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1DSMKIII Early news

P

Paul Bestwick

pro member
"Canon senior engineer, Taki Somoishe, stated today in Las Vegas that the new Mark III Ds will ship in November in time for Christmas season. A 22mp full frame sensor with a new high speed chip coded Digic IV model. The camera will have a burst rate of 7 frames per second. The camera will not have a view screen similar to the 10 frame D model. The Mark III Ds will capture images in Jpeg, Raw and now tiff. More info to be announced in March"

There was general surprise that Taki said what he did at the conference...

" Although the 1D3 is an amazing camera, it's low on on pixels. New technology should allow 10 per second with at least 14mp "



Cheers,

Paul
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Paul Bestwick said:
"Canon senior engineer, Taki Somoishe, stated today in Las Vegas that the new Mark III Ds will ship in November in time for Christmas season. A 22mp full frame sensor with a new high speed chip coded Digic IV model. The camera will have a burst rate of 7 frames per second. The camera will not have a view screen similar to the 10 frame D model. The Mark III Ds will capture images in Jpeg, Raw and now tiff. More info to be announced in March"

There was general surprise that Taki said what he did at the conference...

" Although the 1D3 is an amazing camera, it's low on on pixels. New technology should allow 10 per second with at least 14mp "



Cheers,

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul, where is the original source of this quote? These are the facts as best I know them from a number odf. Canon has made a number of 1Ds >20MP models. As of April 2006 there were two models full frame. A 21 and a 24 MP camera. Each was 12 bit at the time.

Now it is likely that there have been other models too. As I methioned previously canon can go from zero to top speed in 3 months and deliver a new camera. That's how good they are. They are constantly doing versioning as they test out a new possible part of a new system. Canon had no need to bring out the 1DIII but could have last year. The 10MP sensor was ready, but again it was 12 BIT. It was lke Nikon was no show. The advantage of tis wait is the 1DIII is turbo-charged with dual Digic III prcessors.

I have heard zilch about a Digic IV, but no doubt even Digic V is on someone's desk!. Whatever one might talk about now, just early in March is unlikely to be exactly what Canon would dleiver in November. Canon would have that camera decided on say in May and then luxuriously get it ready for August-September to be released in November or else the following PMA.

Without any threat to the 1DsII, there is for sure no need to hurry when every 3 months there is better technology ripe from the Canon Juggernaut to include.

I'd really like to know where the alleged quote came from. If it were true, then it would be reported in more formal places. That, I have not seen but I'll look!

Asher
 
B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Asher Kelman said:
I'd really like to know where the alleged quote came from. If it were true, then it would be reported in more formal places. That, I have not seen but I'll look!
Click to expand...

Asher, I've read it here.

Personally I don't know a "Canon senior engineer, Taki Somoishe", so it could be anything ranging from a prank or pure speculation, to a poor quote from a (culturally) misinterpreted Japanese person, or from an accurate statement to a deliberately misguiding 'leak'. Time will tell.

I remain sceptical about the dynamic range from such smallish sensels without a technology breakthrough, but who knows what's cooking in the Canon labs ...

Bart
 
D

Dan Lovell

New member
Asher Kelman said:
Paul, where is the original source of this quote? These are the facts as best I know them from a number odf. Canon has made a number of 1Ds >20MP models. As of April 2006 there were two models full frame. A 21 and a 24 MP camera. Each was 12 bit at the time.

Now it is likely that there have been other models too. As I methioned previously canon can go from zero to top speed in 3 months and deliver a new camera. That's how good they are. They are constantly doing versioning as they test out a new possible part of a new system. Canon had no need to bring out the 1DIII but could have last year. The 10MP sensor was ready, but again it was 12 BIT. It was lke Nikon was no show. The advantage of tis wait is the 1DIII is turbo-charged with dual Digic III prcessors.

I have heard zilch about a Digic IV, but no doubt even Digic V is on someone's desk!. Whatever one might talk about now, just early in March is unlikely to be exactly what Canon would dleiver in November. Canon would have that camera decided on say in May and then luxuriously get it ready for August-September to be released in November or else the following PMA.

Without any threat to the 1DsII, there is for sure no need to hurry when every 3 months there is better technology ripe from the Canon Juggernaut to include.

I'd really like to know where the alleged quote came from. If it were true, then it would be reported in more formal places. That, I have not seen but I'll look!

Asher
Click to expand...

Just 3 months to fab up a new camera from scratch? No, not on this planet. This is impossible and has never been done.
 
M

MArk Le

New member
my take on this 1Ds development is a mix of hopes and expectations:
the path of digital in studio & commercial is clear to me, since the first backs. And we're talking about high definition outputs, talking about the 1Ds segment.
Hasselblad is now all over the studios, and that's a fact. Mainly because of the brand name but also because of the increased quality (of the pictures). That's also a fact.

"quality" not to be confused with the only battle I see (since three years): noise.

I bought Neat Image for that, and it works. For the rest a 1Ds barely makes it compared to the old kodak 14n in terms of detail and color impact. 5 years old technology?

Dynamic range and real definition (real megapixels to be spread with some room to "breath") is the battle I want to see and packing more pixels into the same area is not what I expect as a solution.

Personally I did skip the Mark II and unless I see a real improvement in terms of definition I'll skip this Mark III as well.

The choice is between 24x36 and medium format backs. Talking still about the 1Ds segment.

In other words if I open a 1Ds (classic) file I still see pretty much the same images I'd get with the 1Ds Mark II (hmmm maybe a slightly stronger colors with the classic, to be honest)

Canon needs to make a choice if they want to stay in the segment as a leader: a bigger sensor and a bigger lens mount, better resolution and better lenses. If not Hasselblad will dominate (and pentax maybe, given the ZD uncertain future): because in the end what really counts is the quality of the pictures.

One more thing about the PJ and Sport cameras: who (ever) said that those photographers don't need quality? They do too... I submit 1Ds files to my Agency for news.. I mean...

:)
 
M

MArk Le

New member
:)
if you look closer you guys will find a S after the 1D in the title of this thread ...

we're indeed discussing the development of the new 1Ds

in any case, there is a new (nice) interview with Chuck Westfall, also about the new 580 flash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb3yuh_0E9s&mode=related&search=


talking about the flash, anyone knows if it will perform in AUTO also on a Canon camera?






P.S.: Imaging Resurce is doing a very good job reporting from the PMA this year
 
T

Tom Henkel

New member
Nill Toulme said:
Isn't the 1Ds MkIII supposed to be 7fps? That's not too shabby either...

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
Click to expand...

I haven't heard that one. I was assuming 5, maybe 6, FPS for a 21-22MP camera. Seven FPS would be impressive -- I guess. But, man, that would consume a lot of memory if you shot at 7 FPS for any length of time. A 22MP/7FPS camera would create some interesting possibilities for wildlife, sports and maybe even fashion shooters. Maybe Canon should give away the camera and sell proprietary flash memory cards! ;^)

Tom
 
S

Stan Jirman

New member
Tom Henkel said:
But, man, that would consume a lot of memory if you shot at 7 FPS for any length of time.
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt that you'd get to shoot it for a "length of time" at that rate. The current camera does less than 3s. I seriously doubt that the new one will do much longer, which is my biggest gripe with the 1Ds line. What use is the frame rate if you can't really use it?
 
E

Eric Hiss

Member
now they just need

...studio strobes that can keep up with that frame rate. The 1Ds was never a problem for me in the first place and I think for a lot of studio users the buffer won't be an issue either as the strobes still take a bit to recycle. I never hit the buffer on my 1Ds but often hit it on my 5D during shoots.
 
M

MArk Le

New member
What I really care is the quality of the details, the resolution, the clarity, the Dynamic range. All the gadgets (including more than 4 fps) are welcome of course, but what's important is the quality of the pictures.

A bigger sensor would also be welcome. And bigger glass as well.

I see a dramatic improvement in the quality of the new lenses (the 70-200 F4IS and the 50L) and I'd like to have a dramatic improvement with the pictures as well.

Pictures from the new hassy are plain beautiful, and so is the bank account needed to buy one.

But Canon has an advantage of several years in the segment, not only about the noise reduction because (frankly) I don't want to see a new 7K camera only able to take cleaner shots at ISO 1000 when Neat Image will do pretty much the same job (killing the clarity and details at the same time).

When I bought my first 1Ds I had mixed feelings about it, and I did switch to kodak 14n for a while to come back to the 1Ds once kodak left the building. But that AAless 14n still shows impressive shots in my hard drive, when I open the files...

Since then I was impressed by the Hassy files .. only

It's time for Canon to make a point, again. Like they did with the first 1Ds
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Marc,

That's on point and sobering!

BTW, forget speed, Can anything produce better quality than using a Mamiya 7II with an 80mm lens at f4-f11? I don't think so, not yet in 35mm.

Asher
 
Tim Dolan (Longwatcher)

Tim Dolan (Longwatcher)

Member
I for one am looking forward to a 1DsMkIII with at least 16MP, 6FPS and higher DR.

I would prefer 22MP to a max of 25MP, which is the point I have been given to understand from image scientists I spoke with a few years ago at which a 35mm format sensor would hit a practical limit in terms of the full range of use. If Canon said they had a 35mm sensor with 32 pixels, I would wait to see if they actually did manage to get acceptable noise without losing detail with that many pixels before buying, I will trust them up to 25MP.

I am hoping this same camera has higher dynamic range equaling B+W film. Even better would be a foveon style sensor that provides better color accuracy on top of higher dynamic range, but what I have now is acceptable for that.

And lastly I am wanting it to run faster then 6FPS (7 would be better). The reason for this last is although I am primarily a studio photographer, I have had some opportunities to shoot events where I needed the FPS of a Sports/photojournalism camera. So since I can only afford one more 1-series camera on my budget for the next 2-3 years, It has to be a studio camera, but I would like it to have the higher FPS when needed.

I don't need 10FPS, but 4 just doesn't quite cut it based on one of the opportunities I had a couple years ago to shoot paratroops leaving the plane (Army Golden Knights). At 4FPS I get two shots, one in the door and one way far away for each jump, I get a third, but even with a 1DsMkII, the jumper is a bit to far away even for me to crop. There is no time to zoom and I have to trust auto-focus (I also have to trust the little tiny strap going to the camera, but that is between me and State Farm). I figure 6FPS would get me one more shot in the middle at least and 7 or 8FPS would get me 4-5 decent shots to work from at varying distances before the jumper is too far away. So 7+ FPS would be desired.

There are no rental places within reasonable distance in my area (and none that would have a 1-series camera on hand) so can't exactly go out and rent one for the day. And both opportunities happened with less then one day's warning so can't have one shipped for rental. So I need at least one of my two Studio cameras to be a full multi-purpose camera with the resolution for studio that I like and need frequently and the speed I need ocasionally.

So that is my need for speed.
 
Tim Dolan (Longwatcher)

Tim Dolan (Longwatcher)

Member
Nill Toulme said:
I read somewhere that the 1DsIII will be 7fps, but I can't remember where.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
Click to expand...

Northlight rumor site, rumor from pre PMA reporting supposed Canon engineer at Photographic Engineer's Meeting

Look down to 2 Feb under this link for original source of this rumor.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_1DS_MkIII.html

I wish someone could validate this as a second person who had direct experience that either the meeting took place, what was said or that the Canon person really exists and works for Canon (or at least did at the time of the speech).

I suspect that the limit Chuck Westfall could do is confirm if the person did NOT exist at Canon, but he probably can't confirm anything else and probably can't respond, but maybe someone else knows someone who was there.
 
T

Tom Henkel

New member
Agree....

Stan Jirman said:
I seriously doubt that you'd get to shoot it for a "length of time" at that rate. The current camera does less than 3s. I seriously doubt that the new one will do much longer, which is my biggest gripe with the 1Ds line. What use is the frame rate if you can't really use it?
Click to expand...

I didn't count how many frames Chuck fired off in that 1D MkIII video, but I was thinking if they were each 22MB raw files you would need a stack of memory cards and one serious buffer to keep up. But even if the 1Ds MkIII comes in at 5fps, if you were spending a morning shooting wildlife, doing multiple bursts at 5FPS, you would be consume a ton of memory.

It may be technically possible to take the 1Ds into the range of 7fps, I just wonder how practical such an achievement would be. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't get the sense that more fps is a top issue for most people shooting 1Ds bodies. Better dynamic range and image quality that rivals MF cameras are higher priorities.

Tom
 
M

MArk Le

New member
Asher

eheh

I did a test between a (drum) scan from a bronica (80mm) and a 1Ds (50mm) some 4 years ago... after that I made the decision to don't do it again NEVER AGAIN.. LOL

but the 1Ds was close, not equal but close, but not equal


talking about pure resolution power because about the Dynamic Range the gap was indeed bigger

The digital workflow is amazing, no questions but in terms of clarity, color impact and definition even contrast digital still needs to improve.

What I was trying to say before is more like I'm not convinced that the upgrades went to the right direction. If you take the first 1D files and compare to the current 1DII files (for example) I'd say that while the 4MP was short in resolution (obviously) the other good characteristics (one for all the colors) went kind of .. lost in the way in the name of the enemy of the moment identified as the noise at high ISO.
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Mark,

I'd venture to stick my neck out and ask how much improvement hase be made since Neil Turner made these pictures with the 30D? written in 2000 by Neil Turner a wonderful photographer and teacher in England at dg28.com who wrote a stellar second opinion on the Canon 30D which suddenly changed my view of photography for ever.

These pictures are copyrighted property of Neil Turner and are shown under fair use for editoral comment only.

davies-neil-020.jpg



kemp-neil-008.jpg



kemp-neil-043.jpg



Such pictures to me meant a new age had arrived! Here was process that would eclipse film for most photojournalistic, sports and wedding photography. These three pictures heralded for me, at least, the dawn of a real new age!

Incidentally I was always concerned about this lovely ballet teacher's skin as there are two to three likely basal cell cancers hardly disguised by make up! That means that this lady was healthy and didn't need doctors much! Also the slip of the lipstick shows something about her eyesight perhaps or the steadiness of her hands. She's a fine lady who has had a long, long career, special teacher with dignity, skill and a beautiful authority.

Of course, the camera needed a unique vision of a skilled artistic photographer to light, position compose and process to make this pciture, but the D30 was his chosen tool. These 3 pictures are iconic and stunning testimony to the quality of both the work of Nei Turner and the expressive capabilities of the new D30 camera.

I do not think we are really much further ahead with our final images for most ordinary work. This, for just me at least, was the leap to the professional digital age!


Asher
 
S

Stan Jirman

New member
Tom Henkel said:
I didn't count how many frames Chuck fired off in that 1D MkIII video, but I was thinking if they were each 22MB raw files you would need a stack of memory cards and one serious buffer to keep up. But even if the 1Ds MkIII comes in at 5fps, if you were spending a morning shooting wildlife, doing multiple bursts at 5FPS, you would be consume a ton of memory.
Click to expand...

So? At the time of the 1Ds intro, at 11MP, the biggest drive one could buy was 250GB (with 300GB around the corner in May 2003), and the biggest CF memory card was 1GB (I got two of the very first 2GB cards overnighted the day before my honeymoon, which is why I remember it very well - at $799/piece). Today, by the time the 1Ds3 will ship, the largest disk will be 1TB (shipping in April) and _today_ a 16GB SanDisk III card costs $230. So by all measures, the original 1Ds was "much harder" on memory. I am pretty sure the same can be said for computer speed and RAM.

By and large, the cost of memory and storage is peanuts compared to the cost of missed opportunities or even the $8k sticker of the 1Ds series (so far anyway). I shot 220GB worth of my daughter so far and of all the things that I've spent my money on this past year, this doesn't itch me even a little bit. YMMV, of course.
 
D

Don Lashier

New member
Aside from high ISO I'm still pleased with my 1D and have seen no reason to upgrade yet as the resolution is plenty for 12 x 18 which is the largest I ever print. The 1DIII has me thinking but I may just wait til they make a real breakthrough with DR and not just more useless megapixels.

- DL
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The 1DIII, BTW switches off autofocus when you have live preview!!! Just in case they are still wondering about specifications for the 1DsIII in November to March 2008!

Does the Olympus 510 do that too??

Hmmm?

Asher
 
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