Michael_Stones
Member
Early one morning ...
Cheers
Mike
Cheers
Mike
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A lull on the battleground for survival
- Thread starter Michael_Stones
- Start date
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Early one morning ...
Cheers
Mike
Fascinating. Yesterday, walking with my 3 1/2 year old grandson, a similar web with sparkling water drops asked for its picture to be taken. We promised to return but went to Menche's for ice cream instead!
Asher
Joachim Bolte
New member
Nice picture, but in my opinion it's a bit of an 'in between' thing in terms of contrast and color. Not really colorfull enough to be interesting, and not really contrasty enough to make a good B&W. I took the liberty of cooking up two versions, one with enhanced colors, and one as a B&W. The JPG isn't very good in quality, so the result is a bit blotchy but should give an idea of what I was after...
Edits of original picture (above), saturated color (middle) and B&W (bottom)
Edits of original picture (above), saturated color (middle) and B&W (bottom)
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Joachim,
i like your approach. The color enhancement s certainly more pleasant! However the water drops need to be dominant. One way is to sharpen individual major droplets more than the background.
Asher
i like your approach. The color enhancement s certainly more pleasant! However the water drops need to be dominant. One way is to sharpen individual major droplets more than the background.
Asher
Michael_Stones
Member
Hi Joachim and Asher. Joachim, your thinking about post-processing paralleled my own, and many many thanks for presenting the two alternatives. I tried both approaches you suggested but ended up not entirely satisfied. Dissatisfaction with the version posted, which has only a 'levels' adjustment, was a reason for requesting a critique.
So here's my thinking after the two critiques and I'd much appreciate further commentary.
Some photographs are standouts because of artistic/technical merit. This image is not one of them for the reasons Joachim provided. Post-processing cannot elevate it to be a standout, stand-alone picture, in my opinion. On the other hand, what made me keep returning to it was the 'idea' that it represents. It evoked, in me, thoughts of WW1 trench warfare - the spider's web representing barbed wire against a backdrop (excuse the pun) of poison gas and desolation - with the bleakness of the original consistent with that idea. But because of the raindrops, the potency for harm is nullified - the spider's web will not capture any flies until it dries. Hence the title of a lull in hostilities. An often cited example of such a lull was an Xmas Day game of football (soccer) between British and German soldiers in the 'no man's' land between the respective sets of trenches. The following day, they resumed efforts to kill each other.
So my thoughts about furthering the image are to montage diffuse outlines of military involvement behind the spider's web. Not sure what they should be, as yet, but welcome ideas. I'd also welcome opinion about this approach to photography, which locates the primal image secondary to the idea it represents.
Cheers, Mike
So here's my thinking after the two critiques and I'd much appreciate further commentary.
Some photographs are standouts because of artistic/technical merit. This image is not one of them for the reasons Joachim provided. Post-processing cannot elevate it to be a standout, stand-alone picture, in my opinion. On the other hand, what made me keep returning to it was the 'idea' that it represents. It evoked, in me, thoughts of WW1 trench warfare - the spider's web representing barbed wire against a backdrop (excuse the pun) of poison gas and desolation - with the bleakness of the original consistent with that idea. But because of the raindrops, the potency for harm is nullified - the spider's web will not capture any flies until it dries. Hence the title of a lull in hostilities. An often cited example of such a lull was an Xmas Day game of football (soccer) between British and German soldiers in the 'no man's' land between the respective sets of trenches. The following day, they resumed efforts to kill each other.
So my thoughts about furthering the image are to montage diffuse outlines of military involvement behind the spider's web. Not sure what they should be, as yet, but welcome ideas. I'd also welcome opinion about this approach to photography, which locates the primal image secondary to the idea it represents.
Cheers, Mike
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Charlotte should chime in at this point. She is good at fusing ideas!
Asher
Asher
Doug Kerr
Well-known member
Hi, Michael,
John used to do a benefit concert almost every year for a conservation organization Carla and I were with in East Dallas.
Every year, "Christmas in the Trenches" was perhaps the most requested of his songs. It is touching beyond belief. Everyone there knew the opening words: "My name is Francis Tolliver , I come from Liverpool. . ."
The story of the song can be found here on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_in_the_Trenches
You can see John performing the song here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJi41RWaTCs
The lyrics are here:
http://www.worldwar1.com/sfcitt.htm
John is an amazing fellow, a wonderful songwriter, musician, and storyteller, and quite a philosopher. At one point he decided to have a "baseball player trading card" made for himself. On the stats portion, it said:
Hits: right; throws: right; leans: left.
Best regards,
Doug
This supposedly true story is captured in the song "Christmas in the Trenches" by folk singer (and much more) John McCutcheon.
John used to do a benefit concert almost every year for a conservation organization Carla and I were with in East Dallas.
Every year, "Christmas in the Trenches" was perhaps the most requested of his songs. It is touching beyond belief. Everyone there knew the opening words: "My name is Francis Tolliver , I come from Liverpool. . ."
The story of the song can be found here on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_in_the_Trenches
You can see John performing the song here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJi41RWaTCs
The lyrics are here:
http://www.worldwar1.com/sfcitt.htm
John is an amazing fellow, a wonderful songwriter, musician, and storyteller, and quite a philosopher. At one point he decided to have a "baseball player trading card" made for himself. On the stats portion, it said:
Hits: right; throws: right; leans: left.
Best regards,
Doug
Michael_Stones
Member
Hi Doug
I hadn't hear (or heard of) the song, so thanks for informing me. The legendary football game is described in the obituary of one of the players.
http://www.economist.com/node/718781?story_id=718781
Cheers
Mike
I hadn't hear (or heard of) the song, so thanks for informing me. The legendary football game is described in the obituary of one of the players.
http://www.economist.com/node/718781?story_id=718781
Cheers
Mike
Cem_Usakligil
Well-known member
Hi Doug,
Thanks a lot for sharing this, I have had goosebumps listening to the song.
Cem_Usakligil
Well-known member
Hi Michael,
There you have it, knowing precisely what the image can or cannot do and what your intentions with it are. I concur with you. Take a look at the many WW I images on the net, ones showing landscapes of trenches, barbed wires and exploding grenades, etc. Plese show us if you execute your plans.
Doug Kerr
Well-known member
Michael_Stones
Member
Doug
I watched the You Tube this morning, very moving it was, too.
Cem
Thanks for your encouragement. I'll post the next version when it's completed.
Regards
Mike
I watched the You Tube this morning, very moving it was, too.
Cem
Thanks for your encouragement. I'll post the next version when it's completed.
Regards
Mike
Charlotte Thompson
Well-known member
This thread is interesting in its metaphor of the web and each idea here has great merit- an overlay could convey this deeply but the feeling of the artist/overlay which could/would be me in this instance would carry a deep feeling of struggle within the web- as for struggle for life and how potent it is in every living thing would have his own ideas about war and trenches humanity etc. thanks Asher for sending the thread- I know that when I do overlay work each piece of photo on photo/shading/crop etc must come out within a central emotion but that is me- I am visual and emotive in this type of art which is deeply natural for me in this respect.
Charlotte-
Charlotte-
Dwayne Oakes
New member
Great little scene that just needs a little mood booster.
good
-classic slight blur DOF tree line
-great detail in the web
-the bare stick adds to the mood
-exposure and contrast are all good
nit
-the slope (not sure of its purpose)
-black and white (excels at showing textures, not much texture in this photo
other than the stick) to many smooth surfaces.
tweak
-straightened the photo (at a cost of some crop lost)
-added a blue Duotone tint which (excels as a mood booster)
-dodge (lightened) some of the larger water droplets a tad to enhance them
-put the photo through NR software to smooth out the photo
-added tad of global USM sharpening to get over the AA filter
Hope this helps and thanks for posting !
Take care,
Dwayne Oakes
good
-classic slight blur DOF tree line
-great detail in the web
-the bare stick adds to the mood
-exposure and contrast are all good
nit
-the slope (not sure of its purpose)
-black and white (excels at showing textures, not much texture in this photo
other than the stick) to many smooth surfaces.
tweak
-straightened the photo (at a cost of some crop lost)
-added a blue Duotone tint which (excels as a mood booster)
-dodge (lightened) some of the larger water droplets a tad to enhance them
-put the photo through NR software to smooth out the photo
-added tad of global USM sharpening to get over the AA filter
Hope this helps and thanks for posting !
Take care,
Dwayne Oakes
Last edited by a moderator:
Doug Kerr
Well-known member
Last edited:
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Nice picture, but in my opinion it's a bit of an 'in between' thing in terms of contrast and color. Not really colorfull enough to be interesting, and not really contrasty enough to make a good B&W. I took the liberty of cooking up two versions, one with enhanced colors, and one as a B&W. The JPG isn't very good in quality, so the result is a bit blotchy but should give an idea of what I was after...
Edits of original picture (above), saturated color (middle) and B&W (bottom)
Joachim,
The Great War of world war one was a drab, rotten sorcery dispensed as patriotism to millions young men wasted in the trenches across Europe, France to the Dardanelles.
I'm not sure that the picture has to be "refined".
Asher
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Early one morning ...
Cheers
Mike
Dwayne,
Your work is especially moody and everything is justified and smoothed to work coherently. Those skills of yours are very good. The result holds together. Excellent work in itself.
However, my thinking is that the original is to me a better fit to the untidiness and melancholic disorder of the broadest ground warfare in the history of man. Perhaps the focus is correctly, not on the web, but the emptiness beyond it.
Others will have their own take. Which presentation represents the situation and sickness of the time better and why?
Asher
Rachel Foster
New member
I love it, but did I miss the exif data?
Mike Shimwell
New member
Michael
Just a quick note to say that your picture and title immediately conveyed al that you late rdescribed. I wouldn't seek to refine the image - it needs neither boosted colours or monochrome or glitzy treatment to acheve your end. It does need a viewer famiiar with the idea of mud and rain and death in the trenches.
Best
Mike
Just a quick note to say that your picture and title immediately conveyed al that you late rdescribed. I wouldn't seek to refine the image - it needs neither boosted colours or monochrome or glitzy treatment to acheve your end. It does need a viewer famiiar with the idea of mud and rain and death in the trenches.
Best
Mike
Michael_Stones
Member
Thanks Dwayne for your superb work on the photo; I'm in total admiration of your skills. Thanks also to Asher and Mike for the comments, with which, upon reflection, I've come to agree. As a picture, the photo isn't much, just a snapshot while walking the dogs one morning. But seeing it on the monitor elicited lasting thoughts and emotions about WW1, trench warfare, poison gas, barbed wire, rats feasting on corpses and my uncle John Francis Harry who survived the war for only a few days before succumbing near his last trench. He was just a kid, barely out of his teens. Not a futile death according to a brass remembrance plaque the War Department sent to my grandparents. "He Died for Freedom and Honour", it said so on the plaque. Much better than the mere scroll "kindly" King George sent to Pink Floyd's Roger Waters mother on the death of her husband at Anzio in WW2, which the king signed with "his own rubber stamp". <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm82kwaaGVw>
A photo I've always been in awe of is Roger Fenton's Valley of the Shadow of Death. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/morris/match2-large.jpg. Like the spider's web photo, it aimed to evoke feeling by showing nothing more than the context.
fahim mohammed
Well-known member
Michael, lovely with the sight and smell of early morning.
Instinctive work of the greatest architect!! No maths but a greater work than all the engineers and mathematicians put together ( imho ).
Best.
Instinctive work of the greatest architect!! No maths but a greater work than all the engineers and mathematicians put together ( imho ).
Best.
Michael_Stones
Member
Thanks Fahim, I appreciate the comment. It was a lovely spring morning. The delicacy and harmony of the raindrops on web the are beyond our ability to create, I agree.
Cheers
Mike
Cheers
Mike
Mark Hampton
New member
Michael,
I follow Asher, mike, dwayen and Fahim - it has a feeling in it - it needs only more works of this quaility - i have a lot of time for this image - beautiful sad burn..
Fentons work ... stark ... dark
cheers
Michael_Stones
Member
Thank you, Mark
Mike
Mike