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View Full Version : Chuck: Can we have a firmware update for 5d?


rameshpkumar
June 3rd, 2006, 05:36 AM
Chuck,
I know that for some people the print button on 5d is useful, but for most
>90% that is a useless button. Can we have a firmware update for these:

1. Being able to program the print button too? Or a custom function to assign Mirror Lock Up to Print button

2. Have "Rotate on Computer and not on camera" function like what we have on 30d.

Other members who support this thread voice your opinion.

Thanks
Ramesh
www.world-of-photos.com

Mark Colston
June 3rd, 2006, 05:46 AM
And not just the 5D - how about the 350D too? I will never use the print button - although it is also the illuminate display button too - but there must be away thats quicker than the menu's?

Michael Tapes
June 4th, 2006, 06:21 AM
As was practice in the RG forums......

We should not be addressing posts to Chuck. He is well aware of this request, and he has promised to monitor the forum. So let's please refrains from addressing him directly. Thanks..

Of course I also agree with the suggestion for the Print Button!

Chuck Westfall(Canon USA)
June 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM
Hi, Ramesh:

Thanks for the suggestions. I will be happy include them in our monthly feedback report.

Best Regards,

Chuck Westfall
Director/Media & Customer Relationship
Camera Marketing Group/Canon U.S.A., Inc.

Doug Kerr
June 5th, 2006, 01:56 PM
Dear Santa,

It would be so nice if on the 5D, . .

Oh, never mind.

Best regards,

Doug

Tom Wilk
June 5th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Dear Santa,

It would be so nice if on the 5D, . .

....would land in my camera bag. Oh wait, it already did. Wasn't free, though. :)

Kim Fullbrook
June 6th, 2006, 05:01 AM
While we're suggesting simple enhancements for the 5D I'd like to see two things:
1) The Info (histogram) screen for each image display the lens used for the shot. There is plenty of space to do this and the info is already in the EXIF. If that's too hard, just the the focal length used will do.
2) Display the current ISO in-use on the top LCD all the time. It shouldn't be necessary to push a button to see it.

dhphoto
June 6th, 2006, 08:35 AM
If we are on the subject, please could we have the option of a big histogram on the lovely big screen?

Seems such a shame to build such a wonderful camera as the 5D and have all that wasted space around the pic/histo

David

SteveO
June 6th, 2006, 04:05 PM
I second the ability to use the Print button as a mirror lock-up button. Also, I too would love a "huge" histogram; in fact, I'd like to be able to turn off picture preview and ONLY have a histogram!

Steve

durangojim
June 6th, 2006, 05:17 PM
Great post,
I'd like to see the ability on my 5D to automatically rotate the picture only on the computer as opposed to the lcd and computer like the 30D can do. I'd also agree with the above posts in letting us choose what the print button does. Mirror lock sounds good and so does letting us swich from RAW to another format. Thanks Chuck for all the hard work.

Tom Yi
June 6th, 2006, 11:34 PM
The feature I'd like to see most on a 5D is a lower price, along $1700 to better match the Nikon D200 and the upcoming 10MP Pentax. I'm dying to upgrade my backup XT to a 5D or it's replacement but can't justify the cost.

Tom Yi
August 7th, 2006, 08:31 PM
The print button already has a second feature.
If you pick Custom function that allows zooming in during review, then you have to press the print and the magnification button at the same time to zoom in during the image review.

This is different from image playback where you only have to press the magnification button to magnify the image.

Roger Lambert
August 8th, 2006, 06:08 AM
The firmware update I would most like to see:

would be an increase in the number of images allowed in automatic exposure bracketing. Currently, the camera is limited to three.

This is not enough if you are planning to do blended exposures in the evening or when the sun is involved. With only three exposures you must physically touch the camera to reset it for the next batch of exposures, which can misalign the blends, and thereby ruin the entire series.

The only option available now is to tether the camera to a laptop computer and buy third-party software - a huge expense and inconvenience to say the least.

Considering that that the D200 - if not other even less expensive cameras - offer this feature - it is time for the Canon range to incorporate it as well.

HDR and blended exposure photography is here to stay and truly requires it.

Thanks! :)

Asher Kelman
August 10th, 2006, 01:28 PM
I second that request!

How many bracket shots are needed? What software do you use now?

Asher

John_Schwaller
August 10th, 2006, 02:47 PM
To my knowledge, Canon has used firmware updates to fix problems, but never to provide updates/changes to functions.

These requests remind me, if I remember correctly, of the story about trying to teaching a pig to sing....both parties are frustrated. :-)

John

Stan Jirman
August 10th, 2006, 02:54 PM
I use the PFn to set bracketing to 5 shots. Then I can turn the PFn on and off on the camera without the use of a computer, and thus I can switch between 3 and 5. That's pretty lame compared to Nikon, but I guess it's better than being trapped with 5.

The whole PFn business, and the fact that you can't truly change them in the camera, is what drives me most nuts about the 1-series. It's not that they omitted a feature that I may or may not like; they gave it to me alright, I just have no way to change it. Grrr.

Roger Lambert
August 11th, 2006, 08:39 AM
I second that request!

How many bracket shots are needed? What software do you use now?

Asher

Hi Asher

I have not purchased any third party software.

Breeze systems makes a $99 program and I think there is another one out there for half of that. I think I have seen the other one (?), which lets you control every aspect of your camera - every button you could push on it - via your laptop while the camera is tethered to it. I believe it will automatically do up to 15 exposures with MLU for you.

How many are needed? Hard to say! 15 should certainly be sufficient. :D

What is maddening to me is that I don't have a laptop. I do have a 2-year-old Windows-based PDA though. Who wants to lug a laptop around, just to do blends?

Who wants to buy a program for their $2500 5D that Nikon puts into their less expensive cams?

The Breeze program is useful for Wedding, sports photogs, because the tether allows instant viewing of images at site for clients.

Best regards,

Roger

Alexandru Petrescu
August 18th, 2006, 11:44 AM
I think there's a problem with Daylight Savings Time, EOS Utility 1.0 on Windows XP/SP2 and EOS 5D firmware 1.1.0 (previous fir too). Namely, if the DST is used on PC then EOS Utility will force time - 1 hour on camera, and this is the time that gets into exif. EOS Utility will however show the right time if querying in the Remote Capture tool (hammer&key icon).

If I uncheck the DST on Windows (clock in tray) and manually reduce the PC time by one hour, then EOS Utility will not force the 5D time into minus one hour. However, my PC is synced over the Internet with NTP and that respects DST. So if I force non-DST on Windows then Windows will later reduce its hour by one and later connections to 5D it will again reduce its hour.

It may be debatable whether it's a Microsoft or a Canon issue, but I'd really like to use Windows XP built-in DST and NTP (network time protocol), and EOS Utility to show exactly the same time that appears in camera (not one hour difference).

Ideally, a built-in GPS would be wonderful, but that won't happen soon I believe...

Alex

Alexandru Petrescu
August 18th, 2006, 12:20 PM
On 5D, CFn1 "SET function when shooting" can have five values; when one presses the SET button it can: (0) do nothing, (1) change quality raw/jpeg, (2) change style, (3) display menu on LCD and (4) replay image on LCD.

Options 2, 3 and 4 will show something on the big LCD while 1 (change quality) will only show stuff on the top small lcd. It would be great if this option (Change Quality) could show on the big LCD too upon pressing the SET button, because the big LCD info is more expressive than the info on top lcd and because all other options display on big LCD too.

Alex

Alexandru Petrescu
August 20th, 2006, 06:41 AM
It seems DST was fixed by a June update to EOS Utility...

James Masi
August 30th, 2006, 02:02 PM
This would be ideal!! Mirror lock-up is a major PITA on thse cameras. It is simply ludicrous to have it buried deep in the menu system. IO can't see ANYONE buying a 5D and actually using the ridiculous "Print" button. It would be MUCH better served as a mirror lock-up button.


Chuck,
I know that for some people the print button on 5d is useful, but for most
>90% that is a useless button. Can we have a firmware update for these:

1. Being able to program the print button too? Or a custom function to assign Mirror Lock Up to Print button

Don Lashier
August 30th, 2006, 02:06 PM
I can't see ANYONE buying a 5D and actually using the ridiculous "Print" button. It would be MUCH better served as a mirror lock-up button.
That print button has become a running joke on many forums. I can't believe Canon is so out of touch (they're so savvy in other regards).

- DL

Nikolai Sklobovsky
August 30th, 2006, 02:28 PM
If I may, I'd like to join the prayers and ask for the same in 30D.
It also features this - I don't know what adjective shall I use, let's say "most useless" - button taking camera's control panel real estate doing nothing.

Mirror lockup, any other (but preferebly customizable) custom function, direct ISO access - anything, but stupid (OK, I said it out loud:-) Print...

Thank you Santa!

John Sheehy
September 21st, 2006, 05:23 AM
Dear Santa,

Yes, Dear Santa,

It is impossible for a person wishing to get optimal exposure to do so using the tools in the camera, as the camera histograms are based on the JPEG parameters, which have little to do with the RAW capture, which is where exposure matters to the RAW shooter. Most people under-expose their image, resulting in needless data, because of this JPEG-level feedback. A RAW RGB histogram with very clear clipping indication (not like the nearly invisible thin dotted line for maxvalue on my 20D's JPEG histogram), complete with flashing of clipped highlights on the JPEG review image, in color, at least as an option (IOW, alternating black with red, green, blue, magenta, cyan, yellow, or white depending on which color channels clip).

None of your 1/3-stop "in-between" ISOs seem to be real; they are either an extra stage of low-gain amplification before digitization, or mathematical exposure compensation. Please give an option in the camera to turn them off, if they're going to be EC controls, under the hood. ANyone who knows what they're doing probably won't use them, once they realize what they are, and they are a nuisance to dial through.

Please implement auto-ISO, at least for manual exposure mode in future models. An EC control would be necessary, just like it is now for AE modes. When a person has elected to turn off any non-optimized ISOs as mentioned above, resort to a list of user preferences for obtaining EC for full exposure, such as:

1. Av +1/3 stop
2. Tv +1/3 stop
3. 0
4. 0
5. Av +1/3 stop
6. Tv +1/3 stop
7. Tv +1/3 stop
8. Tv +1/3 stop

The first two would be used to adjust the relative exposure granularity at all ISOs except the highest. The rest are a list of what to do for failed exposure at the highest ISO; in this case, I want to under-expose by 2/3 stop before I start opening the lens and lengthening the exposure.

Or, better yet, just allow the user to supply user-program modes that are lists of Tv, Av, and ISO values for metered EV values. Again, an EC control would be needed here, to adjust for scene key and contrast, as we can do now in AE modes. It can offset the EV value before consulting the list.

Frankly, the current modes of exposure are archaic and film-based. It takes too much time away from following your subject, focus, and composition to try to maximize everything on the fly. Why can't I have a way of shooting that doesn't stop the lens down too far, but won't result in blurred images in low light, like Av-pri does now?

Please stop doing math on RAW data after it is digitized. It is more valueable as-is, than mathematically manipulated to meet a standard. Who cares if the image is 0.05 stops under-exposed? No need to posterize the data, and clip away highlghts, however lightly, to compensate.

Kevin Bjorke
September 21st, 2006, 10:34 PM
I can't see ANYONE buying a 5D and actually using the ridiculous "Print" button.Canon sells printers.

Bart_van_der_Wolf
September 23rd, 2006, 03:25 AM
Please stop doing math on RAW data after it is digitized. It is more valueable as-is, than mathematically manipulated to meet a standard. Who cares if the image is 0.05 stops under-exposed? No need to posterize the data, and clip away highlghts, however lightly, to compensate.

Yes, I agree with that. Raw-only shouldn't be mathematically crippled.
JPEG or Raw+JPEG is a different thing, because some workflows depend on in-camera JPEG generation.

As for (auto) ISO/exposure, it would be nice to have a (sort of bracketing option) mode that takes a second image based on 'zero' clipping of the earlier image. That would give an automatic "expose to the right" possibility. If one wants to allow specular highlight clipping, exposure compensation would facillitate it.

Bart

John Sheehy
September 23rd, 2006, 10:42 AM
Yes, I agree with that. Raw-only shouldn't be mathematically crippled.
JPEG or Raw+JPEG is a different thing, because some workflows depend on in-camera JPEG generation.

Even then, the camera could just keep a note to itself and/or in the RAW metadata that the RAW needs to be scaled in conversion. Think of the 10D's ISO 3200; it was actually the same RAW levels for the same absolute exposure as ISO 1600. Therefore, every converter somehow knew that the data had to be scaled for conversion; perhaps the metadata had a whitepoint or scaling figure in it.

As for (auto) ISO/exposure, it would be nice to have a (sort of bracketing option) mode that takes a second image based on 'zero' clipping of the earlier image. That would give an automatic "expose to the right" possibility. If one wants to allow specular highlight clipping, exposure compensation would facillitate it.

That could be useful, but for timing-critical shooting, I don't know if it would help much. I shoot a lot of small birds, and windows of opportunity often last milliseconds with them.

How is the usenet digital slr group doing? The computer I had my newsreader on stopped booting, so I started doing my internet stuff on this one, and tried Xnews, but it lost track of everything I read when I shut it and re-opened it, so I didn't bother with it anymore. The other computer is salvagable, I think, but that lost its urgency after a couple of days.

Bart_van_der_Wolf
September 23rd, 2006, 02:15 PM
How is the usenet digital slr group doing?

Pretty much the same, a few helpful knowledgable posters amidst a lot of newbies and a couple of obnoxious characters. As always, one has to look for a gem or two amongst the rest.

In general the contributions from Roger N. Clark and David Martindale on various subjects are worth reading, I like their professional/scientific approach and Roger also produces nice nature/landscape images as a bonus. If you Google for "rec.photo.*" groups with their surnames as author you won't waste much time.

Bart

Pawel Woj
February 12th, 2007, 10:00 AM
How about ISO always lit up in the viewfinder?? since its already there how hard can it be to enable this ?

Asher Kelman
February 12th, 2007, 10:55 AM
How about someone running a numbered updated list of 5D firmaware wishes and then we can talk from there in a new thread? start list wth 5D_001.

Maybe we'd discuss it a while to fine tune it and have a poll. I'm not sure how one votes. For competing items, its easy.

Asher

Jack Joseph Jr
February 12th, 2007, 05:59 PM
I think that Canon corporate, as opposed to Canon Chuck, couldn't give a rat's behind about what users think of those dumb print buttons (and the lack of a dedicated mirror lockup button). Corporate thinks that they are going to sell printers because of that button.

To be honest I would like to replace my Epson R800, the Ink Eating Monster, with a Canon printer. If I did I would probably use my 5D's print button a few times to fiddle with the software. But after that forget it, even Canon JPGs look much better after a visit to ACR4. For event on-site printing do they think I'd use my camera instead of Express Digital Darkroom? Not a chance.

Come on Canon!

PS. Even the simple request for the don't rotate on the LCD but apply orientation to the image for the 1D Mark II N and 5D has gone unanswered. Do we have to wait for Nikon to offer better sensors in their feature-rich bodies?

Alan Rew
June 1st, 2007, 02:21 PM
Chuck,
I know that for some people the print button on 5d is useful, but for most
>90% that is a useless button. Can we have a firmware update for these:

1. Being able to program the print button too? Or a custom function to assign Mirror Lock Up to Print button

2. Have "Rotate on Computer and not on camera" function like what we have on 30d.

Other members who support this thread voice your opinion.

Thanks
Ramesh
www.world-of-photos.com

I'd vote for being able to assign the 'print' button to mirror lock-up. Maybe an extra custom function - and once you've programmed that in, why not assign several possible settings via that one custom function?

The 5D is a bit like a 'consumer' level camera if you look at some the features it has and the way it is sold:
1) Print button.
2) 'Dummy Mode' green rectangle on the mode dial.
3) Sold in 'kit' form with one or more lenses.

Are Canon's marketing department aiming this camera at rich novices?

BTW I requested the option of a RAW histogram on the old RobGalbraith forums, an idea which a few other people (including Andrew Rodney) expressed enthusiasm for, but Chuck rejected the idea at the time as not being very useful (I can't remember his exact words but that seemed to be the essence of it).
I'd bet that more 5D users would use a RAW histogram than a print button :-)

Regards,

Alan

John Sheehy
June 1st, 2007, 04:36 PM
BTW I requested the option of a RAW histogram on the old RobGalbraith forums, an idea which a few other people (including Andrew Rodney) expressed enthusiasm for, but Chuck rejected the idea at the time as not being very useful (I can't remember his exact words but that seemed to be the essence of it).
I'd bet that more 5D users would use a RAW histogram than a print button :-)

Not just 5D; any camera that shoots RAW should have a RAW histogram. Camera makers are pathetically out of touch with the needs of their users. Nothing is more relevant when choosing exposure than the RAW results; it matters not a whit what color space you want to use, what the white balance is, what saturation and color tone settings you set the camera to; the RAW data, unless it is clipped (or in the upper highlights of the lowest ISO of some cameras) is totally linear, and is best recorded close to RAW saturation, even if this involves changing the color of the lighting to optimize the individual channels. People shooting things like red flowers in deep shade literally under-expose the RAW data by 3 or more stops satisfying the JPEG/histogram!

Bart_van_der_Wolf
June 2nd, 2007, 04:51 AM
... any camera that shoots RAW should have a RAW histogram.

I beg to differ. A Raw data histogram will usually have most of its information bunched up to the left of the histogram, with a long low tail to the right. The scaling of such would still not allow to judge highlight clipping, which actually is what we do need.

It would already be very helpful if there would be a per channel clipping indicator. It could take many forms, a blinking dot alongside the gamma adjusted histogram would already suffice but one could think of more informative displays like a percentage or absolute number of saturated sensels. It's a longtime wanted feature. Being able to zoom-in on the image and see the affected output pixels blink, would be the pits, but that would require Raw processing while zooming which slows down the operation.

Bart

Alan Rew
June 4th, 2007, 04:48 AM
I beg to differ. A Raw data histogram will usually have most of its information bunched up to the left of the histogram, with a long low tail to the right. The scaling of such would still not allow to judge highlight clipping, which actually is what we do need.

It would already be very helpful if there would be a per channel clipping indicator. It could take many forms, a blinking dot alongside the gamma adjusted histogram would already suffice but one could think of more informative displays like a percentage or absolute number of saturated sensels. It's a longtime wanted feature. Being able to zoom-in on the image and see the affected output pixels blink, would be the pits, but that would require Raw processing while zooming which slows down the operation.

Bart

That's an interesting point. But, in that case, how about a histogram showing the saturation distribution of the 'sensels'? i.e. how many are 100% saturated, how many 99%, how many 98%, ... down to the noise floor at '0%'.

But I like your idea of just a count/percentage of saturated (=> may be clipping) sensels, which is the minimum info we're after that we currently don't get from the camera.

If somebody sets their camera to shoot RAW or RAW+jpeg there ought to be a custom function to choose the RAW-based display instead of the jpeg-based display we currently get.

Does anyone have any other ideas about the RAW data could be presented?