A legal Question

Hi all,

Who owns the Rights on a Picture/image?


Is it the Photographer or the one that gets photographed?


Here is the take, there is no formal agreement between the two on the ownership of the images or the rights on them.

Thanking you for any input.

Regards,

TB

Hi Taha
It really depends of the country!
In France and most European countries, whatever photographer may sign, the photog onws the picture and it's related (family) for 25 years after his/her death.
However a photographer MUST have the autorization of the person(s) photographed to sell or exhbit the picture, it becomes very complicated as there are exception like a person photographed while exrcising it's profession in public (a politician for example).
I always have in my gear bag a paper ready to be signed by the people that can be RECOGNIZED on my pictures.

I think te above is not true/the same in the USA

Some interesting links:
In French:
UPC
http://www.copyrightfrance.com/phtml/index.php

In English:
http://www.stockphoto.net/Associations.php#WCPP
http://www.editorialphoto.com/copyright/
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/

Hih

Who owns the Rights on a Picture/image? Is it the Photographer or the one that gets photographed? Here is the take, there is no formal agreement between the two on the ownership of the images or the rights on them.

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Even if there is nothing written, if there was a workrelationship photographer/model that lead to photos, this already constitues a formality where probably both parties have certain rights.

If memory serves you are in Dubai, would that be right? Your best bet would be to talk to a professional agency in Dubai and ask thier advise, however, in general:

Interesting site with tons of information on the subject:

http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html

Model Release From Example:

http://www.alamy.com/contributors/Alamy-stock-photography-model-release-form.pdf

http://www.istockphoto.com/docs/modelrelease.pdf

In the USA, you do not need permission for news stories or editorial work.

Public figures in the US are free game for photographing in public!

However, private people you can photograph but cannot always commericalize them. For example one can't take a picture of a man crossing the road and include recognizable features and use that for stock photography. You may be able to use them for an art exhibition and even sell you artwork!

You shoud not publish your pictures just anywhere. If they are put in a page about pornography or cheating wives, then you could be creating a case of libel per quod or damaging the person by virtue of the setting. If you are not part of that decision, the editor not you are in the hot seat!

In general, it's pretty useless to have a perfect picture you can only show to friends because you didn't get consent!

So do as Nicolas does. Forget the law, as we are not lawyers, just get consent from everyone who has a face!

Also know who you license pictures to and have it that they too must abide by the limitations you set, for example not to demean the perosn shown, to pay further licensing fees, to atribute the image to you and so forth. That's the benefit of working with an agency. They do ths for you.

Asher

Note! This is not legal advice, just what I believe is the law from my reading and experience!

Asher Kelman said:

So do as Nicolas does. Forget the law, as we are not lawyers, just get consent from everyone who has a face!

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Asher, Taha is a model, not a photog…

As we don't know about Dubaï rules, I strongly suggest that Taha goes to see a layer to know is exact rights.

Fees paid to a (good) layer is always a good invetsment in a proffessional environment.

For both the photog and the model, working on a friendly basis or in a wrong understanding/interpretation (i.e. using a model release written for another country) of the law may drive to a large cost or… disappointment!
I know what I'm speaking about ;-(

Thank you all for the Input,


First, I did an Logo-Add for the Dubai Tv which is ofcourse a part of government of UAE, The agency that shot the Add which is the TAG line of the TV, Told me that it will run for 3months only, But now its still running for 3yrs.

The agency told me that I will get royalty if the add runs over the period of 3months!


I didnt got anything, Even the agancy has no formal written agreements with me.


I do not want to do anything about this simply because my motive was just to see myself on a screen.


In the End we are all in good terms. I am not a greedy person, I value friends over anything in this world.



But this Morning I received this mail, from a person who just wanted to photograph! and most of her photo were my ideas because I guided her on the Loccal culture and heritage.


OUT-OF-BLUE-MOON She tells me that I must get her permission if I ever Want to use my own photos anywhere.


I have not gained any monetary benefits from the pictures, While she is MILKING it. And on Top of that she gives me this B.ull.s.hit! (Excuse my language)


Give me a break, This a joke!

Taha,

Sorry to hear that, I think you more than likely will find more persons in your life that cherish $ over true friendship. I am not astonished.

However, if you consider a career as a model, you really should insist on fromal agreements before shootings, and get the propper advise on such agreements upfront.

Hi Taha,

As you may well be aware of, Dubai is still developing many of its laws. I have discussed the topic of photographer's rights and model's rights here with a few photographers and there seems to be no one that known exactly what the law says, if it says anything in this matter.

However, contracts are obviously respected, as well as model release forms. These are the two things you need to get the next time around. For this time, you're only options is to get a lawyer. However, without any paperwork I don't see it going in your favor, especially with regards to Dubai TV. You want to take on the government?

Hi Taha,

Welcome to the real world. ;-)

ever Want to use my own photos anywhere.

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They are _her_ photos. She pressed the button, she has the negatives, digitals whatever, but you've still got your face. Next time, sort out the paperwork first.

In the meanyime, let her do the donkey work of getting your face plastered everywhere, doing the advertising for you. If its the competition winning entry, well it is just your face, isn't it, no interesting background. I guess it was she who won the competition, not you, she entered her photo. You needn't work with her again, unless you've signed some wrong paperwork. Maybe you need to get an agent or someone. It is very, very difficult to mix business and friends, it is very difficult to make business partnerships work.

wrt to the tv, if you just wanted the publicity, great, you're getting a few more years for free.

When this stuff happens, you feel pissed off, let down, etc. But, you will move on. It is all part of the rich fabric of life. I learnt this sometime ago, I have my own way of working through similar problems. At the end of the day, it's only money, and that is cheap.

Best wishes,

Ray

Ray West said:

Hi Taha,

Welcome to the real world. ;-)

They are _her_ photos.

In the meanyime, let her do the donkey work of getting your face plastered everywhere
Ray

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Hi there Ray,

You words just made me feel bettter over this whole affair! Yes I agree, they are hers photo, But according to the UAE culture/law No person should be photographed without their permission, so basically In UAE I have the larger share over the images than her! (I think)


I donot have any problems with what she does with the photos, But whats appalling is that She is telling me that I should not use My Pictures???

KrisCarnmarker said:

Hi Taha,

As you may well be aware of, Dubai is still developing many of its laws. I have discussed the topic of photographer's rights and model's rights here with a few photographers and there seems to be no one that known exactly what the law says, if it says anything in this matter.

However, contracts are obviously respected, as well as model release forms. These are the two things you need to get the next time around. For this time, you're only options is to get a lawyer. However, without any paperwork I don't see it going in your favor, especially with regards to Dubai TV. You want to take on the government?

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Hi Kris,

There are laws here protecting the Copyrighted materials, but i am more than sure that she has NOT copyrighted the images... For her to do that, The Ministry of Commerce needs my constent (again I think)


When 'My' photo (photographed by her) won at the competition, The Minister of arts and Culture was there And He Congratulated me about the Image!


This is what, All this business is just getting TOO complicated!


As for Dubai Tv I have no dealing with them, my dealing was with the agency, I could have sued them for this But Its NOT my motive! I am thankful that they gave me the opportunity to come on TV, After all I am not George Clooney or Brad Pitt to demand at this stage.


I am in good terms with them.

Hi Taha,

I'm glad you took my comments in the spirit in which they were intended. Here's a bit of info for you - http://www.zu.ac.ae/library/html/UAEInfo/documents/UAECopyright.pdf. Mind you, I think you may have four judicial systems to satisfy - maybe you consider emigrating ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray

Ray West said:

Hi Taha,

I'm glad you took my comments in the spirit in which they were intended. Here's a bit of info for you - http://www.zu.ac.ae/library/html/UAEInfo/documents/UAECopyright.pdf. Mind you, I think you may have four judicial systems to satisfy - maybe you consider emigrating ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray

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Thanks for that Ray, A letter to Al Tamimi Law office is in Order