Comments on Vulture Portrait

[John Harper]

Hi there

This is my first post with an image so if it all goes a bit (Pete Tong) wrong i apologise in advance.

Would value any feedback as to how the shot could be improved.

I was trying for limited depth of field to blur the background, managed to get focus on the eyes, but is the beak too blurred? It was shot through wire so again used a wide aperture to try to blur that as well.

If anyone is up to redo the original RAW file i would be happy to send it over

Regards


John

http://www.portviewfitout.co.uk/vulture4.jpg

[Louis Doench]

Very nice look. That is a very tight DOF, but I don't think the beak is to blurry. Kinda gives him more menace. The fringe of feathers is a bit blown out, but the detail in the face and eyes is perfect. Good shot.

[Don Cohen]

Thanks for the post, John. I find this image appealing. Having the eyes in focus is crucial, and you nailed this here.

Regarding the overall DOF, I think it is acceptable, but I'd be curious to see if it would work better if the beak were a tad more in focus. One trick (when possible) is to zoom out slightly, keeping the same aperture, with the plan of cropping the image in post-processing to accomplish the original desired composition. This will get you slightly increased depth of field when needed.

A backlit fringe of fur or feathers can be very dramatic, but I agree with Louis that it would be more effective if it were less blown out. I don't know how much can be salvaged with the original Raw file, but it's something you can play around with.

Thanks again for the post.

[Asher Kelman]

John,

Focus Magic plugin in CS2 might retrieve some definiton of the beak, but not a lot.

Frankly, I'd cheat if I had other images with the beak in focus and swop!

In any case, as is, (other than experienced birders), most would be delighted with your picture since it already transmits so much of the feelings that one would want to transmit.

Since we expect the beak to be utterly sharp, the blur shown does imply the bird is ready to move on to attack. So in itself, the picture works.

Working against convention sometime gives us a new way of seeing!

Asher

[John Harper]

Gentlemen

Thank you for the replies and the helpful comments, there was one other vulture in the enclosure and I link below the shot i made of him.

He was further away so a bit more depth of field and the backlight was more of an angle, so not so blown out on the highlights but i think you can see the wire i was shooting through becoming a problem. Occupational hazard of a captive environment i suppose!.

Still the beauty of digital.... if a first you don't succeed.... Hire someone who knows what they are doing :)

John


http://www.portviewfitout.co.uk/vulture5.jpg

[Asher Kelman]

Again impressive and enjoyable.

Is the zoo nearby?

Great subjects. I hope we can see more.

Maybe they will be further back next time.

Asher

[Angela Weil]

Fine little fellow. I like the second one even better than the first. As to the 'unsharp' beak: I think in both cases, the eyes are the central part, second comes the form (or the composition, if you like) and most importantly the general impression. Thank you for sharing your work!
Angela

[John Harper]

Again impressive and enjoyable.

Is the zoo nearby?

Great subjects. I hope we can see more.

Maybe they will be further back next time.

Asher


Asher

Its the Hawk Conservancy which is about 30 miles or so from me, so not too far at all. I have recently tried to shoot some birds in flight and have had some success. I am happy to post some more images but don't want to bore the pants off people.

John

[Asher Kelman]

John,

We love these birds!

So give us what you have and we'll continue to enjoy your work!

Asher

[John Harper]

Fine little fellow. I like the second one even better than the first. As to the 'unsharp' beak: I think in both cases, the eyes are the central part, second comes the form (or the composition, if you like) and most importantly the general impression. Thank you for sharing your work!
Angela

Angela

Thank you for the kind words, and i am happy to share my work as its good to get feedback either positive or negative. But positive is nicer to see :)


John

[Nicolas Claris]

Hi there

This is my first post with an image so if it all goes a bit (Pete Tong) wrong i apologise in advance.

Would value any feedback as to how the shot could be improved.

I was trying for limited depth of field to blur the background, managed to get focus on the eyes, but is the beak too blurred? It was shot through wire so again used a wide aperture to try to blur that as well.

If anyone is up to redo the original RAW file i would be happy to send it over

Regards


John

http://www.portviewfitout.co.uk/vulture4.jpg

Though I prefer the other shot, I tried my sharpening action... but preserving the boke

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/vulture4_2.jpg

[Asher Kelman]

What a sharp set of birds!

Welcome additions Nicolas.

Are you sending this from an internet cafe or your the or maybe you are back already?

Asher

[John Harper]

Though I prefer the other shot, I tried my sharpening action... but preserving the boke

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/vulture4_2.jpg

Hi Nicolas

Thank you for the improvement on the sharpness. I am a complete novice when it comes to Photoshop ( i assume that is what you used?) I would be grateful to know how i could achieve similar results. If the answer is already in another of the forums perhaps you could point me in that direction.

Thank you for your time and trouble


John

[Nicolas Claris]

What a sharp set of birds!

Welcome additions Nicolas.

Are you sending this from an internet cafe or your the or maybe you are back already?

Asher

Hi Asher
No I'm back from Istanbul since yesterday noon, but so much work on computer now!

Bosphor is magic by night ! I'll post some night pics later...

[Nicolas Claris]

Hi Nicolas

Thank you for the improvement on the sharpness. I am a complete novice when it comes to Photoshop ( i assume that is what you used?) I would be grateful to know how i could achieve similar results. If the answer is already in another of the forums perhaps you could point me in that direction.

Thank you for your time and trouble


John

Hi John

what trouble?

I'm always happy if i can contribute...

Yes the answer is here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2471&highlight=Nicolas)

I used this action (that you can download here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2437&highlight=workflow)

I first did a
- shadow/highlight to enhance the light burned zone (somewhat 0 for dark and 25/25/30 for light)
- then applied the action
- duplicate the new sharpened layer
- set the 1st layer (not the background) to 40% (or was it 50%?)
- on the top layer I selected the beak area with 30 pixels feather radius
- inversed the selection and deleted so only the beak and its area where still there
- set that layer to 75% and used sharpen filter somewhat 25 / 25 / 0
- flattened, convert to sRGB and post...

I hope my explanations are clear... and helpfull

Have a nice day

[Erik DeBill]

I actually really like the out of focus beak. Sitting close to my 20" monitor, I got the feeling that I was nose to nose with the bird and the beak was too close for me to focus on.

Also, I think the out of focus beak and sharp eyes help it feel less like a bullet composition.

Don't change a thing. It rocks just as it stands.

[John Harper]

Hi John

what trouble?

I'm always happy if i can contribute...

Yes the answer is here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2471&highlight=Nicolas)

I used this action (that you can download here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2437&highlight=workflow)

I first did a
- shadow/highlight to enhance the light burned zone (somewhat 0 for dark and 25/25/30 for light)
- then applied the action
- duplicate the new sharpened layer
- set the 1st layer (not the background) to 40% (or was it 50%?)
- on the top layer I selected the beak area with 30 pixels feather radius
- inversed the selection and deleted so only the beak and its area where still there
- set that layer to 75% and used sharpen filter somewhat 25 / 25 / 0
- flattened, convert to sRGB and post...

I hope my explanations are clear... and helpfull

Have a nice day
Nicolas

Thank you for the explanation, I have downloaded the file and extracted it to the photoshop actions folder. But I am unsure what to do next.

As I have mentioned i am a complete novice at Photoshop and i obviously need to get to grips with layers, selections etc, as frankly its all new to me.

I appeciate the help i really do but i feel i need to get (on a scale of 1 - 10) from my current level 1 skills on PS up to about 4 or 5 before much of this is gonna make any sense to me.

So please bear with me while i try to get my images looking sharper.

Regards


John

[John Harper]

I actually really like the out of focus beak. Sitting close to my 20" monitor, I got the feeling that I was nose to nose with the bird and the beak was too close for me to focus on.

Also, I think the out of focus beak and sharp eyes help it feel less like a bullet composition.

Don't change a thing. It rocks just as it stands.
Erik

Thank you for the kind words, and i am glad you like the image.

John

[Nicolas Claris]

Thank you for the explanation, I have downloaded the file and extracted it to the photoshop actions folder. But I am unsure what to do next.
John
I don't know if you're on Mac or a PC, anyway, if you installed correctly the action, once your file is opened in PS:
go to the script tab
into "Sharpness_Claris" select "Net" (means sharp in French)
then click on the dark triangle down below the script tab.
When it is finished (you get the hand back and can again select menus) go to the "layers" tab
you should be able to see a background (your original file)
and on top of it a layer called "Plan Net"
then follow the instructions i wrote in the previous post...

Good luck!

[John Harper]

John
I don't know if you're on Mac or a PC, anyway, if you installed correctly the action, once your file is opened in PS:
go to the script tab
into "Sharpness_Claris" select "Net" (means sharp in French)
then click on the dark triangle down below the script tab.
When it is finished (you get the hand back and can again select menus) go to the "layers" tab
you should be able to see a background (your original file)
and on top of it a layer called "Plan Net"
then follow the instructions i wrote in the previous post...

Good luck!
Nicolas

I am running on a PC and i have got it installed, thank you again for the advice it really helped. I have sharpened up my shot of a golden lion tamarin with it and will post a copy in that thread.

John

[Nicolas Claris]

Nicolas

I am running on a PC and i have got it installed, thank you again for the advice it really helped. I have sharpened up my shot of a golden lion tamarin with it and will post a copy in that thread.

John
It's what it's done for! I'm happy if it helped, but do not stand on it, you may improve it or at least use the layers opacity capacities, even erase some parts that come too sharp with the eraser on the layer(s)...
The use of sharpness (I mean sharp/blurr) is very important in photography, depending of your vision but also of the subject, you may wish to have all DOF very sharp or on the contrary preserve some bokeh...
The action I've provided is a post production tool, it is IMHO always better to achieve your vision once you do the shoot (by using different settings on your camera, wide open or ƒ22 or in between, shutter speed/ISO, focus points etc.)

Have a nice day