage narrower than the US/UK 4ft 8.5in standard; and more powerful than any british steam engine ever, period).

When I was still a boy, I had the pleasure of riding in the cabs of the two larger of these a number of times, and helping to clean and prepare a couple of them. I will never forget those wonderful days - The drivers were always so impressed with the fanatical knowledge this 8-year-old boy had of their engines, they were happy to take me along on rides, allowed me to help with the maintenance, etc!

I used to ride in the very GF engine depicted in my photo, and now it's a rusting hulk...

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Dawid,


When I was still a boy, I had the pleasure of riding in the cabs of the two larger of these a number of times, and helping to clean and prepare a couple of them. I will never forget those wonderful days - The drivers were always so impressed with the fanatical knowledge this 8-year-old boy had of their engines, they were happy to take me along on rides, allowed me to help with the maintenance, etc!

I used to ride in the very GF engine depicted in my photo, and now it's a rusting hulk...
Thanks for that wondrous story, bittersweet indeed.

It is so fitting that you are able to record the passing of that GF. It deserves no less.

Best regards,

Doug

[StuartRae]

Hi Dawid,

The drivers were always so impressed with the fanatical knowledge this 8-year-old boy had of their engines, they were happy to take me along on rides, allowed me to help with the maintenance, etc!

Wonderful photos and a great story. I suspect that these days the Health and Safety police would soon put a stop to such activities. Another avenue of pleasure closed to us, as Basil Fawlty would say.

Regards,

Stuart

[Dawid Loubser]

I suspect this is mostly for Doug, but I printed the side-on detail shot of the GEA-class Garratt recently, here it is (excuse the large size, I just have to show off the detail of this):

GEA Side Detail
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/219/4/e/gea_side_detail_by_philosomatographer-d45rnlh.jpg
(Ilford HP5+ film (4x5in) at ISO250, Linhof Technika V, Schneider APO-Symmar 150mm at f/22, hand printed in the darkroom on 12x16in Ilford MG IV paper)

For those not so much into steam engines: The Beyer-Garratt style of locomotive really gave the engineers freedom to build enormous fire boxes that went down almost right to rail level - coupled to exceptionally wide boilers - because the whole boiler unit is slung in-between what is effectively two steam engines. This gave these engine unparalleled ability to operate at "full steam" for (in some regions) hours on end. Most conventional engines cannot operate at full power for so long without losing too much steam pressure, or basically killing the fire.


If I may veer a bit off the topic of this thread, the resolving power of 4x5in film is brutal - here is a small crop of the above image (as printed on paper):

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/219/3/d/gea_side_detail_crop_by_philosomatographer-d45rnw8.jpg

For this type of subject matter, LF film is the way to go for me. I am having massive problems with uneven development using the deep tanks + hangers method, but other than that, large format rocks!

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Dawid,

Lovely! Thanks so much.

Surprised to see "Transnet" on the number plate. I don't remember exactly the history there.

Oh, its a "historic" plate. Ugh.

Thanks again.

Best regards,

Doug

[StuartRae]

Yesterday we visited Soqualmie, home to the Northwest Railway Museum. The museum itself was a bit disappointing, but just down the road several old locos were parked in the sidings. Some had been there for 40 years or more, slowly rusting away. What a shame that such beautiful old machinery should be left to rot.

Conditions weren't ideal, with the path to close to the subjects and a wire fence between me and them. I scrambled up a grass bank but was then on the highway and in danger of being wiped out by a passing Kenworth.

There was another Heisler, this time with the rear drive shaft in place, but with the front, driveshaft and con-rods missing.


http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/heisler-pano.JPG

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1064.jpg


There was also a 3 cylinder gear driven Shey, also with the driveshafts missing.

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1060.jpg

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1073.jpg

Regards,

Stuart

[StuartRae]

As well as a steam powered 'wrecking' crane, used for recovering crashes.

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/Crane-pano.JPG


Regards,

Stuart

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Stuart,

There was another Heisler, this time with the rear drive shaft in place, but with the front, driveshaft and con-rods missing.

Lovely!

Probably a "two-truck" (8 driven wheels), as I don't see the spur gear pair just behind the engine that drives an upper rear shaft leading to the "tender" truck.

There was also a 3 cylinder gear driven Shey, also with the driveshafts missing.

Shay.

Lovely. Note that here all the driven axles are driven directly through (way fat) bevel gears, no side rods involved.

The Shay is really the mother of all geared locomotives (perhaps also the most common).

Thanks so much.

Best regards,

Doug

[StuartRae]

Hi Doug,

Thanks. Sorry about the spelling - I should have checked first.

The Shay was a 3 trucker, but I didn't see any info about the Heisler.

There were lots more, and at the risk of outstaying my welcome, here are a few of them.


http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1047.jpg

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1051.jpg

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1053.jpg

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1056.jpg


Regards,

Stuart

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Stuart,

The Shay was a 3 trucker . . .

Yes, on a Shay you can't tell from the view I had. On a Shay, the rear drive shaft to the second truck just continues on to the third truck if it is powered. Thus there is no special stuff needed near the engine for that situation.

In a Heisler, the drive shafts only go to the "near" axle of the first and second trucks, so the drive shaft to the second truck can't continue to the third truck (it couldn't get past the second axle of the second truck).

So if the third truck is to be powered, there has to be a spur gear setup just behind the engine to drive a second (and higher) rearward shaft that goes (above the second truck) to the third (tender) truck (there is a universal joint there to allow the shaft to angle down to the front axle of the tender truck).

There were lots more, and at the risk of outstaying my welcome, here are a few of them.
All lovely. Thanks so much. I'll see what I can identify. I'm not really a locomotive expert at all. (Everything I know about the Heisler I learned since you showed a picture of what turned out to be one - I had never heard of it before that.)

Best regards,

Doug

[StuartRae]

Well, here's some info about the Shay and #924.

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1069.jpg

http://www.lakelandphotography.net/OPF/IMG_1078.jpg


Regards,

Stuart

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Stuart,

Well, here's some info about the Shay and #924.
Lovely.

Thanks so much.

Best regards,

Doug

[Doug Kerr]

This figure from Heisler's patent on the four-cylinder version of his locomotive shows the spur gear arrangement for driving the third (tender) truck (gears 45, 46):

http://dougkerr.net/illustrations/Heisler_4cyl_01A.gif

(The patent on the basic two-cylinder locomotive illustrates a two-truck version.)

I had said that the drive shafts drive the near axles on the trucks; in fact, they drive the far axles (front axle of the first truck, rear axles of the second and third trucks).

Best regards,

Doug

[Doug Kerr]

In the Heisler locomotive, some clever attention had to be taken to the gearing.

This figure (adapted from a figure in Heisler's patent covering a four-cylinder locomotive but which also introduces the method of driving of the third truck) is a view of the second (rear) truck from above, and shows the bevel gear arrangement by which the first rear drive shaft drives the rear axle of the second truck:

http://dougkerr.net/illustrations/Heisler_4cyl_02-02.gif

Heisler second truck drive

The drive shaft arrives from the right, and is shown starting at the point highlighted by the elliptical outline.

The bevel gear arrangement, incidentally, is enclosed, a more desirable situation than the open bevel gearing used on the Shay locomotive (where the gears can suffer from the intrusion of sand and dirt, and where suitable lubrication is hard to maintain).

Hear, I have adapted that same figure to show the arrangement needed at the first (forward) truck:

http://dougkerr.net/illustrations/Heisler_4cyl_02-04.gif

Heisler first truck drive

Note the mirror image arrangement of the bevel gearing, needed to produce the proper rotation of the driven axle (consistent with that for the second truck), given that both drive shafts rotate in the same direction.

The third truck (tender) is in the same situation as the second truck, but its drive shaft rotates in the opposite direction (owing to its being driven from the engine crankshaft through spur gears). Accordingly, still another orientation of the bevel gearing is required to give proper rotation of the driven axle, as shown in this adaptation of the original figure:

http://dougkerr.net/illustrations/Heisler_4cyl_02-03.gif

Heisler third truck drive

These subtleties are not illuminated in the patent.

A similar situation exists in the Shay locomotive, but there the faces of the driven bevel gears must must all face the same way (to the outside of the locomotive - generally to the right). Thus the proper "sense" of axle rotation needed at the various trucks is obtained by having the driving gears there engage the driven gears always on their forward sides, which for the first truck is the far side and for the second (and third, if applicable) is the near side. (We can see vestiges of the first truck manifestation of this on Stuart's photo of the Shay locomotive, although the drive shaft itself and I think the driving bevel gears as well are gone there.)

Without benefit of the preceding explanation, one might wonder why go to the trouble of supporting the drive shaft so far as to allow the driving gears to engage the driven gears at their front sides, but we have just seen that this has to be done on one or two of the trucks in any case. By making this the front truck, this additional need only occurs on one of the three trucks in a three-truck locomotive.

We can see the complete arrangement on a three-truck Shay locomotive in this photo:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/ClassCShaySonoraJuly2006.jpg
Leonard G: Three-truck Shay locomotive "Sonora"
From Wikipedia: public domain

This is all bush-league mechanical engineering, but you would be amazed at the number of "oh shits" that have occurred in first models of such mechanisms! There have been many similar things in electrical engineering projects.

Best regards,

Doug

[StuartRae]

Hi Doug,

Thank you for the wonderful diagrams; I can spend many happy hours studying such things. When I've located my reading glasses that is. We went out for dinner last night and I had to suffer the indignity of having my son read the menu to me.

Regards,

Stuart

[Doug Kerr]

Stuart Rae, traveling far from home in the American Pacific Northwest, through one of his always-interesting photographs, introduced me to the Heisler geared steam locomotive, with which I had not previously been familiar. Later, Stuart added some photos of the Shay geared locomotives. This all led to a series of discussions from me of the mechanisms of these machines.

By way of completing the circle, I will here briefly mention the third of the three most important types of geared steam locomotive, the Climax locomotive. (How appropriate!)

Here we see a lovely shot of a class B Climax locomotive of the later design of that class:

http://www.gearedsteam.com/climax/images/hillcrest_lbr_9-color.jpg

Photographer unknown: Class B two-truck Climax geared locomotive
From the Geared Steam Locomotive Works Web site

The later Type B Climax and the Type C Climax locomotive had two inclined steam cylinders. They drove a cross shaft which, through either skew or hypoid bevel gearing, drove a longitudinal drive shaft. This in turn, through other sets of skew or hypoid bevel gears, drove both axles of the two or three driven trucks (two in the class B, three in the class C).

Hypoid bevel gearing, the type found in many rear-wheel drive auto differentials and most truck differentials, and its simpler cousin, skew bevel gearing, allows the input shaft to be in a different plane than the output shaft. Thus, in this case, it allows the longitudinal drive shaft to be continuous across all the driven axle shafts (and in fact the engine shaft as well.)

Universal joints were provided in the drive shaft to allow for the articulation of the trucks.

On the class C version, a tender sat on the third driven truck.I believe that in that case the "box" behind the cab was the water tank, the tender being for fuel only.

The catalog of the Climax Manufacturing Company for the Climax geared locomotive (date yet unknown) includes this lovely passage:

The locomotive is equipped complete with all tools and fittings for its operation, including steam brake, steam syphon and suction hose for taking water, two injectors, sight feed lubricator, water gauge try cocks, steam gauge headlight, bell, whistle, pop valve, machinist hammer, pipe wrench, monkey wrench, chisel, punch, oil cans, clinker bar and poker. It is painted, varnished, lettered and numbered as desired.

Best regards,

Doug

[Doug Kerr]

In this lovely illustration from the Climax locomotive catalog (date unknown), we see a typical Climax driven truck:

http://dougkerr.net/illustrations/Climax_02-01.jpg

Note the "mirror image" arrangement of the skew bevel gear sets (used here rather than the more efficient hypoid bevel gears thought to be used in later versions). This is presumably to allow the pinons to both be "outboard", probably to cater to a better arrangement of the local shaft bearings. The gear sets are not enclosed (normal for a Climax locomotive).

We see on the near side one half of the near-side universal joint (cross type, just as usually used in rear-wheel drive automobiles).

We also see the brake cylinder for the truck (but not any of the brake mechanism beyond that).

Neat stuff.

How about those technical illustrators, eh?

Best regards,

Doug

[Doug Kerr]

It appears that perhaps all Climax locomotives used skew bevel gears rather than hypoid bevel gears, and the mentions of hypoid bevel gears were wholly incorrect.

It may be that the person(s)responsible had only seen the hypoid form of non-coplanar axis bevel gearing and assumed that was what was used in the Climax machines.

Best regards,

Doug

[Dawid Loubser]

Doug and Stuart, thank you for the wonderfully detailed information and pictures on types of Locomotives that we never had over here in Africa - fascinating reading. Since childhood the Shay Locomotives have always fascinated me, but I never even knew of the other two types of geared engines.

I don't have anything to contribute to this thread at the moment, other than two extra images from the inside of the GEA Garratt that I posted about earlier:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/269/2/b/taps_in_the_cab_by_philosomatographer-d4ayxiz.jpg
(Olympus OM-3Ti, Zuiko 21mm f/2.0, Kodak TMY400-2 film)

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/269/4/c/gea_cab_controls_by_philosomatographer-d4ayxky.jpg
(Olympus OM-3Ti, Zuiko 21mm f/2.0, Kodak TMY400-2 film)

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Dawid,

Doug and Stuart, thank you for the wonderfully detailed information and pictures on types of Locomotives that we never had over here in Africa - fascinating reading. Since childhood the Shay Locomotives have always fascinated me, but I never even knew of the other two types of geared engines.

I don't have anything to contribute to this thread at the moment, other than two extra images from the inside of the GEA Garratt that I posted about earlier:
Striking photos. They so seem to capture the overall world of the classical steam locomotive.

As a matter of technical interest, the valve handle on the far right in the first pic is labeled (in English) "cylinder cock". Cylinder cocks are valves (there is at least one at each end of each cylinder) used to bleed accumulated waters(steam that has condensed in place) from the cylinder to the atmosphere. It is this operation that results in the streams of visible vapor issuing from the cylinder area when a locomotive is about to get underway and in fact for the first little while as it is moving.

If this water was not released, then during the "compression" part of the cycle (yes, the steam locomotive engine cycle has a compression phase - not useful, as in an internal combustion engine, but rather a side effect of practical valve systems) the water, being incompressible, would block piston motion (suddenly, possibly with the consequence of damage to the machine).

This arrangement seems to be for a "direct" cylinder cock system - the motion of the handle is conducted by a system of long shafts connected by gearboxes and/or universal joints to the valve itself, which is at the cylinder.

Many locomotives have power cylinder cocks. Here, the valves themselves are worked by small double-acting cylinders driven by compressed air or steam. They are controlled by lever-operated control valves in the cab. This eliminates the complicated mechanical arrangement, and in fact allows a more robust valve to be used.

I was unable to make out the marking on the second handle. I suspect the third one is the second cylinder cock for this side (cylinder).

I have to reflect some more on the interesting set of stuff shown in the second photo.

Again, thanks so much for these great pix.

Best regards,

Doug

[Dawid Loubser]

Hi Doug,

I believe the second valve you see is the Ejector valve. I am glad you like my images - the last two that I have posted are a bit more "boring" than the rest, but film is hard work either way. The Zuiko 21mm f/2.0 is an extraordinary lens for capturing these sort of images (on 35mm film, in anyway - steam engines just cry out for larger formats, most of the time).

Thank you for your explanation of the Cylinder Cock valve (I should have added that)!

[scott kirkpatrick]

Just noticed this thread. A few years ago I was in West Virginia and went to see the geared engines at Cass. They have 5 or 6 engines from coal mining service, of which two Shays and (I believe) one Climax are in regular operation, and the wreck of a Heisler is also awaiting further restoration. Here are the running examples:
http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010222.jpg
Two Shays

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010203small.jpg
and the Climax.

Doug do you recognize these?

Scott

[scott kirkpatrick]

The flex coupling for the Shay's driveshaft:

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010214small.jpg

and a close-up of the drive cylinders on the #4 Shay:

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010190small.jpg

scott

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Scott,

Lovelyl Thanks so much.

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010203small.jpg
and the Climax.

I think that is the Heisler.

A Climax looks like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Fruit_Growers_Number_3.jpg/800px-Fruit_Growers_Number_3.jpg

Doug do you recognize these?

I know that line is often quoted in connection with geared locomotives.

Thanks again.

Best regards,

Doug

[scott kirkpatrick]

The Cass operation is a West Virginia state park. There is a very interesting website with details, history (both of the original line and of the restoration efforts) at http://www.cassrailroad.com, and more pictures. Heisler #6 (in my picture) was the last Heisler locomotive sold, and apparently ran on the west coast. Cass was a lumber operation, and the various rail lines that existed were all owned or controlled by the West Virginia Pulp and Paper Co. According to the website, they are making progress on restoring the Climax, which was a pile of parts when I visited in 2008. They now have 12 miles of line restored and used in their tourist operations.

The geared engines are really slow, but carry enormous loads single-handed down twisty narrow-guage tracks usually to a mill at the road's end. The Cass mill was also enormous, but burned down leaving only a (picturesque) ruin:

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010185small.jpg

The Green Bank radio telescope provides some employment to this part of WV, but most of its 20th century history seems to be receding into the mist, like this drive-in:


http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010322small.jpg

The classic images that I have in my head from O W Link's pictures of the Norfolk and Western line's Pocahontas routes (the county that Cass is in) are hard to find today. Next time I get to that area, I will try to visit Iaeger and locate the site of the Drive-in picture he took there. A rephotographic study showing the former drive-in site and a diesel freight hustling along the background with a hundred or so coal cars would be a great trophy. Now where can I get ahold of a Buick Roadmaster convertible to fix in the foreground...?

Google maps shows no trace of the drive-in site, but the tracks are still there, with mile-long coal car trains parked on several of them.

scott

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Scott,

Thanks for the further insight.

Wondrous photos, all.

Best regards,

Doug

[Asher Kelman]

Just noticed this thread. A few years ago I was in West Virginia and went to see the geared engines at Cass. They have 5 or 6 engines from coal mining service, of which two Shays and (I believe) one Climax are in regular operation, and the wreck of a Heisler is also awaiting further restoration. Here are the running examples:
http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010222.jpg
Two Shays

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~kirk/testfiles/L1010203small.jpg
and the Climax.

Doug do you recognize these?

Scott

This thread is glorious! There must be superb steam trains still going in Australia, the U.K. the European continent. Looking forward to more of these charming monsters!

Asher :)


Don't miss out on Stuart Rae's veteran locomotive from the U.K., here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14665)

[Jarmo Juntunen]

Indeed there are, Asher! Here's the Jacobite leaving Mallaig towards Ft William (Scotland):


http://jjuntunen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Skotlanti_2011/Matkaan_Mallaigista-6415.jpg/_img900.jpg

[Jarmo Juntunen]

...and here she is again, this time with Ben Nevis:

http://jjuntunen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Skotlanti_2011/2011_06_24_The_Jacobite-7342.jpg/_img900.jpg

[Jarmo Juntunen]

However, my personal favourite Jacobite themed picture is this one (sorry, this is a repost but oh well):


Laura Aboard the Jacobite

http://jjuntunen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Skotlanti_2011/2011_06_13_junassa-6317.jpg/_img900.jpg