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View Full Version : Canon 1dmkIII $ 4,495.00 @ B&H


Anthony Arkadia
March 29th, 2007, 05:29 AM
Well B&H has finally listed the price of the 1DMKIII @ $4,495.00, i would be willing to bet that this is the price. A sad day for Canon, it would be different if they said that it was a typo in their original white paper statement about the price being $3,999.00 for the camera, instead they chose to rely on the fact that no one would notice, except for a few people on a few forums.
The arrogance of the way that this company has been conducting business lately really is starting to get under my skin. This is what lack of competition does.
And yes, if they did admit the typo i would be completely satisfied, the trickery and deceit is what crawls up my butt sideways.

Nill Toulme
March 29th, 2007, 05:51 AM
I have to agree. I'm on the waiting list for one, but not for $4500. Now I'm thinking I'll wait at least until fall and reconsider the question then.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

MArk Le
March 29th, 2007, 07:37 AM
Canon has the right to position the camera at the price level they like of course.

We have the right to start laughing when a huge mistake like this comes out of course.

Both right, Canon and us: but the "image" of Canon went down a little with the rebates handling first and now this "I wanna make more money" policy ... that's true. Too.

eheh

Anthony Arkadia
March 29th, 2007, 07:44 AM
I was on a list as #3, called and had them pull me off of it, they said they had no official price from Canon yet, i still told them to free up the spot and remove me.

Kathy Rappaport
March 29th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Suggested retail price is just that - suggested. It doesn't mean that someone can't price it higher.

That being said, I think there are show specials from WPPI since the line was out the door to buy it at every camera vendor there.

I will try putting it in the cart later today and seeing what price comes up with show special codes .

John_Nevill
March 29th, 2007, 03:34 PM
I suppose if one wants cutting edge technology then one should expect to pay the price. That's the message Canon seems to be portraying.

Needless to say it's steep, but once production gets into full swing and competitors up the anti, there'll no doubt be a few rebates kicking in.

Bob Krueger
March 29th, 2007, 11:25 PM
Suggested retail price is just that - suggested. It doesn't mean that someone can't price it higher.

Canon hasn't done suggested retail prices for at least several years, I think. These days, especially with the high-end cameras, they do "minimum advertised price" (MAP). As I understand it, an authorized dealer who publicly advertises at a lower price than that risks being pulled from the list of authorized dealers. That's why you see those "put it in your cart to see the real price" things.

Perhaps I understand it incorrectly, but that is how I think Canon does its pricing these days. Of course, someone can always price it higher, but why would anyone do that?

That thought reminds me of when I was shopping for a Rolex 20 years ago and it was common for Rolex corporate to allow its authorized dealers to discount up to 20% off retail for the "sports" watches (they don't do that anymore). One local authorized Rolex dealer was doing just that, but Ben Bridge wasn't. When I asked the salesperson why, she said that their customers preferred not to shop at "discount jewelers." The "discount jeweler" who was discounting was the oldest and most respected jeweler in San Diego at the time. I replied that their highbrow customers may have more money than brains, but that I was going back upstairs to the other guy, thank you. Well, Ben Bridge, I'm still enjoying my 20-year-old el-cheapo GMT Master II today, and I'm sure I found something else to enjoy with the extra 300 bucks too, although I have no idea anymore what it was.

Nikolai Sklobovsky
March 30th, 2007, 12:06 AM
I don't think it's Canon. I think it's B&H reasonably assuming that there are plenty enough thick wallets around whose owners would not think twice about extra $500 (which is less than 15% markup) if they had a chance to get their hands on something "cool".
Once the initial hype is gone and every camera store on each coast would have a few boxes in stock I'm absolutely positive that the dust will settle and the price would go down.

I know I'm not paying that premium. I mean, I'm a geek, but not to a degree when I just through away $500 instead of waiting a month or two...

John_Nevill
March 30th, 2007, 02:34 AM
I read today from japanese based source that units will start shipping from May 31st for Japan and mid June for the US, with production runs being in the order of 5000 per month.
I suspect grey imports from Hong Kong will be the first to hit the streets in the UK! In fact digitalrev (http://www.digitalrev.com/en/product_details.php?item_id=1884) are already taking preorders for 2449.

Bob Krueger
March 30th, 2007, 06:45 AM
I know I'm not paying that premium.

That's me as well...not when there's a perfectly good 1DMkII that isn't one whit less effective than it was the day before the 1DMkIII was introduced sitting in my camera bag. I'm trying to talk my friend into upgrading and selling me his 1DMkII for a second body, though, and the extra 500 bucks just hurt my cause.

The 1DMkIII is very nice, but the older body does everything I need it to do...except shake dust off the sensor (I hate cleaning the sensor, but after a weekend at Laguna Seca it's absolutely necessary). Heck, I'm still running 1.03 firmware and Photoshop CS (with no numbers at the end) and they work fine as well. I guess I'm just a Luddite.

Harvey Moore
March 30th, 2007, 08:46 AM
The subject at hand has developed into a "Tempest in a Teapot" on the web

Wait until the camera body actually is shipping and THEN go shopping for prices

Tom Henkel
March 30th, 2007, 08:52 AM
B&H has a long history of premium-pricing new products. While I'm generally a big fan of B&H, I'm not sure it's the best place to buy products that are new to the market. Their policy of charging your credit card immediately for products not yet in stock is annoying (I understand their reasoning, but it's still annoying). And you can often get a better price on new-to-market gear from other reputable establishments.

In this market segment $500 is a lot of money. If you think of all the things on your wish list for about $500 (or other things for which $500 would be a nice down-payment) it's a big price to pay for the privilege of getting a camera body a few weeks ahead of everyone else. By mid-summer I'll bet you'll be able to get a 1DMk III from a variety of sources (including B&H) for about $4K.

As for Canon, their mistake was waffling on the actual list price after publishing it in a press release. They had a footnote in the white paper basically saying "retail prices might vary." Had they just left it at that, it wouldn't have made them look like greedy morons. But, nooooo.

Tom

John Craig
March 30th, 2007, 01:50 PM
As for Canon, their mistake was waffling on the actual list price after publishing it in a press release. They had a footnote in the white paper basically saying "retail prices might vary." Had they just left it at that, it wouldn't have made them look like greedy morons. But, nooooo.

Tom

Actually, I didn't think the press release mentioned the price at all except to say "similar to the IdIIn"

Tom Henkel
March 30th, 2007, 02:01 PM
Actually, I didn't think the press release mentioned the price at all except to say "similar to the IdIIn"

The white paper, which was part of the press material, offered a specific price of $3,999 (pg. 63, second paragraph of the conclusion).

John Craig
March 30th, 2007, 03:15 PM
the white paper was part of the press material? Its even really hard finding this on Canon's own website... its existence isn't even mentioned in their press release:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=NewsDtlAct#101z10

the point is that the mention was in a white paper, that had limited distribution (RG's site).. most sites eg. DPR or Steve-Digicams didn't get a "white paper" release link even.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/canon_02212007_1dmark3_pr.html
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022208canoneos1dmarkiii.asp


Unfortunately the power of the internet keyed everyone into this paper's existence, but it was not a part of the press release package.

Tom Henkel
March 30th, 2007, 04:07 PM
the white paper was part of the press material? Its even really hard finding this on Canon's own website... its existence isn't even mentioned in their press release:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=NewsDtlAct#101z10

the point is that the mention was in a white paper, that had limited distribution (RG's site).. most sites eg. DPR or Steve-Digicams didn't get a "white paper" release link even.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/canon_02212007_1dmark3_pr.html
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022208canoneos1dmarkiii.asp


Unfortunately the power of the internet keyed everyone into this paper's existence, but it was not a part of the press release package.

Dude, Canon published the price on the Internet at the time of they announced the 1D MkIII. If Phil Askey or "Steve" couldn't find it, it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

I stopped posting at DPR because of idiots like you. Go back to DPR if you want to engage in mindless debates.

Ron Morse
March 30th, 2007, 04:21 PM
I don't want to get in any big debates but I saw the price in the white paper and then it was gone but it sure was their at first.

Nikolai Sklobovsky
March 30th, 2007, 07:21 PM
...
One of the reasons many of us left DPR was the fact it was not moderated properly, and because of that flamewars and "below the belt" expressions were flying with no end.

We're trying to build a friendly professional community here at OPF. Let's act at least professionally...

Cheers!



(From Asher, a comment: Thanks, Nik for keeping your eye open! We are indeed a unique community that has earned respect for civility. Thanks everyone for paying attention to this!)

MArk Le
March 30th, 2007, 10:16 PM
not you, I mean Canon
LOL

we do understand that what we're discussing here is not (really) the price to pay in order to get a 1 touch ISO switch instead of two (I'm referring to the cutting edge technology, obviously),

but

the fact that the original white paper said a price and then it changed (even on the independent web sites and review sites .. soooo fast to remove it... )

that's a sign of REALLY REALLY wanting more money (badly) .. like I said before there is nothing wrong with that, but I can laugh a little (can I?)

so there.. I'm laughing a little.

Ron Morse
April 1st, 2007, 03:44 PM
I am not happy about the $4500 price but I think that getting the camera as soon as I can and being able to use it will be worth the difference in the white paper price and what it ended being in the end. I usually shoot horse shows every weekend in the summer and was so discouraged with the 20% keeper rate on a very good weekend with the 20D that I only shot 1 horse event last summer. Now that canon repaired the 20D I will be shooting a lot more no matter if I can get my hands on the MIII or not.
I keep reading that the first round of MIIIs are pretty well spoken for and that the next batch won't be available until probably July. I hope that is not true. I wonder if their is any truth to this.

Anthony Arkadia
April 4th, 2007, 04:09 PM
The original White Paper can be found here at The Digital Picture, scroll all the way to the bottom of the page.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-Mark-III-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

or you can Click here to Download the Original Canon White paper (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-Mark-III-Digital-SLR-Camera.pdf)

Jane Auburn
April 19th, 2007, 05:56 PM
Well B&H has finally listed the price of the 1DMKIII @ $4,495.00


Just say "no."

Supply/price = demand.

Charles L Webster
April 19th, 2007, 06:58 PM
I see this price ?increase? as being similar to auto dealer's "additonal dealer markup" that is applied to cars that are in short supply. Those who want to be the first on the block to have the latest whiz-bang toy have to be prepared to pay the price.

Early adoption often has a price premium.

Stan Jirman
April 19th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Personally I find this discussion even more ridiculous than the sensor dust one. If $4500 is too much for you, for whatever reason (idealogical, truly financial, spousal) then don't buy it. Don't blame Canon or B&H for it. I always thought that this is what free market economy is about, period.

Asher Kelman
April 19th, 2007, 11:42 PM
As I have mentioned before the price Canon charges is just what they can get. You'd do the same!

Canon USA does have the luxury of being able to sell them to the retail stores from as low as $1,400 if they wish according to my best estimation. Now they problably sell them for closer to $3600 or even more. So most of the profit goes to Canon USA, not the stores. They might make more now, but that will last for 3 months only.

If not for this free market system, we would not have such fine cameras anyway, unless it was the work of one family dedicated to some Zen perfection. However, the camera then would not have all the whistles and bells and might be called Leica or Minox.

Asher

Paul Bestwick
April 20th, 2007, 01:00 AM
whole heartedly agree with Asher. & Stan i am with you regarding your comparison to the dust thread (seems like just another excuse to whine & complain). I recall paying a similair price for the D30 when it came out. Now, 5 years later I can buy a 1DMK III for the same price. So, the way I see it the price has dropped significantly. I recall in my first year of digital I saved 20K on film & processing. For me, I dont care about paying a bit more for such amazing technology. If you applied the same technology principle lets say for example to cars, then you would be buying a Porsche. Photographers are getting a great deal.

Cheers,

Paul

Steve Saunders
May 24th, 2007, 05:12 AM
Yes I agree that DSLR's have got significantly cheaper in the Nikon camp as well. Each top moel (D1, D1X, D2X) was cheaper than the previous one and gave double the resolution and faster performance. Compared to the 90's when a 1.5mp DSLR was the price of a house, we are certainly getting a better deal nowadays.

Asher Kelman
May 25th, 2007, 12:09 AM
Well,

Who else has actually touched the 1DIII or seen it in the stores?

Asher

RoyVarley
May 25th, 2007, 09:32 AM
I picked mine up today. AU$5999 = US$4800. So, a little pricier over here but that's not unusual for anything!

I've been snapping things around the house - nothing of any great merit to show on these forums! But ISO3200 is impressive, noise wise. Here's a jpeg straight out of the camera: http://www.screenpeace.net/0J4W0050.JPG

The camera feels great. With the 70-200 F2.8 it handles beautifully. Focus is fast. Didn't try AI servo. The LCD is bright and clear - I like the + - zoom buttons and I set the "zoom to focus point" custom function (rather than just zooming from centre) - very nice.

Shutter is quiet (compared to my 1Ds). Silent mode is soft - you'd hear it in a quiet hall but it wouldn't be intrusive.

Menu system is a breeze although I did have to read the manual to find some functions.

I have some real work next week. I'll let you know how it goes if you'd like.

I have the WFT-E2A on order as well as a second battery. The dealers don't even have real order numbers for these from Canon yet, apparently.

Asher Kelman
May 25th, 2007, 10:12 AM
Hi Roy,

Congrats on your new camera. Impressive 3200! Like the 1600 of my 1DII or better. The image comes out improved with levels and a simple S-curve. Interestingly the histogram is combed showing missing tonalities due to some sort of binning. There is no obvious purple fringing between the junction of the black letters of the street sign and the white background.

Asher

Steve Saunders
May 25th, 2007, 02:32 PM
Congratulations Roy. You are the first 'real' person I know who actually got his MkIII. Still waiting for them to land on our island here.

Asher Kelman
May 25th, 2007, 02:59 PM
Hi Steve,

What Island? Maybe The Pirates of the Caribbean are stealing them, LOL!

Asher

Nicolas Claris
May 25th, 2007, 03:14 PM
Hi Steve,

What Island? Maybe The Pirates of the Caribbean are stealing them, LOL!

Asher

Pirates in Ireland? That's a scoop!-)

Steve Saunders
May 26th, 2007, 01:47 AM
Hi Asher. Ireland is an island and all the cameras have to come here through dealers in the UK so they can add their extra cut onto the price before sending the cameras to us. So you are partly right, except that it's The Pirates of the UK that rob us instead!

Ray West
May 26th, 2007, 02:37 AM
Hi Steve,

Its a question of supply and demand, size of market, etc. If you really have a dealer buying from another dealer, then obviously there is a handling charge and extra delivery charges to take care of, and probably something has to be factored in to cover doa returns.

The beauty of the internet, is that _you_ can buy from Hong Kong easier than from the local shop. Your local dealer could probably get a better price for you, but not for him, so why should he?

Best wishes,

Ray

Nill Toulme
May 26th, 2007, 07:15 AM
The English language Mark III manual is available at this link (http://www.brenner.co.il/mark3_manual_en.pdf), or at least was when I downloaded it this morning.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

John Maio
May 26th, 2007, 11:46 PM
Haven't logged in here for awhile. I got my 1D Mark III from the store this morning (May 26). It was delivered there yesterday late afternoon.

Its one fine camera, to be sure. I did some experimenting today but plan to do more tomorrow.

Someone on another forum had asked about the "Highlight Tone Priority" custom setting, so I just made a simple test of the Highlight Tone Priority mode. These 6 images were shot from my rear deck looking into the western sky about 1 1/2 hours before sunset in New Mexico.

The first three are with the function enabled and for the last three, its disabled. It was saved to "Autoviewer" right out of Photo Mechanic - no tweaking of the RAW images of any kind, save the JPG conversion.

To me, it looks like there are more details in the high clouds in the first 3 (enabled). The back of the house looks darker. In the second set of three, the sky seems more washed out, and the white stucco of the house is brighter.

ISO 200, 35mm f/1.4L set at f/8. Av mode.

Check it out if you like.

http://johnmaiophotography.biz/1D3_Test/

Asher Kelman
May 27th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Hi John,

Wonderful to have you back and with a bang! Glad you like the 1DIII. What is the difference between the first 3 images?

Thanks for sharing. We're hungry for these images!

Asher

John Maio
May 27th, 2007, 12:41 AM
Hi Asher,

There is really no difference between the three images in each set. The first three have C.Fn II-3 enabled and the second three do not.

This "Highlight Tone Priority" setting is proably aimed at wedding photographers who shoot white gowns in sunlight. It seems to shift the DR of the camera to allow more "shades" in the bright areas. The downside (if you could call it that) is that minimum ISO setting is limitted to 200 when this function is enabled.

I thought the contrast between the yard and the high clouds would show it and it does. In images 4, 5, and 6, the cloud details are blown out.

I'll try to remember to put a RAW version of the "enabled" and "disabled" version tomorrow.

By the way, besides Canon's DPP program, Capture 1 Pro has preliminary support for the 1D3's RAW files in version 3.7.7 No word on when Adobe will get on board.

Bart_van_der_Wolf
May 27th, 2007, 12:26 PM
Hi Asher,

There is really no difference between the three images in each set. The first three have C.Fn II-3 enabled and the second three do not.

This "Highlight Tone Priority" setting is proably aimed at wedding photographers who shoot white gowns in sunlight. It seems to shift the DR of the camera to allow more "shades" in the bright areas. The downside (if you could call it that) is that minimum ISO setting is limitted to 200 when this function is enabled.

To me, it looks like it is mostly an exposure shift correction. Perhaps there is also some non-linear in camera processing for JPEG output, but that remains to be seen.

Perhaps you could compare with a - 1EV (or -2.3EV whatever it is in Raw) shot. My expectation is that the 'Highlight Tone Priority' will look very much like the - EV corrected one.

Bart

Steve Saunders
May 27th, 2007, 01:02 PM
Many thanks Nill,
As a new to Canon user myself, the manual will give me a head start before I get my Mk3, hopefully this week.



The English language Mark III manual is available at this link (http://www.brenner.co.il/mark3_manual_en.pdf), or at least was when I downloaded it this morning.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Steve Saunders
May 27th, 2007, 01:10 PM
I just downloaded the manual Nill, so it's still there. Just over 5mbs download.

Asher Kelman
May 27th, 2007, 01:13 PM
To me, it looks like it is mostly an exposure shift correction. Perhaps there is also some non-linear in camera processing for JPEG output, but that remains to be seen.

Perhaps you could compare with a - 1EV (or -2.3EV whatever it is in Raw) shot. My expectation is that the 'Highlight Tone Priority' will look very much like the - EV corrected one.

Bart

So these images are just jpg? This fn does not apply to RAW images?

Asher

John Maio
May 27th, 2007, 02:10 PM
I took the new 1D Mark III for a little spin this morning to evaluate some of the corners of its performance envelope.


All images originally shot in RAW
No post processing at all - they were converted to what you see by PhotoMechanic and only hint at what a properly processed image would look like
The hummers and bike riders were all shot at 10 FPS in an attempt to evaluate focus tracking. I wish I brought a longer lens for the hummers, and apologize if there are too many, but I've never been able to freeze them like this before (I don't usually do landscapes and wildlife - except the 2-legged kind)
The interiors of the church and restaurant are high ISO - 1600 to 3200. No post noise reduction of any kind applied
There is one of a white bench in sunlight. Since a wedding gown wasn't available, I used this to further evaluate the High Tone Priority mode.


Some of the images include comments to help you decipher what I was trying to evaluate. If someone has a particular need for the RAW image, please PM me and I'll try to get it up on YouSendIt.

My conclusion from this trial run is that I'll keep the camera ;-)

Here's the link - the JPGS in the show are large - a broadband connection is advised.

http://johnmaiophotography.biz/1D3Performance_test/

John Maio
May 27th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Haven't logged in here for awhile. I got my 1D Mark III from the store this morning (May 26). It was delivered there yesterday late afternoon.

Its one fine camera, to be sure. I did some experimenting today but plan to do more tomorrow.

Someone on another forum had asked about the "Highlight Tone Priority" custom setting, so I just made a simple test of the Highlight Tone Priority mode. These 6 images were shot from my rear deck looking into the western sky about 1 1/2 hours before sunset in New Mexico.

The first three are with the function enabled and for the last three, its disabled. It was saved to "Autoviewer" right out of Photo Mechanic - no tweaking of the RAW images of any kind, save the JPG conversion.

To me, it looks like there are more details in the high clouds in the first 3 (enabled). The back of the house looks darker. In the second set of three, the sky seems more washed out, and the white stucco of the house is brighter.

ISO 200, 35mm f/1.4L set at f/8. Av mode.

Check it out if you like.

http://johnmaiophotography.biz/1D3_Test/

RAW FILES BELOW:

This one has the High Tone Priority setting enabled:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJpNU1ORkVkMnMwTVE9PQ

This one is the standard (disabled) setting:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJpNU1DeFVoeVkwTVE9PQ

The RAW files are about 12 MB each

John Maio
May 27th, 2007, 07:25 PM
This is from the slide show I posted earlier. Its a grab shot of the interior of the La Hacienda restaurant in Old town Albuquerque. It was shot at ISO 3200.

Straight from the camera - no noise reduction or sharpening.

What do you think?

http://download.yousendit.com/E83C21F968A395D1

Steve Saunders
May 28th, 2007, 02:59 AM
I forgot to say that the 1DIII manual that Nill links to isn't a DIY scan and upload, it seems to be the proper Canon one and very high quality as well.

Mark Johnston
June 2nd, 2007, 04:56 AM
The price advertised in Japan at Bic Camera, a very large retail outlet, has been JPY 498,000 since they first mentioned it. I pre-ordered mine in February at that price, and that is the price I paid when I picked mine up on Thursday.

That works out to about USD $4,095.

Regards to all,

Mark Johnston