Marketing Ideas

[Gary Yelland]

I thought I would start a thread on marketing ideas,
what ideas do we have and innovations to help build a healthy client base.
All ideas are welcome, even the wacky ones.

Here are some to start the thread:

1. Let your customers do the marketing.

If you are taking portraits, Print 5-10 business cards or postcards with their picture and your company details on. Ask them to hand out the cards to their friends, for every friend that returns for a photo shoot with one of their cards that can have a free print or £10 cash.


2. Target your audience

Always carry flyers and business cards, but not to hand them out to anyone only to potential clients. For example if you go to a craft fair or show ground. Try the promotion girls and guys on the stands, these people are hired on their looks, and are already interested in modeling, they always need images for their portfolio.


3. Use Technology and Trends

Open a page on myspace, Flickr, faceBook and other social networking websites. Most of these sites you are able to search for people in a particular town or area, so search for local people and offer your services. People in general like to use local photographers as its easy and convenient. By the way myspace is great for new bands starting their career that need album cover images for a reasonable cost.


4. Sports events

These are great for promotion, take free sports images of the games with the permission of the organisers, offer some prints or web images free. Why would you do this, because the money is not in the small local sport team photographer its in the families and social clubs that are linked with them. If you can get into this area through the club, the word of mouth in a very closed community of like minded people can be very powerful.

anyway these are a starter for 10,
see what you think, post you marketing ideas and hopefully start to build some really innovative ways to get your people banging your door down for work.

Cheers

[Asher Kelman]

Great start, Gary.

This could be a great resource!

Everyone see how we could add more ideas and refine this!

Asher

[Kathy Rappaport]

You should see the look I get when I chat with people in an elevator. But I can tell you that I have made great contacts that way. I was in the dentist's office and told my hygenist that I was starting a photography business. She booked a portrait session with me then and there, was so happy we booked another one to do their holiday card photo too - the whole family which includes her Parrots.

[Gary Yelland]

I agree, never miss an oppertunity with a new person to drop it into conversation.

by the way whats a holiday photo card ??

[Kathy Rappaport]

A Christmas card that has a family protrait on it...several labs have very high quality greeting cards that you can personalize - of course you can use a photo at your local Costco/Walmart/Druggist or on line at Snapfish/Ofoto/Flickr etc. too...I found a lab that took some of my fine art images and I made note card stationery out of them for holiday gifts last year.

[Chris Purves]

4. Sports events

These are great for promotion, take free sports images of the games with the permission of the organisers, offer some prints or web images free. Why would you do this, because the money is not in the small local sport team photographer its in the families and social clubs that are linked with them. If you can get into this area through the club, the word of mouth in a very closed community of like minded people can be very powerful.



Gary - When you give something free then the value of your product is just that. ZERO.

Also take into consideration the fact that there are a lot of photographers out there that make their living on photographing sports events. Now you are probably going to answer that you would not do that if there is another photographer there. What happens when a club knows that you will shoot their game for free, they will turn down a paid photographer because you do it for free. You have set that price point. I don't do horse shows anymore partly for that reason. Someone always has a DSLR there and is giving away the prints.
I had a fellow come to me at a show and ask if he could stand with me and maybe get some pointers from me on shooting the jumping. He told me not to worry about him cause all he ever does is give away the prints so I wouldn't lose any business because of him.

What would your reaction be to someone settingup anywhere and giving away portraits to build a sports photography business?

Now on to marketing tips -- If you are starting out. Decide what makes you different, something about your business or style that is unique. Look for a journalist that writes about business or lifestyles or whatever that may relate to your business. Contact them and tell them about your uniqueness and how it would make an interesting story. You have to sell them on the idea of doing a story but an editorial piece about a new studion lends credibilty.

Look for a home show. Buy a booth and market away. Set up your camera and lights have cards with samples of your work and a show special. Make the special specific and very special. How about an outdoor portrait special with the fall colours. Book now and prepay the sitting fee at half price. You have their money and bookings for months down the road.

Cheers
Chris

[Gary Yelland]

You suggestions are great and helpful for others, which is what this post is all about.

The comments you have, are also echoed in the wedding photography field, and infact in many fields of photography, but I have a different perspective, this is a reality that will only continue, I embrace the change, I find ways to turn into an opportunity. These low cost and free services are a part of modern day business in any walk of life. Some people make a living out of subscription web forums with a yearly fee, but many are happy to use free ones.

Its all about the overall business model, and the ability to constantly change and adapt to the market place that leads to overall success in any industry. I have seen many many business fail just because they were unwilling or unable to change. I would love someone to give away free portraits as it would force me to refresh my business model and explore new opportunities that would present themselves.

I fully agree that style is very important, and its why customers come to you but its not the only reason there are many other factors that have an effect.

Its good to have these discussions as this is a major concern to the photography business today and its struggling to accept and find solutions to the problem. We are all responsible to help in this respect.

[Nicolas Claris]

…but I have a different perspective, this is a reality that will only continue, I embrace the change, I find ways to turn into an opportunity. These low cost and free services are a part of modern day business in any walk of life.

Bonjour Gary
please see no offense there, but this statement - already heard in many different places and about different aspects - is IMHO very dangerous.

Of course I do agree that everyone has to evolve during our personnal or pro life.
But regarding the specific angle you argue things may be different.
These low cost and free services are a part of modern day business in any walk of life

For me as an individual among all others - our society- I strongly believe that may acts tend to make/build/modify my environment and in this particular case THE market.
(see here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3018), since that thread I do have refused a 3 days assignement for an american magazine that have decided to cut by 3 the rights they pay to their photogs, just arguing that these were their new rules. I had made many assignement for them before, including covers, it was a normal fare and it was fair to be there also, everyone was happy. F•ck)

I don't want the market to tell me what to do, I want to -as much as possible- drive my own life. In other words I don't want the market to tell me what to do. Whatever it costs me.
For me but also for the rest of the people.
Nowaday, I see so many young fellows wanting a job and telling me that they can assist me for many month -for free!- because they want to enter into the market.
I don't want slave! if someone does a good job for me, I have to pay him. If I can't afford, well I'll work at night, but if my clients do PAY me, I should be able to pay someone to help, otherwise my business model is wrong.

The price I rate for my work shows what I think I am and what I think is my value. It is a part of my image together with the quality and style of my work. If someone knowing my work is willing to pay my rate, it means I desserve it. Fortunately, I have enough for my living, but it has not been always like this. I had very hard time, but never went to bargaining. Just have eaten more potatoes and less meat!

If you add to the chain free jobs to free products to free.... you'll get Chinese children to work for major companies (Western and Chinese) because none could afford to buy the Olympic Game Masquote (see there (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/536641/1178608))

Modern business model of tomorrow will reflect precisely our today's behavior.
We're all responsible, let's keep clean!

Resisting (resistance?) is a strength though sometimes difficult, this is our pride.

Be good and have a nice day!-)

[Gary Yelland]

Thats ok, it healthy to have different views and acceptable.

I think you are confusing if a product is free then it has no value or is of low quality.
I can produce a free product that is of the highest quality and with unique style and built with many years of skill and craftsmanship. The product is the same if its sold for £10 or £10,000.

The price is not in anyway related to the product its just a price thats all. My business model that is always changing makes a very healthy profit, more than I need for my family to enable me to sponsor local community youth projects and charity work. Just because you offer some free products doesn't mean overall all you earn less, in fact you can earn much more, but for me its the love of the job thats the reward striving for perfection in every image, pushing the boundaries of what is possible, and the passion for photography.

If we all had the same opinion and all agreed with each other then the world would be a very dull place.

Keep clicking

[Nicolas Claris]

Thats ok, it healthy to have different views and acceptable.

Agree!

I think you are confusing if a product is free then it has no value or is of low quality.

No, not at all, it happens that I do give, as a present, a print(s) to someone that, for any reason, desserves it or just like it and can't afford. And I can attest that in such case, the "value" of the gift is greatly appreciated!
This is from a personnal relationship whith someone I do appreciate.
When making business, value, one stated that the work is fine, is money.

for me its the love of the job thats the reward striving for perfection in every image, pushing the boundaries of what is possible, and the passion for photography.

If we all had the same opinion and all agreed with each other then the world would be a very dull place.


Can't agree more!

Keep clicking I'll do! trust me…•)

[Ray West]

Hi Gary,

I think your views may change when/if photography is your only source of income.

My trade is Electronics and Software Engineer also been working for 17 years as an aircraft designer / program manager having a 9-5 job allows me the time to spend with my family without the worry of where the next job is coming from. The way its going though it wont be too many years before I am going to have to make a tough decision, if I should flip to photography full time.

At the moment, I guess you can afford to be generous, since your day job is possibly buying the bread, photography just adding the jam.

Best wishes,

Ray

[Gary Yelland]

Sorry, I was only talking about the income from my photography, the Engineering work is completely separate I also have a passion for aviation which I indulge. The main source is through the photographic part time activity, its true that my wife also works in the photographic company for the marketing and customers support, but it allows her to stay at home with the children. Like for like the photographic pays much better, but as I said before its about passion and the challenge not the money so much. I cant see why people focus on that as its ultimately not so fulfilling. I may turn to photography full time, but I would miss the aviation work too much, thats why is a tough decision not a financial one.

Any more marketing ideas ?

[Nicolas Claris]

These are great for promotion, take free sports images of the games with the permission of the organisers, offer some prints or web images free. Why would you do this, because the money is not in the small local sport team photographer its in the families and social clubs that are linked with them. If you can get into this area through the club, the word of mouth in a very closed community of like minded people can be very powerful.

Hi Gary

I've reread your post and it seems there have been some misunderstanding from me and some others.

If I may reword your sentence, in fact you don't "offer for free", you give what is called a baksheesh in some non western countries.

Not really a way to adapt your strategy, but using a model that does not fit the western market...

My 2cts

[Paul Bestwick]

A competitor who gives product away. The ultimate undercut. Lets hope that doesn't catch on..........


PB

[Angelica Oung]

There's nothing incompatable about the western market and "baksheesh". Gmail is free. Google's not a charity. Flickr got me hooked with the free service. But now I'm hitting the 200 pictures uploaded limit, I might well end up shelling out that 25 bucks a year to keep more pictures there.

It's how competition works, and if photographers like Gary need to break into a new market, their best move might well be to give away some product for free and wait for the sales to come through. If the sales don't come through I doubt he'll be giving away the product forever.

[Nicolas Claris]

It's how competition works

Bonjour Angelica

Competiton works the way we all together decide the rules, we live in a society, this means we -the humans- have organised the relationships to have better lifes etc.

Of course one particular behavior, not following the rules set, may break the competiton.
This is why we all have to be carefull not to infringe those rules, because it is our own sake!

Each one of us is responsible of our market to keep wealthy...

Nothing comes down from nowhere. I want to leave in harmony with others, so I respect them and their work. Til they follow the communauty rules... Which are different in the Eastern part of world (baksheesh) than in western world (quailty/price ratio).

[Angelica Oung]

Nicholas,
It's true that ever since the medieval guilds, tradesman with the same speciality have banded together to protect themselves from the ruthless market forces that characterizes the cycle of undercutting we call the 'race to the bottom'. But it is also true that where this kind of protectionism works too well, the vitality of the market suffers also -- those who have little competition have little incentive to improve.

I guess what I'm saying is, now I'm not a professional photographer, and as such it is hard for me to feel too much loyalty for the 'community'. Currently, my skills are poor. I'd gladly do what Gary suggests, shooting events for free or nearly free, in order to gain experience and perhaps a foot in the door in terms of sales. I'll be acting in my best interest. Would that be wrong? As my skill improves, perhaps I will feel more and more that I am a part of the community and become more mindful of the prevailing price, not just out of loyalty to my fellow photographers, but because I will now be in a position to provide enough value to my clients to charge the going rate.

Cheers,

[Kathy Rappaport]

I have had to make the decision in order to launch my business that I would not give product away. I researched going prices. I have paid a fortune in gear and education. I need to recoup that. I would not sell my knowledge or my investment short. I might spend more time creating my final product so that it salable. I actually fired a client where I had underpriced the job initially. I completed two series of product shots and did not accept the third because I underpriced the work and now gained the experience. For the sake of good public relations as a photographer, I gently told him that it was not a good fit for me to do that type of photography. This is my business experience telling me that if I kept doing that, I will not be able to fund my lifestyle or my future business.

[Asher Kelman]

I have had to make the decision in order to launch my business that I would not give product away. I researched going prices. I have paid a fortune in gear and education. I need to recoup that. I would not sell my knowledge or my investment short. I might spend more time creating my final product so that it salable. I actually fired a client where I had underpriced the job initially. I completed two series of product shots and did not accept the third because I underpriced the work and now gained the experience. For the sake of good public relations as a photographer, I gently told him that it was not a good fit for me to do that type of photography. This is my business experience telling me that if I kept doing that, I will not be able to fund my lifestyle or my future business.

Kathy,

You had a good lesson. I know you are looking at this from a practical perspective and with the benefit of years of buisness experience and accounting advice to professionals.

One doesn't want to punch a hole in the boat one is sailing, and that is perhaps what one is in danger of doing when things are just given away below market price.

Now I do know that Mike spinak, making the transition, (a better word expansion) from the finest imaging of plants, landscape and wild life to wedding, family and child photography, has, I know, started by doing for free a lot of work for close friends.

However, in the transition to going pro for Wedding Photography, for example, he has set high standards for his own time and won't allow himself to get a reputation for "cheap" work, as it's so difficult to climb up from that.

Still, the early jobs can be given at a somewhat lower price if one makes a rule that each new job increases by a percentage until the correct range is reached. If you are known as an $850 wedding photographer that gives all the files too, then it will be tough changing that.

So Kathy, your decision to take a very strict apprach makes sense. Still Mike is doing the same thing but in a disciplined, planned approach to defend his earning worth.

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Gary,

I really want to thank you for starting the "Marketing Ideas" thread. You outlined some major points which can help a photographer. I hope you continue this as it stimulates valuable discussion.

There are all sorts of models and we need to learn about them, their pros and cons, just like cameras.

For ethics, we have different rulers to measure values, so don't be put off by criticism. In fact, that is one of the benefits of an open forum. We are not censored so we can exchange and explore entirely opposing approaches to the same problem. It's this capability which allows us to entertain alternate ways of doing things and allows us to survive market and technology changes.

So I want to let you know I appreciate your effort and look forward to more of the same!

Kindest wishes,

Asher

[Nicolas Claris]

I have had to make the decision in order to launch my business that I would not give product away. I researched going prices. I have paid a fortune in gear and education. I need to recoup that. I would not sell my knowledge or my investment short. I might spend more time creating my final product so that it salable. I actually fired a client where I had underpriced the job initially. I completed two series of product shots and did not accept the third because I underpriced the work and now gained the experience. For the sake of good public relations as a photographer, I gently told him that it was not a good fit for me to do that type of photography. This is my business experience telling me that if I kept doing that, I will not be able to fund my lifestyle or my future business.

Good point Kathy
Years ago when I did restart my photography work, it happened to me that I had to prove that I was able to do the job.
I did not want to do it for free so, for 3 or 4 clients, I remember that I proposed them:
No bargain, I won't do this job for you for free, but if you agree, I'll do the shoot, if you like it buy it the regular price, If you don't, it's mine and I'll keep it…
Guess what, they all paid after having seen the shots.

This is to say that there are always people to get profit of newbies that want to prove their skills, when these will increase their price or just want to get paid, those people will quit and search for a new newbie (if I may say). Run far from these easy profit makers!

In the meantime, doing a job for free is not fair towards other photogs, there is not any more the famous competition.
Competition should remain skill competition.

Giving for free is selling your soul… I do prefer the soul to be sailing ;-)

Building a book with pictures shot for free with friends is another story, this is not breaking the market.

Going back for a second to Asher's post, I do agree with him, nothing against Gary, who, once more doesn't give for free but in a certain way, buy the right to work… another way to get into the market and to lock the competition with a sort of exclusivity.

[Angelica Oung]

No bargain, I won't do this job for you for free, but if you agree, I'll do the shoot, if you like it buy it the regular price, If you don't, it's mine and I'll keep it…
Guess what, they all paid after having seen the shots.


That's certainly another way to get one's foot in the door, and a great deal for the photographer too since if the client turns down the shots, you still get (hopefully good) pics for your portfolilo. Also, it shows confidence in your work. Thanks for sharing.

As for myself, I still think that there are ways of giving away 'baksheesh' without giving away the farm. Maybe low-rez shots that look great on the computer but can't used to make nice prints? Or perhaps the prints can be emblazoned with a watermark so that those who are cheap will have to put up with a marred image...or call the number also conveniently printed on the image itself.

[Nicolas Claris]

As for myself, I still think that there are ways of giving away 'baksheesh' without giving away the farm. Maybe low-rez shots that look great on the computer but can't used to make nice prints? Or perhaps the prints can be emblazoned with a watermark so that those who are cheap will have to put up with a marred image...or call the number also conveniently printed on the image itself.

Bonjour Angelica
I, obviously as you, don't like the 'baksheesh' way, I don't think it is convenient in our western culture. It is a way to pass over the skills. IOW you get the job because you've bought the 'right to do it'. Hmmm.

As for watermarks, lowres and all this stuff sure you're right. However much of the market is now lowres on the web. The photogs qualities (technically and artistically) have nothing to do with the resolution.

I have on the web hundreds of my pics that have been stolen (used without permission) and shown on commercial websites.

If you have a look on my site you'll see lot of pics without or with very discrete watermark because I wanted people to be able to take them if they like'm for private use such as screen background, now these images are spreaded and used by people who make money thru them!

Do I need to say that a new version with 'aggressive" watermark will be launched soon?

So lowres isn't a solution, if you want to make your living with photography, you have to fight all the ideas that contains the word 'free'.
Because, otherwise, on the long term we won't stay 'free', we'll all loose:
- us our job
- customers image quality

[Alain Briot]

if you want to make your living with photography, you have to fight all the ideas that contains the word 'free'.
Because, otherwise, on the long term we won't stay 'free', we'll all loose:
- us our job
- customers image quality

I totally agree. When in business, your work, your images, are your product. Your product is what you make a living from, therefore you don't give it away. People will not want to pay you for it if they can have it for free!

If you want to give something free, then give something that is not your work, not your prints, or not your professional skills. I have given free camera accessories for examples, or other promotional items. I don't sell these, so there is no conflict between what I give and what I sell.

[Aaron Strasburg]

Alain's business model is different from many if not most here, but it's all business. If you don't make enough to cover your expenses you won't be in business long. You may be able to make a little cash on the side from your "real" job, but if you ever hope to make the transition to making a living from photography undercutting everyone else in the market isn't going to make it any easier.

This from a pure amateur who has never sold a print, so take it for what it's worth. I have considered selling prints of my own images, but the idea of being responsible for photographing someone's wedding scares the hell out of me so I don't think I'm likely to go that route.

I think I've mentioned this before, but John Harrington's book (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1598633155?tag=dcsegways-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1598633155&adid=17CD5WBQK2CVV4PHE76Z&) and blog (http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/) on this subject are worth reading.

Aaron

[Alain Briot]

Alain's business model is different from many if not most here, but it's all business. If you don't make enough to cover your expenses you won't be in business long. You may be able to make a little cash on the side from your "real" job, but if you ever hope to make the transition to making a living from photography undercutting everyone else in the market isn't going to make it any easier.

This from a pure amateur who has never sold a print, so take it for what it's worth. I have considered selling prints of my own images, but the idea of being responsible for photographing someone's wedding scares the hell out of me so I don't think I'm likely to go that route.

I think I've mentioned this before, but John Harrington's book (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1598633155?tag=dcsegways-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1598633155&adid=17CD5WBQK2CVV4PHE76Z&) and blog (http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/) on this subject are worth reading.

Aaron

Good points. You have to do what is comfortable to you. I don't like the idea of shooting weddings for a living either. I have never done it although I studied with photographers who do weddings for a living and do very well with it. The marketing of wedding photographs is quite interesting and very different from the marketing of landscape images.

[Kathy Rappaport]

I have an Accounting practice and I am trying to transition into photography....My marketing experience originally was in Banking and Finance. As I have studied marketing in depth, and selling home mortgages for many years in my first career - also a dog-eat-dog enviornment, I can say, selling Wedding Photography is certainly not one of the easier careers from a marketing perspective, especially in a city as large as Los Angeles. Talk about competitive edge - whoa!

[Alain Briot]

I have an Accounting practice and I am trying to transition into photography....My marketing experience originally was in Banking and Finance. As I have studied marketing in depth, and selling home mortgages for many years in my first career - also a dog-eat-dog enviornment, I can say, selling Wedding Photography is certainly not one of the easier careers from a marketing perspective, especially in a city as large as Los Angeles. Talk about competitive edge - whoa!

I agree. It takes a lot to succeed.

[Jerome Love]

Wow, first off this thread has opened my eyes even more! Most of you are established pros or established photogs in your area. My question is then : What are some ways that an avid amateur like myself can get my foot in the door? I've already taken a low-paid internship and have done some "baksheesh" (to my dismay) but what can I do to better market myself. I know I have the skills and the eye for weddings and have already dived into the concert and portrait scene. How do I separate myself from that "budget" label?

[Alain Briot]

How do I separate myself from that "budget" label?

First, you don't charge budget prices. What you charge is a reflection of how much you value your work. If you charge budget prices you are basically saying that you are doing budget work.

[Jerome Love]

Truth and I've started to pull away from being lenient on pricing. What about getting my foot in the door for weddings? I know the environment ( I've assisted many times) and I know how to make the shots? How do I market myself appropiately.

[Alain Briot]

How do I market myself appropiately.

You have to have something unique, something that no one else has.

[Asher Kelman]

Truth and I've started to pull away from being lenient on pricing. What about getting my foot in the door for weddings? I know the environment ( I've assisted many times) and I know how to make the shots? How do I market myself appropiately.

You have to have something unique, something that no one else has.

Not necessarily, Alain!

It is sufficient in a market like wedding photography to assist a pro. Eventually there will be a job he/she cannot take. So if you have established a good relationship, you might be offered the job. So you must be ready.

In addition, network. Hear about an engagement or planned wedding, give your card.

You need a portfolio of your own work and a website. As Alain would say, you need a description of yourself, an artist's statement, so to speak that says "who you are". Then people think they know you and might trust you.

Everything you do must be professional from your website and stationary to attitude, manners and way you deal with clients, especially punctuality and keeping promises.

After just a few jobs, you will get referrals by word of mouth. When you have managed your first 4 weddings on your name, (with an assistant I hope and duplicate everything) and pictures were delviered as promised, I'd start advertising and meeting wedding planners, church and synagogues so that you might get on their lists of possible photographers.

Don't advertize until you are sure you can take care of any eventuality and things are perfect. Getting a bunch of weddings that don't turn out well would be an efficient way of killing your market in you area.

Selling fine art is rather different. Alain, by example has customers all over and if they don't like the print he can correct that! You can't do that with the couple's first kiss!

Asher

[Alain Briot]

Asher,

That's all true but when you look at the top wedding photographers they each have something unique.

And no, I don't correct my prints. People who don't like them can return them if they want using my 100%, 1 year money back warranty.

[Jerome Love]

Thanks so much for breaking that down Asher. That's really what I needed. I also appreciate your input of bring something unique to the table Alan. This thread has really helped me alot.

[Asher Kelman]

Asher,

That's all true but when you look at the top wedding photographers they each have something unique.

Hi Alain,

His job is to start by being competant and reliable and then find styles he admires and gradualy find the skill, insight and wisdom to develop his own with which he can distinguish himself. Unlike fine art that you are producing, being "Good enough" can earn him a good living. For you, the many extra steps to becoming an artist with a unique voice and vision and following is a long way off. He needs, above all competance, reliablility and a good reputation which is not really hard for a dedicated photographer to achieve in most large American cities, for example.

Being an artist with a unique vision and following requires, in my opinion, much more than hard work, competence and dedication!


And no, I don't correct my prints. People who don't like them can return them if they want using my 100%, 1 year money back warranty.

My English meaning was, I thought straightforward! If people do not like the print for any reason you exchange it! I never meant to imply you "corrected it" if you did, I'd be aghast unless it was some curling of the paper or such that you wanted to swop out, for example!


Asher

[Alain Briot]

Asher,

OK :-)

[Matt Suess]

Truth and I've started to pull away from being lenient on pricing. What about getting my foot in the door for weddings? I know the environment ( I've assisted many times) and I know how to make the shots? How do I market myself appropiately.

Jerome,

Asher made some great points that I would like to expand upon. Photographing weddings is something I used to do throughout my photography career and what follows is what helped me.

Networking is huge for the wedding photographer, especially when starting up. Try joining a local Chamber of Commerce. You may also look into a networking group - one that comes to mind is BNI - Business Networking International. Get to know wedding photographers in your area and establish good business relations with them. If they have a client request for a date they are already booked, they may send that client on to you. Meet with people from the places that hold weddings - many keep a list of photographers that they recommend. For many brides, their first stop in the planning is the wedding venue.

There are many online wedding resources for the bride. Research them. Many sites allow you to add your business to them for free, and others charge for the service. Costs are less than magazine advertising and I feel are more worthwhile especially when starting out.

And nothing beats word of mouth referrals. Do a great job for a bride and groom, and they will tell everyone who it was that made their day special.

[Marc Hankins]

Brief interjection here -

I just want to say this is a brilliant thread. I'm literally in the middle of planning how to market myself in my area so every scrap of information and opinion here is being absorbed into my train of thought.

I do just want to reinforce what has already been said here a lot. Pricing is very important in how you market yourself, every single business article I've read and studied has always screamed "DON'T DO STUFF FOR FREE!" and undercutting is an equally bad thing to do, especially by large amounts of money.

My business will be brand new when I manage to get everything up and running, but I have the confidence to not do anything for free that isn't a personal job I'm doing for my own entertainment, and even then I try to make something from it.

One thing i noticed from working in retail, is how pricing systems can work. I used to sell cameras, and a good example of whats going on here is that there was a new camera. It was possibly worth about £150, however it was temporarily priced at £300. It didn't even look that special, but the customers saw the price and assumed something had to be REALLY good about it, admittedly these weren't the savviest of customers. Several of these were purchased practically on the price alone! No complaints at all.

What do we learn? Some customers will purchase something with a price expectation in mind, because they think that the higher the price, the better the quality. This story can be applied here, if you DO price too cheaply people might ignore you on the basis that they'll assume you're not good enough, clearly thats not the case, so don't cheap yourself out. Just be confident.

You wouldn't expect a big company to give you a product they sell for free, nor would they shy away from making a profit, so why the hell should any of us? I think having a capitalist view on business / the world would help any new starters. Look for any opportunity to make money!

One last point, and one which i think is VERY important. I want to repeat what was mentioned earlier by Asher Kelman.

Don't advertize until you are sure you can take care of any eventuality and things are perfect.


Please do argue with me if you think anything I've said here is wrong!

[Alain Briot]

Yes, price defines everything. The perceived value of your product, as you explain, as well as the respect you get from customers, the number of complaints, and of course your lifestyle as a whole. Pricing is one of the most important aspects of marketing.

[David Sommars]

In my small experience, The people giving out freebies are usually not versed in that industry, so they are trying to get expirience that way. There is always a constant wave of people who are doing some work for free, or on the cheap.

As their gear gets better and they get more experience, they realize they cannot survive or progress this way. They will weed themselves out I believe,

also everyone needs to start somewhere, everyone who shoots weddings did a friend or families wedding for cheap or free somewhere along the line. So when you hear stories about this, you have to think to yourself, if this is a beginner, then its not even close to apples and apples.

The first 2 weddings I shot were friends and family, I did them cheap and in exchange for memory cards, I learned a LOT and also they were in no position to pay anyone anyways. These weddings were in cheap hotel lobbies and dry old parks at 12 noon. These weddings are just fodder for expiramenting and learning. No beginner photographer is going to land a destinations wedding for 300 -500$ it just doesnt happen, nothing to worry about there,

With pro -sports shooting the official guys with a copyright to control (security) take care of beginners, if you have the clearence to shoot your in good hands, if not your not making any money anyways.

with horsey stuff, and little league stuff and dirt track racing, all un-sanctioned stuff, its prob a lot more tricky. People dont know who to buy from, they just can see the results and prob your equipment, I would dress professional, have examples of your best work and be courteous, this should set you apart from the amateur easily.

So, in actuality not everything a beginner gives away robs anyone of anything.
In some cases it can even help. it will vary per industry and location, but for example the beginner giving away weddings for cheap is 85% most likely shooting stuff either noone else wants, and thats because the B&G cant afford more then 300$

Instead of complain about this we should be improving our work and making sure we are getting noticed by the right people and stop worrying about the slush market.

Educating the general public about quality photography is more noble a concern I think.


Just thoughts, didnt mean to go on a rant... lol

[Alain Briot]

David,

I think that's an accurate analysis. People who give their work away for free devalue it. Therefore why should their competition be worried that the freebie givers are going to take away their business? They just made it clear their work isn't worth money and that they don't expect people to pay for it . . .

The other question is how do you go from giving your work away to charging for it? That's an obstacle that many never get over.

[Charles Lupica]

I have just read this whole thread from start to finish and I find it remarkably like the debate between microstock and stock photography. What is the value of an image? What is a good business strategy? And what works for one person may not work for the industry as a whole.

I don't know for sure but I'll bet that giving away images seldom leads to selling a lot more. As has been noted, people and companies that can get "aceptable" images for free or cheaply are not going to come back to you later and offer the going rate. And it's easy to use the excuse that they don't have the money and wouldn't have bought images anyway. We've all been there.

As a matter of fact, I'm there right now. I was out shooting some images for stock and possibly fine-art. One of my current lines of thought is to photograph small, independent stores and their owners. This type of shop has mostly disappeared in the US. Even in the 60's when I was growing up there weren't many left. So I was out photographing and went into a little shop that sells vinegar, oil, falvored liquers, and whisky by the once (100 ml really). I was shooting away and the shop owner ask waht I was doing so I explained. I went on shooting and a little while later she came back and said I couldn't shot ANY pictures unless I was willing to give her pictures for her website. I explained that I am a professional and that she was asking me to give my product away. She made a counter claim that the store layout and display was here work and I couldn't photogrph it without giving her recompense.

People are always looking for a way to get something for nothing. So now I have to give her the photos on the off chance I can sell one as stock or enter it into my "fine-art" collection. I accepted, but with the clause that they could be used for not other purpose; website only, low-res with my web address on the image. But I'm still not sure that this is a good thing. Taking a few pictures shouldn't cause me this much stress. If I wanted stress, I'd photograph weddings :)

[Tim Armes]

I've read and studied has always screamed "DON'T DO STUFF FOR FREE!"

I agree, but there is a valid twist on this.

I've just finished a shoot for what could potentially be a very important client. I knew that I was capable of doing the job, but I didn't have a appropriate portfolio that could show this to the client. Looking to the future I knew that if I could get the job I would be able to add the images to my portfolio as well as being able to list a prestigeous name on my list of clientel.

I therefore offered, well in advance of the event, to take on the work on a "Pay if you're pleased" basis.

I've now finished the shoot and I've put the images on my site for the client to view. I also sent a couple high definition shots so that they can judge the quality. If they're happy then I'll send them the CD of images and the bill + rights usage agreement. If they're not then I don't get anything (but they don't either) but I'll have effectively done a day's work for free.

Given that they normally use some extremely talented photographers I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this technique has given my a foot in the door.

Tim

[Georg Baumann]

I therefore offered, well in advance of the event, to take on the work on a "Pay if you're pleased" basis.


Many years ago a cook had the idea to start a restaurant where there are no prices.

He was an excellent and very creative cook and he was convinced this concept will work.

So he opened his establishment and started to cook for his life, created the most stunning and delicious dishes he could come up with.

Yeah, some people payed him even more what he would have expected and praised his courage and his art. Some people payed him decently, but what he had to learn is that there is a problem.

Once the word spread about his place, the place was booked out very quick and you had to reserve a table. But it was crowded with people who thought it would be great fun to dine the finest food and then discuss the dinner with the chef, complain about lack of quality and pay him 1 dollar only and leave.

Needless to say, the restaurant did not surrvive and closed the doors.

[Tim Armes]

Many years ago a cook had the idea to start a restaurant where there are no prices.

Hi Georg,

The analogy doesn't work because I didn't say that I asked them to pay however much they thought my work was worth. I set my fee in advance, as usual.

However, if they don't accept the images then they won't receive them and I won't send a bill.

Tim

[Jerome Love]

Blogging- The blogosphere has especially erupted lately because of all the political buzz, why not get your name out there? Even if it is off-topic, people who are interested in politics still get photos made!

[Asher Kelman]

Blogging- The blogosphere has especially erupted lately because of all the political buzz, why not get your name out there? Even if it is off-topic, people who are interested in politics still get photos made!
Hi Jerome,

What one needs is to decide on your financial goal, your mental and physical resources and what you can do to achieve your goal by a target date.

You have already decided on your occupation, but will it be full time? Do you have a studio and your own gear for lighting etc? I'd write out a business plan and if you do, perhaps you could hire someone like Kathy Rappaport to go over it. If you did that, I'd look at it too. Yes, local networking is important: stakeholders in weddings, (caterers, chapels, church, synagogue, temple etc, florists and furniture rentals, wedding gown stores, Tux rental stores, Chamber of Commerce etc. Get assistant jobs for several pros. build a portfolio. As you are doing, update your website. You're here and on the right track!

Blogging off topic? Not likely to have payoff beyond some glee in perplexing the folk!

Asher :)

[Kathy Rappaport]

Actually, Asher, the Social Networking sites are great places to get your name out there. They increase traffic. People searching through the social networks often will search for photographers where they can see their work. I've started posting images to Facebook to create some buzz there. I set up a blog - some photographers have even done away with traditional websites for blogs only. Not only is the world changing but so it the www.

But, yes, you are right you can't do anything without some planning. It doesn't just happen unless you make it happen. And you need a business and marketing plan to follow to get there.

[Asher Kelman]

I agree, but there is a valid twist on this.

I've just finished a shoot for what could potentially be a very important client. I knew that I was capable of doing the job, but I didn't have a appropriate portfolio that could show this to the client. Looking to the future I knew that if I could get the job I would be able to add the images to my portfolio as well as being able to list a prestigeous name on my list of clientel.

I therefore offered, well in advance of the event, to take on the work on a "Pay if you're pleased" basis.

I've now finished the shoot and I've put the images on my site for the client to view. I also sent a couple high definition shots so that they can judge the quality. If they're happy then I'll send them the CD of images and the bill + rights usage agreement. If they're not then I don't get anything (but they don't either) but I'll have effectively done a day's work for free.

Given that they normally use some extremely talented photographers I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this technique has given my a foot in the door.

Tim,

How's this worked! I'd be very interested in how you'd present this option today with more protection for your work, perhaps.

Asher :)

[Jerome Love]

Hi Jerome,

What one needs is to decide on your financial goal, your mental and physical resources and what you can do to achieve your goal by a target date.

You have already decided on your occupation, but will it be full time? Do you have a studio and your own gear for lighting etc? I'd write out a business plan and if you do, perhaps you could hire someone like Kathy Rappaport to go over it. If you did that, I'd look at it too. Yes, local networking is important: stakeholders in weddings, (caterers, chapels, church, synagogue, temple etc, florists and furniture rentals, wedding gown stores, Tux rental stores, Chamber of Commerce etc. Get assistant jobs for several pros. build a portfolio. As you are doing, update your website. You're here and on the right track!

Blogging off topic? Not likely to have payoff beyond some glee in perplexing the folk!

Asher :)


Asher,

I appreciate the guidance. I do intend to do this full time, but I do have a fall back with the marketing degree which in today's world is almost recession proof(high-end mortuaries?haha). I'm taking a Portraiture and Wedding Photography course here at the community college which has been very helpful in improving my current skills and exposing me to much of the unknown business side. I'm fortunate that one of my classmates(she's actually the mother of a girl I've known for years) specializes in business development and is going to help me build a focused business strategy and develop it into a plan. I appreciate the warm [re]welcome and generous guidance. I'm glad I'm here.

To the topic,

I agree with Kathy here. The WWW is changing, as with the world. There are so many elements to that but you will notice that social networking is a huge market that photographer's have yet to fully tap into. How many aspiring myspace, facebook, twitter insert passion here are outthere? Of that many, how many know YOU can provide photographs to cover, promote them?If that's not your market, you'll find many businesses as well on social networks.

Referring to a portfolio and Tim. I currently use my iPod touch as a on-the-go portfolio. If someone asks to see my work, I can hand it to them and allow them to interact with it! They are a few ways this can go, what do you think?

[Matt Suess]

I currently use my iPod touch as a on-the-go portfolio. If someone asks to see my work, I can hand it to them and allow them to interact with it! They are a few ways this can go, what do you think?

That is an excellent tool to use. I have been using my iPhone at art festivals to allow those in my booth to view photos I don't have with me. I show them my website on it at the festival as well, and have sent emails to them direct from the show on pieces they were considering. I also have a TV interview I recently did stored on the iPhone to show interested collectors.

Matt Suess

[Tim Armes]

Tim,

How's this worked! I'd be very interested in how you'd present this option today with more protection for your work, perhaps.

Asher :)

Hi,

Well, the client liked the images and they did pay me. They then invited me back a month or two later to take more photos, so in this instance the risk paid off.

Regards,

Tim