HyperDrive info

[Moshe Ronen]

I'm interested in the 'HyperDrive' HD80. Can anyone please fill me in with the following details, which I couldn't find on their web site:

Which operating system is used?
Where is the OS stored? Flash memory? How large?
Any problem storing the device without batteries?
Which file system does it use, FAT32? NTFS?
Is firmware updating a simple process?
Any reliability or other problems?
Is card transfer to HD really as fast as they claim?
Anything else I should know?

Thanks,
Moshe

[Jason Anderson]

Which operating system is used?
Hyper drives dont really use an operating system because they run independent of any computer. It's kind of like a large flash drive if you will.

Where is the OS stored? Flash memory? How large?
Since there is no OS no storage space is taken up. The entire drive is kind of like a flash drive - see above.

Any problem storing the device without batteries?
None that I know of.

Which file system does it use, FAT32? NTFS?
FAT32 - like most flash drives.

Is firmware updating a simple process?
Depends on how you define simple. I have found it so, but I also am quite familiar with the firmware update process as I've done it more time on more devices than I would care to count. The procedure though is pretty straghtforward and if you can follow directions, yo should be able to do it.

Any reliability or other problems?
None that I know of - just dont get it wet. But that's common sense for most gadgetry.

Is card transfer to HD really as fast as they claim?
Lab tests will always exceed real world tests. It may come close in the real world, but without knowing their benchmarks and testing environment it is safe to assume you will be able to see 75-85% of those speeds.

Anything else I should know?
Treat it like any field drive and you should be ok. Also, take spare batteries as they do suck a lot of power.

[Moshe Ronen]

Thank you very much Jason!

Moshe

[Asher Kelman]

Moshe,

Welcome!

I'm trying to get info on this device too. I happen to use an iPod and also a Flashtrax. The latter has a nice screen and obeys the Mac operating system as well as PCs of course.

Asher :)

[Jae_Moon]

Just a couple more comments:

Speed of backup: It is really fast as the spec indicates.
Battery: with four (4) 2500 mah NiMh batteries, I backed up up to 45-50 1G cards.
Dependability: It does not have any special shock absorber so handle as if it is your laptop (it uses laptop HD). I took it to my Antarctica trip and kept it inside pocket of outer jacket (for physical and temperature protection) and worked perfect.
Other: Get a HD with 8 or 16 MB buffer memory (it speeds up). Faster rpm does not help.

I hope it helped.

Jae M

[Moshe Ronen]

Hi,

I currently use the FlashTrax and don't like it. It's terribly slow. I just backed-up a 2GB card, and it took about 20min! I don't need all the extra functions. The display is practically useless. I shoot mostly RAW and what you see is the low-res jpeg extracted from the RAW file, from which you can tell nothing, not even if the rest of the file is not corrupted.

The reliability of the FlashTrax is also questionable. If I leave it without battery for 2 - 3 weeks the firmware becomes corrupted and I must re-flash the unit. If I leave it with battery, the battery discharges (even with the unit off) and the same thing happens. To keep it alive I must recharge the unit every week or two.

The HyperDrive seems to give just the functionality needed. Less frills, less chance something will go wrong. And the standard AA batteries, I think, are a big bonus.

Moshe

[Sid Jervis]

I think the only real issue at present is availability. The good news is that if you preorder, the company include:

FREE Worldwide Shipping via UPS United Parcel Service (1-3 Day Courier)
8pcs Sanyo Rechargeable AA Batteries
Car charger/adaptor
* Promotion ends after this backorder period

Not a bad deal.

Does anyone know if the units contain a drive with an 8 or 16 MB buffer ?

[Dave Newton]

Are there any 2.5" notebook drives that have a 16MB buffer around? I've just had a quick search of the usual suspects (IBM/Hitachi, Seagate, Western Digital and Samsung) and can't find any. Anyone any further info?

Dave

[John Hollenberg]

There is a 100 GB 5400 RPM Toshiba with 16 MB cache. I don't have the exact model number, but I am sure you can find it at www.newegg.com

--John

[Dave Newton]

Thanks John, I've just found it in the UK - the Toshiba MK1032GAX - 100GB, 16MB cache, 5400rpm. Can't see it being worth the extra money to have 16MB cache though when 8MB should be more than enough and is about £10-20 cheaper.

Dave

[Sid Jervis]

Thanks John, I've just found it in the UK - the Toshiba MK1032GAX - 100GB, 16MB cache, 5400rpm. Can't see it being worth the extra money to have 16MB cache though when 8MB should be more than enough and is about £10-20 cheaper.

DaveSo, what is the final drive selection? and where are you looking to buy the HD80? Welcome BTW.

[Dave Newton]

I'm currently thinking the final drive selection will be:
Western Digital Scorpio 120GB WD1200VE 2.5" 8MB Cache, 5400rpm, 12ms access. Has 250G operating, 900G non-operating shock tolerance as well, so should be able to cope with life in my bag....

As for buyng the HD80, I might take advantage of their backorder situation and offer with free delivery and 8xAA batteries.
Are you going to get one?

Dave

[Sid Jervis]

The only decisions I have to make at present is what drive to install into the HD80. Oh, and when to spend the money.

[Moshe Ronen]

I ordered my unit (40GB) from Adorama and they shipped it next day.

The installed drive was a Hitachi Travelstar 4K40 with 2MB buffer, 4200RPM. A full Sandisk Extreme III 2GB CF card took approx. 3 min to copy to the disk, without verification. With verification it took 12 min.

I replaced the disk with a Toshiba MK4025GAS which has a 8MB buffer, 4200RPM. The timings remained the same.

I don't know if file size makes a difference. In this case the files were 24MB each. Perhaps the buffer has to be larger than the file size, to make a difference.

Anyway, 8MB didn't help. Perhaps 16 will.

Moshe

[Ray West]

Hi Dave,

I bought the unit with the 100gb drive fitted by the supplier, a few months ago. The price/value for that option beat trying to get a drive here. If I was upgrading a notebook PC, then it may be different, putting the nb drive into the hyperdrive. It is faster than the few other devices I've used, and it performs as described. There was a whole thread, going on fm, running for weeks, iirc re. delivery times/concerns re the usa supplier, etc. I did not find it a problem, however, although I did email him to remind him that I'd paid a few weeks b4. I think the vat was about £7.00, but they charged an extra £12.00 to collect.

Best wishes
Ray (UK too)

[Dave Newton]

Hi Ray,

thanks for the info especially on the delivery and VAT. Think I'll go ahead and order one while it's on backorder and has that special offer active.
I'll have a look at getting one with a drive fitted too...

Dave

[Sid Jervis]

Dave,
I did get a comment recently that the WD drive was not the best one to use in this unit.

If you find out what HD fit to their product, please let us know.
Thanks.

[Dave Newton]

Did you get any info back about what was the best drive to use? AFAIK, they use Samsung drives when they ship them (I'm sure I read that somewhere!)
I'll have another look and see what I can find...

Dave

Edit - Eastgear (who ship the identical, but differently badged PD70X) use Hitachi or Samsung drives - that's where I must have got it from...maybe looking at those two manf. might be the best idea....
Is that a vote for the 7200rpm Hitachi drive then? MMmmm

[Sid Jervis]

You can always ask for a recommendation from their support people via email.

So, we are looking for a fast 2.5" drive, high working G specification and very low power consumption. Any other requirements?

[Dave Newton]

Well, I guess the ultimate drive would be one with HGST (Hitachi) shock protection (300G op. shock), 7200rpm spindle, sensible power usage (although if I can only transfer 30GB instead of 50GB I wouldn't be too unhappy!) and ideally a 16MB cache...unfortunately, such a drive does not yet exist AFAIK.

Nearest? The Toshiba mentioned earlier, or one of the Hitachi range.

Did they say why the WD was not good to use?

[Dave Newton]

Sent Hyperdrive an email asking what the best drive for performance is. I'll let you know what they say.

Dave

[Ray West]

Hi Dave, 11th June 2006

p9 of the hd80 manual - drive must be less than 10mm thick, 44pin ide, 2.5inch 5V (+/- 5%).

P38 - hdd with 8MB cache or more, a 4200rpm disk with 8MB cache will perform better than 5400rpm disk with 2MB cache. Use the built in formatter. Copy speed with fat16 cards faster than fat12 or fat32.

They no not always reply to emails - never in my case

[Sid Jervis]

They no not always reply to emails - never in my case

That's odd, I have exchanged about eight emails with them, and I certainly always get a reply.

[Dave Newton]

Well, I had an automated reply telling me that received my query, but I have not had anything else back from them yet. I'll give them until tomorrow (that will allow a couple of working days) then I'll try again.

Sid, if you're getting responses, you don't fancy asking the same question do you? Namely, which is the best drive in terms of performance, to put in one?

Dave

[Dave Newton]

How interesting, within 15/20mins of putting the last post up, I got this as an email from Hyperdrive:

"Sorry for the late reply.
We would recommend either Hitachi or Samsung 5400rpm 8MB buffer IDE/ATA-6/ATA-100 2.5" hard disk for good value/performance.
If you don't mind paying more, go for Hitachi or Samsung 7200rpm 16MB buffer IDE/ATA-6/ATA-100 2.5" hard disk, but be prepared to pay much more for the premium performance, about 10-20s faster per GB transferred."

Are Hyperdrive reading this, or is it just coincidence?

Anyway, very useful info that should help make up my mind - if I can find the funds for and location of the 7200rpm 16MB cache drives.....

Dave

[Sid Jervis]

How interesting, within 15/20mins of putting the last post up, I got this as an email from Hyperdrive:
Are Hyperdrive reading this, or is it just coincidence?

I would not be too shocked if they were reading this, but either way you got an answer.
Please let us know. where and how much when you have the information.

[Asher Kelman]

David,

What drive did you get and how did it work out?

Asher

[John Hollenberg]

I have been using the Hyperdrive with 100 GB 7200 RPM Hitatchi drive. While the unit is a bit quirky in its design (e.g., battery gets run down if plugged in while unit is on) it is very simple to use. Just have unit turned off, insert CF card, and turn it on. Automatically creates a folder on hard disk and lets you know when it is done, and whether it was successful. I download to the hyperdrive, then connect the unit to my laptop and copy the images there. That way I have a backup should one of the drives fail.

--John

[Erik DeBill]

I have been using the Hyperdrive with 100 GB 7200 RPM Hitatchi drive. While the unit is a bit quirky in its design (e.g., battery gets run down if plugged in while unit is on) it is very simple to use. Just have unit turned off, insert CF card, and turn it on. Automatically creates a folder on hard disk and lets you know when it is done, and whether it was successful. I download to the hyperdrive, then connect the unit to my laptop and copy the images there. That way I have a backup should one of the drives fail.

--John

How does it handle file names/directory structure? I'm shooting cannon and I'm wondering if it will preserve the file names and directory structure from the CF card, or if it will rename files and impose it's own.

My scripts and filing system use those numbers to uniquely identify original images.

[Ray West]

Hi EriK,

It will do what you want. Page 24 of the following explains it - http://www.hyperdrive.com/shop/downloads/HD80_Manual.pdf

It is one of the few devices that performs exactly as advertuised, wrt speed of transfer, battery life, etc. The manual makes it seem far more complex than it is. Hyper drive - not 'hyped up drive' ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray

[Sean DeMerchant]

Which operating system is used?
Hyper drives dont really use an operating system because they run independent of any computer. It's kind of like a large flash drive if you will.


This is incorrect. Devices of this sort often use two OSes. The first is an embedded OS/microkernel/RTOS like VxWorks (http://www.windriver.com/vxworks/index.html) and the second is a custom embedded OS layered atop the first which provides the user interface and device specific funtionality.

The fact that the devices are computing devices and that they run independently of a host computer implies they contain an operating system. It is just a custom one.


Where is the OS stored? Flash memory? How large?
Since there is no OS no storage space is taken up. The entire drive is kind of like a flash drive - see above.


Again, incorrect. Some past devices have stored the OS/es on the hard drive itself. With the advent of user replaceable drives the data is likely stored on some internal flash memory or an EEPROM (yes, I know an EEPROM is flash memory but not of the consumer sort).

Since the OS/es exist/s they must be stored somewhere.


Which file system does it use, FAT32? NTFS?
FAT32 - like most flash drives.


Many flash drives use lesser versions of FAT except for the largest. And this device is not a flash drive, it is a hard drive with an embedded OS attached to it to enable its usage without a host computer.

enjoy,

Sean (getting the words straight as unlearning "facts" is harder than learning the correct facts)

[Cem_Usakligil]

I'd like to react to the discussion re. the buffer size of the hard disk in order to improve transfer speeds. In this particular scenario, we will be copying a complete CF/SD card of let's say 2 GB in one go to the drive. The size of the HD buffer will not be relevant then, since it will be saturated after the first 16 MB of data transfer and the perfomance will then solely depend on the real write speed (throughput) of the hard disk. The drives with faster average throughput will perform better, even if they carry a buffer of "only" 8 MB instead of 16 MB.

Regards,

Cem

(just my $ 0.02)

[Sean DeMerchant]

The drives with faster average throughput will perform better, even if they carry a buffer of "only" 8 MB instead of 16 MB.

It should also be noted that drives with lower power consumption per MB transfered will perform better in the field (not on a USB port, but via battery life) which could let you use that extra set of AA batteries for your flash.

I am not saying a 4200 RPM drive is better, but if the transfer rate of a 4200 RPM drive is fast enough then it will likely yield better battery life using the same drive platter technology.

Who really cares how fast it is hooked up to your computer, its performance in the field is much more important to your photography. At home or the studio you can grab a cup of coffee and wait. In the field dead batteries and no transfer implies you are done shooting. What is your priority? Shooting? Bragging rights on fast transfers that fail to happen?

No answers here, just serious questions that matter.

enjoy,

Sean

[Erik DeBill]

I'd like to react to the discussion re. the buffer size of the hard disk in order to improve transfer speeds. In this particular scenario, we will be copying a complete CF/SD card of let's say 2 GB in one go to the drive. The size of the HD buffer will not be relevant then, since it will be saturated after the first 16 MB of data transfer and the perfomance will then solely depend on the real write speed (throughput) of the hard disk. The drives with faster average throughput will perform better, even if they carry a buffer of "only" 8 MB instead of 16 MB.


Plus, if they want to by truly safe from filesystem corruption, they'd want to disable the write-buffer anyway. Otherwise, it's impossible for the device to actually know when data has been fully written to the disk (and thus it is safe to power down).

[Ray West]

From cf to hdd, about 1 Gb per minute. Files can be verified with a checksum, if you wish.

The reference I gave earlier to the manual, answers most of the questions being asked here.

Best wishes,

Ray

[Asher Kelman]

Plus, if they want to by truly safe from filesystem corruption, they'd want to disable the write-buffer anyway..
How?

Asher

[Cem_Usakligil]

Here is a short story of my experience with these devices so far:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12691#post12691

Cheers,

Cem

[RoyVarley]

I have the PD70X - otherwise known as "Hyperdrive".

My experience so far (12 months or so) is that it is very reliable and fast. However there is one "gotcha" that you should be aware of.

When it comes time to delete the files from the drive, if you use Windows Explorer on your PC to do the job, this can leave the drive in a state which seems not to be compatible with the internal firmware of the PD70X. During one gig, having deleted the files using the PC, I was able to load 2 x 2Gb cards successfully and then no further copies would work. Each copy failed after a few files had been transferred. Now, I guess I have to say that I can't "prove" that using Windows Explorer caused the problem but now that I don't do that, I don't have the problem....

The solution is to always format the drive using the recommended procedure. Once you've got the hang of it, it's only a minute or so's effort. I've never had a problem uploading cards to the drive when the drive has been formatted - nearly all the way to its 60Gb limit.

[Sean DeMerchant]

My experience so far (12 months or so) is that it is very reliable and fast. However there is one "gotcha" that you should be aware of.

When it comes time to delete the files from the drive, if you use Windows Explorer on your PC to do the job, this can leave the drive in a state which seems not to be compatible with the internal firmware of the PD70X. During one gig, having deleted the files using the PC, I was able to load 2 x 2Gb cards successfully and then no further copies would work. Each copy failed after a few files had been transferred. Now, I guess I have to say that I can't "prove" that using Windows Explorer caused the problem but now that I don't do that, I don't have the problem....

The solution is to always format the drive using the recommended procedure. Once you've got the hang of it, it's only a minute or so's effort. I've never had a problem uploading cards to the drive when the drive has been formatted - nearly all the way to its 60Gb limit.

Hi Roy,

Did you delete the files using Windows or did you reformat the drive using Windows? The first should work with any FAT drive. The latter can cause issues if the new FAT (File Allocation Table) is placed in the incorrect spot for the firmware in the drive. I had this issue years ago with a CF card formatted in computer and being unable to see the shots I took on the computer after that.

thanks,

Sean

[Asher Kelman]

Any comments on use on a Mac? What is the best deletion or reformat procedure.

Asher

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi Roy,

Did you delete the files using Windows or did you reformat the drive using Windows? The first should work with any FAT drive. The latter can cause issues if the new FAT (File Allocation Table) is placed in the incorrect spot for the firmware in the drive. I had this issue years ago with a CF card formatted in computer and being unable to see the shots I took on the computer after that.

thanks,

Sean
I'm with Sean on this. Formatting from Windows is a NO-GO for this unit. Deleting files from within the explorer has not been an issue so far and works just fine. The disks are formatted by the unit itself using the FAT32 system. I use 120 & 160 GB disks BTW.

Cheers,

Cem

[RoyVarley]

I formatted the drive using the PD70X procedure - not via windows. It was the deleting of the files using Windows that caused the problem. YMMV - but for me, once was enough, I won't risk that again - especially since the only way to find out if there is a problem is to have the unit fail in use - not an option!!

Edit: Thinking about it some more. Until that problem ocurred, I had been deleting some files and folders using Windows and then using the unit without hassle. This was the first time that I'd deleted everything from the drive using Windows. Maybe that's the issue. Still - I'll keep re-formating - works for me.

[Charles L Webster]

Seems as though the HD-80 is no longer available, being superseded by the new HyperDrive Space. The new item uses a "user replacable Lithium Ion battery" instead of AA cells, and no longer includes the ability to charge AA batteries. Otherwise it seems pretty similar in specs and price.

I have no connection, don't even own one.

http://www.hypershop.com/shop/information.php?info_id=11

[Asher Kelman]

160 GB seems pretty sweet! I like the fact that one doesn't need any adapters and it can run any card you can imagine!~

It looks good http://www.hypershop.com/shop/images/HDS-Overview-300.jpg

The speed of about 20MB/second is pretty good. One can go faster but this is still up there.

- Fastest Memory Card Backup (20MB/s)
- Fastest USB Transfer Speed (28MB/s)
- Most Powerful Battery (100GB/charge)
- Directly accept 18 different card types
- Unlimited capacity (40~160GB & beyond)
- 32-bit copy verification system

Asher

[Ray West]

I have used my hyperdrive (hd 80 type) only on two or three trips. During the most recent, I managed to damage the pins in its compact flash socket. The guides for the cf card are quite short, and it is easy to insert a card the 'wrong way round'. Part way through my trip, I found a centre pin was bent well out of alignment and also one of the end pins was broken, or pushed back. Using a needle and a piece of cardboard, I was able to straighten the pin, and it has worked flawlessly since then, although eventually, I suspect I will end up with a cf card with a broken pin in one of its sockets... The end pin is one of the grounds, and does not seem to effect anything.

Hyperdrive have suggested that they will repair it, but I may attempt it myself, the cost of Fedex, whoever, is too expensive, and normal post is too risky imho.

I have never had a problem with compact flash pins, although it is a recognised problem with cf design, but the hyperdive is the only unit that I know of, which uses this poorly designed short slot arrangement.

The 'space' unit is not so good, imnsho, at least for me. The slots are not at one end, so it is probably not so convenient if belt worn, it still has the rubbish cf slot, and doesn't use AA batteries. However, progress happens. It is still the best unit out there, for what it does, however.

Just a warning, as well as not relying on the velcro, as mentioned before.

Best wishes,

Ray