40D noise question

After going through problem for over two years with the 20D that I believed were me and turned out to be the camera I don't want it to happen again.

I really like everything about the 40D except for noise. My 20D was far more noise free at every ISO. In fact the 20D had far less noise at ISO 800 than this 40D has at ISO 400. I use noise ninja on almost every shot. It happens with every lense that I own unless the subject is in good light. My tamron 24-135 which was my favorite lense on the 20D is completely useless on the 40D in any light. I attributed that to the fact that the tamron was not designed for digital but even my L glass is noisy.

I want this to be something that I'm doing but I'm seeing it constantly. It doesn't seem to me that I should have to use the high ISO noise reduction at ISO 500. Oh and I have never turned on the hi ISO noise reduction. The camera is set at default. I had the in camera sharpening turned off at first since I prefer to do my own sharpening but put it back to default.


These were with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS with the IS on. Not hurried and the image appeared rock steady.
I use lightroom but these RAWs were converted to TIFFs in dpp, resized and converted to JPEGs in CS2 then save for web just as they came out of the camera. The light was getting low which is the best time to get pictures of moose. Early morning is also a good time and when I have the most problems. That didn't come out the way that I ment it. I mean that I have the same problem morning or evening. Even in the middle of the day if it is a dark day. In good light I couldn't be happier.
These are crops.

ISO 400
f/4
1/160
@ 200mm




ISO 640
f/3.5
1/320
@ 200 mm

Ron,
this is rather surprising input, for me that is. I found 40D being far superior noise-reduction wise than 30D, and by far compared to 20D.
That could be, naturally, due to the fact that I have been using in-camera High ISO Noise Reduction almost exclusively. I have shot several hundred frames in ISO 3200 and, while they do display some noise, it's not even close to what it used to be with the previous models and is very easy to take care of in post. This image, for instance, was taken with ISO3200. Processed yes, but no NN stuff. Granted, it's a fairly quick exposure. This image, however, is 30 sec exposure at ISO800.

Having said that, I will take your input into consideration and when time permits will try to snap a few frames with the High ISO NR function turned off.

Cheers!

Thanks Nicaloi for the reply. I love this camera. When it has good light the images are stunning.

I want very much for it to be something that I am doing wrong. I fear that it might be the camera that I have. When I had the 20D I was told by about everyone that it was me when I had focus problems. I bought a monopod then a tripod, I swaped glass then bought L glass. Turned out the camera had focus problems from day one. My big fear is that this could happen again.

You can see the images that I posted. What do you think?

Ron,
I hear ya. Yeah, it might be the body...
I can see your images, and, frankly, they strike me as someething I totally wouldn't expect to see from 40D under the normal circumstances. Both a kinda soft (IS was on and 1/320 sec?) , bland (heavy overcast? twilight?) and the second one is rather noisy.

Nikolai Sklobovsky said:

Ron,
I hear ya. Yeah, it might be the body...
I can see your images, and, frankly, they strike me as someething I totally wouldn't expect to see from 40D under the normal circumstances. Both a kinda soft (IS was on and 1/320 sec?) , bland (heavy overcast? twilight?) and the second one is rather noisy.

Click to expand...

I was in AV so the camera was choosing the shutter speed. The sun had just set but their was still plenty of light.

You can see the difference between ISO 400 and ISO 640. They were shot less than a minute apart. It is a big disapointment spending hours finding a shot that you like then get this result.

I don't know what to do. Should I send it back to canon? I still have the 20D to use if I have to.

Well, I can tell you one thing: if this has been shot after the sunset, then it may be not you and not the body. I had rather similar experience in shooting wildlife at dusk in Montana, albeit I was at 3200 ;-) My results were very similar to yours: soft, balnd, noisy. However, with 20D I wouldn't even try, since the outcome would be plain horrible (I knew that much).

Ron Morse said:

I was in AV so the camera was choosing the shutter speed. The sun had just set but their was still plenty of light.

Click to expand...

You said you converted the Raws in DPP. What does the histogram look like, before exposure adjustment, if any? Does it look 'exposed to the right'?

Bart

Nikolai Sklobovsky said:

Well, I can tell you one thing: if this has been shot after the sunset, then it may be not you and not the body. I had rather similar experience in shooting wildlife at dusk in Montana, albeit I was at 3200 ;-) My results were very similar to yours: soft, balnd, noisy. However, with 20D I wouldn't even try, since the outcome would be plain horrible (I knew that much).

Click to expand...

I just looked at the time on the RAW and it was at 5:07:20 with sunset being at 5:57 on the 13th. It was cloudy and dull so I thought it was after sunset.

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

You said you converted the Raws in DPP. What does the histogram look like, before exposure adjustment, if any? Does it look 'exposed to the right'?

Bart

Click to expand...

I use DPP as a viewer since I don't have to import to get a good look at the pictures. I must have turned the exposure up .50 in viewing. I didn't realize it and showed the second picture with exposure up .50. That was the only change to the RAW.

The original histogram had the left side at center and the right side 7mm from the right. Exposed to the right but 7mm from touching

To be sure I show the proper picture this is the original with no changes other than size and JPEG.

Here is one straight from the camera RAW with only levels done to it and converted to JPEG. It was however in good light.
Same lense. Camera set to default.

I have a version with PP but this is to show what they can look like straight from the camera in good light.

ISO 200
AV
f/5.6
1/400
70mm

Ron Morse said:

After going through problem for over two years with the 20D that I believed were me and turned out to be the camera I don't want it to happen again.

I really like everything about the 40D except for noise. My 20D was far more noise free at every ISO. In fact the 20D had far less noise at ISO 800 than this 40D has at ISO 400. I use noise ninja on almost every shot. It happens with every lense that I own unless the subject is in good light. My tamron 24-135 which was my favorite lense on the 20D is completely useless on the 40D in any light. I attributed that to the fact that the tamron was not designed for digital but even my L glass is noisy.

I want this to be something that I'm doing but I'm seeing it constantly. It doesn't seem to me that I should have to use the high ISO noise reduction at ISO 500. Oh and I have never turned on the hi ISO noise reduction. The camera is set at default. I had the in camera sharpening turned off at first since I prefer to do my own sharpening but put it back to default.


These were with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS with the IS on. Not hurried and the image appeared rock steady.
I use lightroom but these RAWs were converted to TIFFs in dpp, resized and converted to JPEGs in CS2 then save for web just as they came out of the camera. The light was getting low which is the best time to get pictures of moose. Early morning is also a good time and when I have the most problems. That didn't come out the way that I ment it. I mean that I have the same problem morning or evening. Even in the middle of the day if it is a dark day. In good light I couldn't be happier.
These are crops.

ISO 400
f/4
1/160
@ 200mm




ISO 640
f/3.5
1/320
@ 200 mm

Click to expand...

There is no noise issue here. In the first shot you are at 160 sec at 200MM. Your shutter speed needs to be at least focal lenght or greater. What you see here is motion blur on your moving subject. Unlike my previous Camera (XTi) that I had trouble shooting in low light the 40D high ISO is very good. Learn to trust it when needed and in the shots you took I would have tried 800 or even 1000.

Take notice the background and does not have the blur that the animal does.

Keith Tease said:

There is no noise issue here. In the first shot you are at 160 sec at 200MM. Your shutter speed needs to be at least focal lenght or greater. What you see here is motion blur on your moving subject. Unlike my previous Camera (XTi) that I had trouble shooting in low light the 40D high ISO is very good. Learn to trust it when needed and in the shots you took I would have tried 800 or even 1000.

Take notice the background and does not have the blur that the animal does.

Click to expand...

Kieth thank you for the reply.

With the IS on as it was here. I have taken pictures that I was happy with at 200mm 1/60 before. I was resting the camera and the moose was not moving. He looked at me for quite a while in the same pose. When he put his head down as in the first picture he would stop as in this picture, apparently smelling the ground or whatever. I took probably 20 pictures with the same result in all. I wouldn't have turned up the ISO any higher because the higher the ISO the worse the pictures turn out.

Since this I have been using the high ISO noise reduction and the pictures are MUCH MUCH better.

If you noticed in the second picture at 200mm the shutter speed was 1/320 with the camera rested, IS on and the moose not moving.

Someone whom I trust suggested the camera might not have locked focus in the dim light on the dark moose. I think that is a possibility. Thanks you know who.

With my 20D I spent over 2 years with at least 80% of my pictures out of focus unless I was right up close. I spent a lot of money swapping and buying gear because everyone with a 20D said it was a great camera and it had to be me. I went shooting with a nikon shooter. He left his D2X in the car taking my 20D and I took his D70. When we got back just about every shot that I took with the D70 was excellent and most of his shots with my 20D were out of focus. He said you better send this damn canon in and get it fixed. I sent it in and because I had waited so long had to pay for it my self but canon NJ sent it back right. Then it was a wonderful camera.

I love just about everything about this camera better than the 20D. However when I point into a low light area with the hi ISO nr off the 20D pictures are better every time. With the hi ISO nr on they are pretty darn good.

I'm not saying that it couldn't be me but I don't want to repeat what I went through with the 20D.