I tried Nicolas's sharpening action [Archive]

Asher Kelman

March 21st, 2007, 11:58 AM

I see two problems with Nicolas' sharpening! First the fish rotated in the process, second it lost part of the right fin, LOL!

Otherwise it's beautiful. Looks like she's got lip glosss!

A before would be helpful!

Thanks,

Asher

Nicolas Claris

March 21st, 2007, 02:44 PM

Thanks for the thank Ron, but as Asher says we need before/after comparison!

Ron Morse

March 21st, 2007, 03:01 PM

Thanks for the thank Ron, but as Asher says we need before/after comparison!

The unfortunate thing is that I deleted the other. I suppose I could do it all over again.

Asher Kelman

March 21st, 2007, 05:59 PM

Well, this time it should be faster, LOL!!!!!!

Otherwise we have no sense of whether Nicolas and you have some sort of conspiracy going on here!

Asher

Ron Morse

March 23rd, 2007, 10:58 AM

I went out to one of the pastures this morning and was greeted by big Benson. I figured a shot around the eye with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS would be a good try for Nicolas's sharpening as a couple of certain people asked for.

Before sharpening.
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/4586/mgunsharp5890vo9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

With Nicolas's action.
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6402/mgncsharpened5890xj5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ron Morse

March 23rd, 2007, 11:01 AM

Their is about 2 feet of snow left where he is standing. You can actually she hoof prints in the snow in his eye.

Charles L Webster

March 23rd, 2007, 11:16 AM

Nice, without looking artificial or "over sharpened"

I'll have to try it. I have a picture that benefits greatly from careful sharpening, but shows the effects of oversharpening.

I'm on a shooting expedition for the next week, but if this thread is still alive when I return I'll try Nic's action and post before and after versions.

Richard McNeil

March 23rd, 2007, 11:57 AM

I have searched and can't find how to get that action! How do I get it?

Richard

Ron Morse

March 23rd, 2007, 12:23 PM

I have searched and can't find how to get that action! How do I get it?

Richard

Its in this thread.
http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2437

Richard McNeil

March 23rd, 2007, 12:27 PM

Thank you Ron and Nicolas.

Richard

Asher Kelman

March 23rd, 2007, 12:39 PM

Well, Ron, that's a huge departure from fish! I love that image of the horse. At least as a teaser!

I'd love to see a larger image for several reasons. First the horse looks great as a subject. Next a large picture would ass more fine textures and the grass too. Each might respond a little differently to the sharpening.

As it is, I must take my hat off to Nicolas for the great process he has put together. Kudos and thanks to you both!

Asher

Nicolas Claris

March 24th, 2007, 07:10 AM

Thanks all

I'm very happy that you find this action working well.

The only issue is that on large (very) files it make takes several minutes to perform (i.e. 300 dpi A1 size - 16 bits)... even on dual-Core Intel 2.66, but only 4 Gb of ram... so expensive!

Asher Kelman

March 24th, 2007, 07:17 AM

Why is is so calculation intensive?

Asher

Nicolas Claris

March 24th, 2007, 08:43 AM

Lot of things to do... maybe also lack of RAM...

Asher Kelman

March 25th, 2007, 12:58 PM

Any one else have examples!

Asher

Ron Morse

March 26th, 2007, 11:47 AM

Well, Asher, I took this last fall before the camera was tuned up by canon but they show some different textures.

Unsharpened
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/5316/mg9565tv0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Nicolas's sharpening.
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5572/mgncsharpened9565hy9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Michael Fontana

March 27th, 2007, 04:06 AM

Lot of things to do... maybe also lack of RAM...

I gave it a quick try; about a minute for a 120 MB 1DS-2-tiff, in 16 bit, on a (PPC) Quad with 8 GB of RAM.
Is it darkening a bit the shadows - popping up contrast?

Here's a comparison: unsharpend at the left, Nicolas action at the center, and Uwe Steinmüller's Easy sharpening at the right. All in 300%, PS.

My quick conclusion: Nicolas's acction is slightly sharpening stronger than "Easy sharpening" does.

Nicolas, do you use it as final sharpening, before delivering the images to the clients? I see, you went the LAB-route ;-)
Thanks for sharing! Sorry, no pets, here ;-)

http://imago.macbay.de/OPF/nicolas_sharpen.jpg

Michael Fontana

March 27th, 2007, 01:59 PM

Yep, the 90%-black is definatly accentuated by your action, Nicolas, I had a look at the histogramm

Nicolas Claris

March 27th, 2007, 02:17 PM

Asher Kelman

March 27th, 2007, 02:30 PM

Michael,

Great example. However, it's coming up as jagies especially the diagonals. Could you post a less compressed jpg?

This is too good a contribution not to see it at it's best!

Thanks,

Asher

Nicolas Claris

March 27th, 2007, 02:55 PM

Asher
Michael has written there were 300%...
I agree it would be interesting to see the samples at 100%

Nicolas Claris

March 27th, 2007, 03:02 PM

Different tries from different persons are of course very interesting and a good test for my sharpness action. However there are many other action around, I think it would be interesting too to test Benjamin Kanarek workflow (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2437).
I'll give it a try tomorrow.
I also think that this thread should be merged with Benjamin's thread (in "Layback cafe") and moved to "Image Processing and Workflow" forum.

Asher if you agree could you do this?

Michael Fontana

March 27th, 2007, 03:20 PM

Bonsoir Michael
yes, I do agree, but:
- that's the way I like my pics, with contrasts and colorfull.
- the action produces a layer that is set by default at 70%, easy to tweak:
- sometimes I get it back to 30%
- sometimes I increase it to 100%
- I may also do a level with midtone around 1.1
- You may also use the eraser on some part...

I think such an action cannot be used the same way on all pictures, but it is - for me - a good start...

Thanks for trying it!

Helas Nicolas

ç'était pas du mauvais ésprit; et je savais d' exagerér en agrandissant a troiscent...

Setting the layer's opacity is a very valuable option, that I tried, too. Nicolas statement "I think such an action cannot be used the same way on all pictures" is identical with my own experiences.

I like the enhancement of the black, as I usually tend to keep them "open", till the last step. This pops contrast and color. I used your action today, in a rather "creative sharpening" - following the terms of Bruce Fraser - with a mask, for "selective" sharpness.

Still the question: Do you use it as last step, before reducing to 8-bit?

Michael Fontana

March 27th, 2007, 03:22 PM

Michael,

Great example. However, it's coming up as jagies especially the diagonals. Could you post a less compressed jpg?

This is too good a contribution not to see it at it's best!

Thanks,

Asher

Asher and Nicolas, I'll upload it tomorrow, as I'm at home, now.

Nicolas Claris

March 27th, 2007, 03:31 PM

Fine!
Thanks Michael!

Make sweet dreams

Nicolas Claris

March 28th, 2007, 12:14 AM

ç'était pas du mauvais ésprit; et je savais d' exagerér en agrandissant a troiscent...
300% is a good way to check also, then it's also interesting to see at 100% (and even at 50%)
I didn't understand your comments as "mauvais esprit" at all!
Comments may be negative also, though I didn't take them as so...
Still the question: Do you use it as last step, before reducing to 8-bit?
It is generally the last step before I save the file as LAB 16 bits, then:
- if the final output is RGB, I convert to the desired RGB color space prior to reduce to 16 bits
- if the final output is cmyk, I convert to appropriate cmyk color space prior to reduce to 16 bits

Sometimes it reveals some spots (not necessarly sensor's dust) so I'll have some cloning (but that can be done in 8 bits)

Michael Fontana

March 28th, 2007, 02:58 AM

ok, so he' re the 100%views, taken from screenshots at 72 dpi, and converted to sRGB. Still its not a 100% view of a tiff in PS....

BTW: It's shot from Distagon 28 on a 1 DS-2.

http://imago.macbay.de/OPF/100_a.jpg

http://imago.macbay.de/OPF/100_b.jpg

http://imago.macbay.de/OPF/100_c.jpg

Nicolas, thanks for clarifying the action's place in your workflow.
This reminds me, that I generally tend to sharpen rather conservative, as - when delivering the shots - I never know its final size, use, CMYK-profile, etc.

Nicolas Claris

March 28th, 2007, 05:07 AM

Nicolas, thanks for clarifying the action's place in your workflow.
This reminds me, that I generally tend to sharpen rather conservative, as - when delivering the shots - I never know its final size, use, CMYK-profile, etc.

Hi Michael

thanks for posting the above, I honestly have to admit that I don't prefer th "esay sharpening" versions...

I generally deliver my pics to the clients as this:
Out of camera size at 300 dpi / sRGB

I convert to cmyk when I know where (USA/Europe) it will be printed and on what kind of printer.

Otherwise, we mainly use our pics for producing ads or brochure for our clients so we know size and color space needed!

Have a great day

Asher Kelman

March 28th, 2007, 05:28 PM

I'm posting this for Richard McNeil.

First the lobster, original, unsharpened:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Richard_McNeil/LobsterOrig.jpg

and now sharpened with Nicolas Claris' actions:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Richard_McNeil/LobsterSharpened.jpg

Now the bird (what is it and where do you find them) original

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Richard_McNeil/BirdOrig.jpg

and sharpened

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Richard_McNeil/BirdSharpened.jpg

Asher

Bart_van_der_Wolf

March 28th, 2007, 06:14 PM

I'm posting this for Richard McNeil.
[...]
Now the bird (what is it and where do you find them) original

A cormorant (http://www.birdguides.com/html/vidlib/species/Phalacrocorax_carbo.htm)?

Bart

Asher Kelman

March 28th, 2007, 08:54 PM

A cormorant (http://www.birdguides.com/html/vidlib/species/Phalacrocorax_carbo.htm)?

Bart

Well the beaks are so different that the must have different purposes!

The comerant has a down pointing beak

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Richard_McNeil/Comerant_Birdguides.com_017004a001_j2.jpg

Whereas this guy's beak scoops upwards as if it pushes through the sand. Also the yellow apparently should go around the eyes.

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Richard_McNeil/BirdSharpened.jpg

But I'm no ornithologist!

Anyway, just from my own perspective perhaps, there is an uncanny resemblance, this birds sure reminds me of Nixon! This may start a round of other spottings ans soon we'll have multiple, masked Nixons, swooping down from the sky to a Los Vegas Stadium when the flying Elvises can't make it!

Asher

Michael Fontana

March 29th, 2007, 12:43 PM

Nicolas
a really good thing about your sharpening action is that it doesn't produces nasty jaggies on high-contrast areas (80% black nearby to 10 % white)

Nicolas Claris

March 29th, 2007, 12:46 PM

Nicolas
a really good thing about your sharpening action is that it doesn't produces nasty jaggies on high-contrast areas (80% black nearby to 10 % white)

Thanks Michael

This action is the result of a long process learning, reading fora, try/guess etc.
I'm quit sure it will evolve soon...

The nice thing I've found is that it works with most of files, including scans...

Asher Kelman

March 29th, 2007, 01:10 PM

Nicolas,

Your action seems really an advantage as it does not damage the natural look. Thanks for sharing. That's a great help to everyone.

Concerning the birds beak, Ray suggested that I stand on my head or get new glasses as the birds head is rotated so its upside down! Now who is correct, the bird, me or Ray or perhaps I shouldn't ask!

Is it in fact a coumerant?

Asher