No Fill flash /Fill Flash [Archive] - Open Photography Forums

Cem_Usakligil

June 17th, 2007, 03:13 PM

Asher Kelman

June 17th, 2007, 03:57 PM

So using the fill flash makes a difference even when deployed at such distances under harsh daylight. Just look at the rocks accross the bay entrance, impressive!

Which flash dit you use, the 580EX? At what power level?

Cheers,

Na na NAH!!

No way the flash is lighting the sky and making it brighter! The exposure setting or brightness has been changed between the two pictures!!!!

Or where am I mistaken :) Nicolas?

Asher

Ron Morse

June 17th, 2007, 03:58 PM

Bonjour Nicolas,

Did the fill flash make all that difference or was some PS involved?

My wife and I watched a French man, wife and two children on a French tv station a few weeks ago sail from France to South America and back. Made me think of you.

Kathy Rappaport

June 17th, 2007, 08:23 PM

The flag on that ship is either Spain, Portugal or Italy...not that anyone asked - I think Portugal.
But, why do I like the no fill flash better - it looks more realistic to me. Something is off.

Asher Kelman

June 17th, 2007, 09:29 PM

The flag on that ship is either Spain, Portugal or Italy...not that anyone asked - I think Portugal.
But, why do I like the no fill flash better - it looks more realistic to me. Something is off.

Kathy,

Untill we know what is done to each, then we can't say which is better for your taste. Either one can be most probably adjusted to suit you. I reallly wonder about the total exposure of the second picture.

Asher

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 02:10 AM

You've all been fooled by the 24 mm, boat and island are not far at all.

However this is a first try for me to shoot fill flash on a so wide outside area with a big white hull just in front, just like a bride's dress...
It is possible that the fill flash exposure have been overexposed as we're at 1/250 (which is max speed for fill flsh) this would explain the sky.

But I find this very interesting, bringing colors to water (at foreground) and there's a lot of room for down expose the raw, the result wil be much more nice that with the no fill flash.

My intention for the whole shoot was to bring light and clarity, there we are!

Flash was Canon 580 ex ETTL standard settings (power could have been lowered, I agree)

NO PS except batch sharpening action (same for both pics)

EXIFs

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/EXIFs.gif

Lighroom workflow

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/LightRoom.jpg

Cem_Usakligil

June 18th, 2007, 02:24 AM

You've all been fooled by the 24 mm, boat and island are not far at all...

Indeed! I tend to forget the effects of a 24mm or wider. Only yesterday I was shooting subjects which were only a couple of feet away from me using my 12-24mm, the end results look as if they were many meters (x3 feet approx.) away.

Re. you playing nasty exposure tricks on us; call me naive but I've trusted your original post inherently since it came from you Nicolas. So next time you decide to pull a rabbit out of your hat, I'll be an excellent and foremost victim <LOL>.

Cheers,

PS: I can't help but notice that you use the "flourish"panel end marks in LR! A renaissance man with a feeling for flair, indeed <big grin>

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 02:28 AM

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 02:31 AM

PS: I can't help but notice that you use the "flourish"panel end marks in LR! A renaissance man with a feeling for flair, indeed <big grin>

Hi Cem

what do you mean? I don't get it, what is "flourish"panel end marks?

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 02:33 AM

I would add that in LR, for "Fill flash" workflow, exposure is set to -0,30 (it could even be lowered a bit more) and that brightness is lower than on the "No fill flash" one...

Cem_Usakligil

June 18th, 2007, 02:35 AM

Hi Cem

what do you mean? I don't get it, what is "flourish"panel end marks?
Hi Nicolas,

I mean the ornamental looking marks that are at the bottom of your LR screen captures, just above the words Fill Flash. You can get rid of them in the LR: Edit > Preferences > Interface > Panel End Marks > Set to None, box or flourish.

Cheers,

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 02:36 AM

Re. you playing nasty exposure tricks on us…

Why that? no trick there!

Cem_Usakligil

June 18th, 2007, 02:43 AM

Why that? no trick there!
Sorry for my tongue-in-the-cheek style, sometimes I assume that all can follow my somewhat dry humour. Prior to your explanatory reply, others such as Asher and Ron have "hinted"at the possibilty that the exposure of the second image was much higher thus it could not have all been caused by the fill in flash only. So I saw a joke in there, about the possibility that you were playing tricks on us just to test our powers of observation <smile>. Hence my reference to a non-existant trick.

I hope I've made myself clear now, phew! <big smile>

Cheers,

Steve Saunders

June 18th, 2007, 03:34 AM

The almost couple of stops difference in shutter speed between both shots will explain the brightness overall. I use fill-flash outdoors all the time, but actually prefer the first shot here.

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 05:05 AM

Hi Nicolas,

I mean the ornamental looking marks that are at the bottom of your LR screen captures, just above the words Fill Flash. You can get rid of them in the LR: Edit > Preferences > Interface > Panel End Marks > Set to None, box or flourish.

Cheers,

Wow! that's a neat tip! I'll get rid of it immediately…

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 05:06 AM

Sorry for my tongue-in-the-cheek style, sometimes I assume that all can follow my somewhat dry humour. Prior to your explanatory reply, others such as Asher and Ron have "hinted"at the possibilty that the exposure of the second image was much higher thus it could not have all been caused by the fill in flash only. So I saw a joke in there, about the possibility that you were playing tricks on us just to test our powers of observation <smile>. Hence my reference to a non-existant trick.

I hope I've made myself clear now, phew! <big smile>

Cheers,

yes, <big smile> <big smile>

Tim Armes

June 18th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Hi Nicolas,

What an incredible flash you have :) For a start, the flash has distributed its incredible amount of light evenly across the whole boat without any fall-off. Furthermore, it's apparently made a huge difference to those dark rocks behind the boat whilst not blowing out the exposure on the boat itself. The white boat. Amazing - you've successfully overcome the inverse square law... :)

Fortunately, your settings show that physics had remained firmly steadfast with respect to your particuly flash unit. What has happened however is that the camera's shutter speed went from 1/640 to 1/250, the X-Sync speed, the aperture and ISO remained fixed and therefore the exposure increased by over a stop.

Tim

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 10:47 AM

Hi Tim

I'll convey to the flash unit your congrats ;-)

Otherwise I do agree with you about the overexposure, I did write it already in the post together with the EXIFs:
It is possible that the fill flash exposure have been overexposed as we're at 1/250 (which is max speed for fill flsh) this would explain the sky.

I have more shots (but no interest to show them here) where I've been carefully be at 1/250 or less, the lighting effect are still good though not overexposed.

I did post these 2 pics as they are easily comparable (same subject, same framing, same light etc.

This way of enlighting is not new, but it is new to me! and I'm happy to have tried it as the results are much better than hilight/shadow CS filter (even if that one has saved a lot of pics before!)

Nikolai Sklobovsky

June 18th, 2007, 11:16 AM

Michael Fontana

June 18th, 2007, 12:39 PM

Perdu!
Italy!

Isn't Cala Galera on the beautifull east coast of Sardegna?
Meanwhile "Li" on the yacht looks being Liguria to me.

Nicolas,
I'm not sure but IMHO, Jeff (Schewe) was showing that on ACR 2.x....

BTW; How do you like LR?
Vers 1.1 should be pretty improved.

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 01:14 PM

Isn't Cala Galera on the beautifull east coast of Sardegna?
Meanwhile "Li" on the yacht looks being Liguria to me.

Nicolas,
I'm not sure but IMHO, Jeff (Schewe) was showing that on ACR 2.x....

BTW; How do you like LR?
Vers 1.1 should be pretty improved.

Hey! Bonjour Michael!

I think you confuse with Cala di Volpe (you may point here in Google Earth (http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/Cala-di-Volpe.kmz.zip) it's a zipped kmz file that will download, if you have Google Earth, double click it and fasten your seat belt, you're not any more under control!)

Cala Galera is a small marina that is situated just North of Port Ercole. This is 150 KM North of Fiumicino in the south part of Toscania. This kmz (http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/Photo-Wauquiez-PS47.kmz.zip) will point you within Google Earth to the exact place where the shot was done!

Yes LI is Liguria, but you know sometimes boats do travel!

What do you mean about Jeff (Schewe)? I don't get it…

LR (I'm still using 1.0) is easy for batching 1000 pics, but for hi res I really do prefer the new ACR (wow!) and C1 of which I wait for the new version, they are behind ACR for now…

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 01:16 PM

Nicolas,
next time you may wanna use High Synch Speed mode of 580.
That way you can both dim the light (it's said to be 30% dimmer) and use whatever shutter speed you want, thus avoiding overexposure..
Just a thought.

Thanks Nicolaï, I do know, but my learning curve is step by step... as I can only do my testing "in real life"…-) but you're fully right!

Asher Kelman

June 18th, 2007, 01:33 PM

Nicolas,
next time you may wanna use High Synch Speed mode of 580.
That way you can both dim the light (it's said to be 30% dimmer) and use whatever shutter speed you want, thus avoiding overexposure..
Just a thought.

Hi Nikolai,

Good to see your post. There's a choice here. One could, and there's no reason not to, adding a neutral density filter or using ISO 100 to get correct exposure for the sky at 1/250th sec or else close that 2.8 to 4.0 if the planned composition allows it.

So where would you decide on using high speed flash under these circumstances. IOW, Nikolai, why would you use it when the over-exposure of the sky, for sure (and likely the rocks too) is nothing to do with the flash.

I do not use the fast synch flash, so I'd appreciate hearing your own decision tree. :)

Asher

Nicolas Claris

June 18th, 2007, 01:46 PM

Hi Nikolai,

Good to see your post. There's a choice here. One could, and there's no reason not to, adding a neutral density filter or using ISO 100 to get correct exposure for the sky at 1/250th sec or else close that 2.8 to 4.0 if the planned composition allows it.

So where would you decide on using high speed flash under these circumstances. IOW, Nikolai, why would you use it when the over-exposure of the sky, for sure (and likely the rocks too) is nothing to do with the flash.

I do not use the fast synch flash, so I'd appreciate hearing your own decision tree. :)

Asher

For DOF my good friend, here is ƒ8 but with if the kids were moving or the boat sailing I may had wished to fire at 1/1000th…

Cem_Usakligil

June 18th, 2007, 01:50 PM

...why would you use it when the over-exposure of the sky, for sure (and likely the rocks too) is nothing to do with the flash...
My humble answer would be: to provide frontal lighting and to descrease the shadows and the contrast, thus to avoid having to retort to "fill light" in LR or "highlights and shadows" in PS. But obviously, you knew this already so I assume you must have another reason for asking this question??

Cheers,

Asher Kelman

June 18th, 2007, 03:17 PM

..when you can use regular fill flash, not high speed synch!

Asher

Nikolai Sklobovsky

June 18th, 2007, 08:09 PM

Asher,

HSS flash is quite different than the regular one. My undertsanding was that in Nicolas' case he was OK with the overall exposure/DOF abut he wanted a brighter boat. This is, in fact, a classic case for the fill flash - boat is fairly close, exposure is OK on the b/g, we simply need the f/g a bit brighter.

Regular flash has its downing limitations for shutter speeds, so if the conditions (DOF, etc) something different, HSS is the natural next step.