Waterfall

Hi Arun,

You did not introduce the picture so I don't know how you came to take it, what you are thinking about or what will be it's for. So I venture to give feedback without any frame of reference of your intent. I could guess that you are attempting to create something unusual with the purple color, but I am not aware of any feelings induced by purple except royalty, the dictatorship of the Shah replaced by a black dictatorship of the robe or the purple of lavender and lilac which my good friend Ariella loved before she died of melanoma.

So how can I imagine that you had any of these thoughts, so I have to just say you wanted to make it purple! I however am flummoxed as to why.

Next, and this is not a criticism of you, just almost all landscape photographers, there’s some almost religious desire the make the waters like a creamy froth or ejaculate or milk shake or whatever comes to mind. This version is certainly done well, and it is unfair of me to give an ad hominem on this in a post about your picture!

I feel that a scene like this might be done with a careful harvesting of colors, reflection on rocks and in the water and something creative with the water flow other than what everyone else does. Or else have it creamy but then straightforward rich color or else great black and white with dark blacks and tones spread out all the way to bright white. There is no sparkle here.

So what? It's after all a nice picture! Yes it is. However, you have happened to have chosen an area where very great photographers and many that followed have invested great parts of their lives perfecting and searing into our brains. So what one must come up with is either something in that done well, or else some novel approach!

Then we could only need to reference you as the standard because your photograph would bring us to an entirely new world! Now perhaps you have done that in your photograph. Art is, after all a process where you have an idea, make a picture and then work until it reaches your satisfaction. Then you show it! If we have no experience of your language, you can let it just float and hope we'll get it, not care whether not it works for us or else provide a context and title.

Chances are that just the title removes so many wrong interpretations and brings us nearer to your vision. We need some guidance here. Now this is merely my point of view, my reactions. It could be that there is a whole chunk of understanding that I miss for whatever reason, and which most others have full familiarity with. Lot's of times I miss the point, but others get it! What I mean is that I find the picture inexplicable and I don't likke it as it is rendered!

Asher

BTW, I can come out rather hard here because you already know I like your work very much. I know you would not want someone to heap on empty praise when they don't "get it"!

Very articulate expression and creative criticism. I cherish that!

The picture was simply taken (with a blue filter) at a local garden to create a sense of serenity and tranquil. I rarely shoot waterfalls or landscapes so this was a venture to explore something new.

Arun Kumar said:

Very articulate expression and creative criticism. I cherish that!

The picture was simply taken (with a blue filter) at a local garden to create a sense of serenity and tranquil. I rarely shoot waterfalls or landscapes so this was a venture to explore something new.

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Thanks Arun,

The tough thing is to shoot outside with the same control as one can achieve inside. I have with your permission, removed that purple blue layer and try to explore your waterfall. The place is interesting. Those rocks have green moss growing from the constant spray feeding just on the mineral leeching out of the stone.

Yes the highlights of the water are blown, but one can look past that and see what's there. So first one removes the hue by referencing the foam which should be white. Then the water must be treated separately than the rocks. The former has to be soft while the later sharp and show the rock structure.



© 2007 Arun Kumar Edited by Asher Kelman

I see the waterfall as almost private. By allowing us to see the details on the rocks, one feels a connection with this particular place. The next time I'd be concerned about the light range. some solutions are to use RAW so as to ge control of the highlights and then to use a tripod and take pictures in manual, progressively decreasing the ISO or else adding neutral density filters to the front of the lens. holding a large square filter in front of the lens is a good way of doing this!

Then one can use a lens that deals with these bright areas and makes it into a glow.

Later in the day, as the sun starts to drop the extremes of light will be controlled better!

Asher

O.K. Arun,

Here's the next stage where we can walk alongside the masters with some humility knowing we are not matching what they have done. However, there still is a beauty in seeing things as the master saw photographs, in black and white. This waterfall is such a classic subject done before so well. Still, it's always worth exploring our modern images in B&W. If your image does not work in B&W chances are something is hugely wrong. Going to B&W removes local attention catching or camoflaging characteristics of natural things and avoids the odd palettes of ugly modern colors or clashing combinations.

However, going to B&W is like undressing. We now see the body features of the image with no raz-ma-taz! One can no longer hide behond a beatiful color scheme. We now ask what actually is it that we are asked to look at. What's organic there that makes the picture "one thing"? How is the composition constructed? Why is it interesting?

So I have taken the risky step of rendering the image in B&W. I have remapped colors to tones to emphasize the structure of the falls and made a fast repair to the blown-out highlights in water in the left mid-waterfall.



So there's your waterfall!

This waterfall is worth you owning; wherever it is, go back!! If it was anywhere near me, I'd devote many days to this wonderful view. This is almost ready to sell, however, no matter how hard one works, the picture must be taken in a technically competent way for such a picture to be not merely good but great. People might say it's fantastic, but we know better.

Asher

Very well said, Asher.

Arun Kumar said:

Very well said, Asher.

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Few people on the entire planet live so close to a work of nature so packed with beauty. I believe you should consider an investment in effort to return to this place and make sure you have a picture with perfect exposure. You must try to shoot RAW. Use a gray card so you have a reference for normalizing the color.

Today we have amazing color for such an assignmeent. Sure you can do it in B&W, but color will be splendid. I am looking forward to seeing more waterfalls.

Asher

Can't help myself from jumping in here....

As a "purist" and typically going for color-accuracy and every thing else-accuracy regarding my photography, one would think my favorite rendition here would be Asher's "color-correct" version. Oddly, it is my least favorite of the three and has me re-examining my own style.

I guessed at the "tranquility" aspect (re the purple / blue which turned out to be a blue filter) at first look at Arun's post, and oddly for me.....liked it.

Personally, I find Asher's BW version the best of all. That said, framed and in the right environment, there is likely a place for the "blue filter version" as well.

Thanks for making me think,
-Greg

Greg,

I see your point. I think the "blue" version creates a dreamy/fantasy mood which is tranquil. Admittedly it is unrealistic (in color) but does have some merit.

Arun,

I ddon't think it's helpful for you to even consider the burple blue look to be worthwhile. That migh very well sound and feel like and aorrogent statement. It's a strong one for sure. Such changes shoulod be made when one can nail exposure and get perfect colors.

Then one can go off in a creative direction. It's easy to follow temptation and say "I'm going to have fun and be original Now one of us might br the next Picasso or Any Warhall, but I really believe one should be super strict and get the basics integrated in body and mind. This is a huge dilemma of discipline.

The way I look it is we do best when we try to take technically perfect pictures and then do the creative work, where possible in post, be it the wet darkroom or else Photoshop.

To just get a blue cast, that's one second in photoshop with any one of "Channel Mixer", "Selective Color" or "Hue and Saturation". For B&W photography or IR work, selective filters are good ideas as they deal with a logic need for blocking certain wavelengths of light.

So, I'd put away, just for now, the blue version being dreamy!

Just my 2 cents!

Asher

Without touching the sentiment here, I am not defending anything but simply stating that some pictures regardless of how they were taken or "imperfectly processed" will still have some following. Primarily because beauty is very subjective. Greg simply proves that fact. And I am echoing its existence.

Arun Kumar said:

Without touching the sentiment here, I am not defending anything but simply stating that some pictures regardless of how they were taken or "imperfectly processed" will still have some following. Primarily because beauty is very subjective. Greg simply proves that fact. And I am echoing its existence.

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Well, he'll have to be killed too!

I'm one of the most unorthodox persons on the planet, open to almost anything except disrespect for people, animals or the planet. I won't budge an eyelid at your purple frog, or green woman!

I'm just pointing out that it's a tried and true way of success to first get the basics integrated into your work before going for a blue phase. In fact your waterfall is so beautiful unaltered that you can get any mood you want by using full color. I challenge anyone to show this a wrong approach.

If you want to even push yourself more, go for B&W as I tried, albeit not to standards I would hope to reach.

You can easily get praise. I am good at that too. I have seen your flowers and really like what you do. So I cannot give you a pass. The subject is great, beautiful enough per se, you are great but the purple?

Light mastery is far more important than creativity in the learning stages. If I hadn't seen much better work from you, Id just have given your picture as pass.

The internet is full of false praise and also rude dismissivess. Here, I hope we are nurturing and honest!

Asher

My understanding is that coloured filters were designed originally to get special effects, wrt the types of film available, in particular B&W. More gentle ones were to 'warm up' coloured images, and so on.

I am pretty jaded wrt creamy waterfalls, sunsets, flowers and the like. However I applaud Arun for experimenting. There are many things to be learnt by experimenting, even more if shown for others to give input.

Now, if the filter was not used at the point of taking the photo, then can _exactly_ the same effect be achieved in photo shop? The highlights seem blown out, is that the result of using the filter - i.e. does the exposure setting of the camera get fooled, too much light getting towards uv because of the filter? There will be technical aspects.

wrt the artistic side, (if there is a distinction) then more or less monochrome with shades of blue, stirs other connotations, for example blue == cold, red == warm, sepia == old, etc. Pure black and white, for me, probably == journalism.

The coloured image, tends towards sepia, sort of looks old and dirty. The blue, or at least a different shade of blue could look 'bathroomy', I'm not sure about the shade for 'serenity' (traditionally green) as working in this case. The problem with waterfalls, is that they are active. I think they need the same treatment as for the sports photos of Nil, for example - thick and creamy - not.

Best wishes,

Ray

Asher Kelman said:

Well, he'll have to be killed too!

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I'll be watching over my shoulder, then. And your guy will have to stand in line.

But seriously, Doesn't this all depend somewhat upon Erun's skill level (which is a mystery to me at this point)? I initially assumed it was a botched color job....until realizing via subsequent post by Arun that he had used a blue filter, presumably on purpose. Yes, that makes little sense on a digital camera and should be performed in post-processing, I agree....but at that point at least it was clear that the purple-blue cast was intentional.

So do we not go full-circle here, sort of? If Arun is able to produce a properly exposed and color-correct image (such as Asher's color-corrected version*), my 2 cents would be that he is allowed to "play". <smirk>. If, on the other hand, such is not the case, then I'd agree that it is premature to be playing with moody color-casts.

Arun, please continue to post more waterfalls for Ray's benefit in particular.

Is this point of view wishy-washy enough for everyone?

*I liked Asher's color-correct version more than it sounded in my previous post, mostly due to the rock detail and the moss, fwiw

Regards,
Greg

Greg,

You're safe!

I do like the idea of experimentation, of course. It's the order!

First, let's have a properly exposed image. For color, a context and title to orientate us.

Arun,

I do not get a free pass as some "guru". I just want to encourage you to do more work on this special place right near you. As with the tulip you photographed, there's very little that could match that pure beauty by altering the color. Of course one might make a world-class derivative of that.

My feeling is that the path better followed is to photograph the flower and waterfall to bring out their respective real color "essence" as well as one can and then, after all that is mastered, make changes. When you do that, the creativec road is up to you.

If you are more satisfied with the blue version, then that must be the most important only of your art! Whether I get it is really not important; unless I to choose to collect or buy it! I can only give my impression and my own values, but hey that and one token will get you into the New York Subway.

Asher

I enjoyed this conversation immensely. As previously mentioned, I would love to learn and grow from other people's wisdom. Waterfall is simply a completely new area. And I am keen to expand into that.

Asher, I should be safe too.