Phase One Working some Magic with a new Open System! What do we know? What does it me

New System From Mamiya

Mamiya Japan has posted this communique dated Nov 13 where they talk about
--- "A CAMERA SYSTEM INTRODUCED IN Q1 2008"---

I was reading an article on how the big three American car makers got together with Clinton to work on the car of the future with the help of the US gov. The new car was going to use some type of engine with extended mileage and environmentally sound... you know what happened, they got distracted by the high profits of selling lots of the opposite: SUVs.

Apparently at the time of the grand ceremony where the car makers and President sat to sign the accord Japaneses manufacturers REALLY believed that this "good" car was going to be produced so they quietly began to work on their own and now Honda and Toyota have hybrid technology that Americans have to lease to make cars (like SUVs hybrid).

Why is this relevant to this forum? Because it may happen to the MF. Sinar/Leaf/Rollei are the three car makers. They are worried that the end is near if they don't produce something "for the future", so they take something equivalent to a SUV and make it look digital. They design with the common mistake of going from the answer to the question. In other words: they had a line of preexisting lenses so they designed a camera that was designed for a digital back. I should have been the opposite. Begin with the digital sensor, then make the back, then the body and lastly the lens base. Optics should be formulated to serve the sensor. Even the format doesn't match. Un top of this the system has to be able to shoot film. FORGET ABOUT FILM ALREADY. A MF Digital should stay away from film so that it can do one job really well.

So, what is happening? Hasselblad shot de door to PhaseOne, and there is only one camera that is totally opened to them and it happens to be Mamiya which is the only MF camera maker that manufactures their own lenses --- I think -- and has just been purchased by the Google of Japan, a company of software people.

Can you see the picture? They announced not a new Mamiya 645 "BODY", but a new SYSTEM. For the first quarter of next year, so it means that this system is probably more or less in working order by now....

If Mamiya comes out with a stunning new system, one that would be adopted as the standard MF, then PhaseOne could go after the band of kids that didn't want to sit in the same table at lunch brake: Leaf that is married to the Leaf Hy6, they would have to try to catch up making backs that could connect with this new Mamiya System. Hasselblad would have to compete with the entire system and so on.

Unless... the Japaneses are doing what Clinton and the big three car makers did 10 years ago: announce vapor ware sytem/car....

November 13, 2007

Mamiya Digital Imaging Co., Ltd. and Phase One A/S today announced a strategic alliance to develop innovative, open platform-based medium format digital camera systems and solutions for professional photographers.

The alliance builds on both Mamiya and Phase One’s medium format technology expertise and deep understanding of the uncompromising demands of the modern professional photography market. The agreement includes technology-sharing and intellectual property assets as well as sales and marketing co-operation. The first new camera system will be introduced in q1 2008.

“With this alliance, Mamiya and Phase One together are ushering in a new chapter for photographers,” said Tsuyoshi Tsutsumi, CEO of Mamiya Digital Imaging. “As a team, we have access to all the SW and HW competences which are needed to further develop unique digital camera solutions in the coming years, including new feature combinations not in the market today.”
“Phase One and Mamiya together are committed to equipping photographers with what they need to surpass even their most passionate visions and enjoy the process,” said Henrik Håkonsson, CEO of Phase One. “Phase One is committed to open modular systems thus supporting photographers’ full freedom of choice.

Leonardo,

What makes you think that Mamiya will go for a new system starting from the sensor and not try to use existing lenses?

Now since Mamiya does not need to make lenses for a lot of there previosuly popular film cameras, I can see them coming out with new lenses for a new sensor, but it could go either way. With the availibility of new plastics and aspheric machined surfaces and the work already done by Schneider and Rodenstock, I can see Mamiya being able to produce any new set of lenses they decided on.

But if it's open system, who else would have access. are they giving a message to Leaf-Kodak which to my info only has a 2 year agreement to use the Hy6?

Would Schneider, Nikon, Rodenatock and others have access to the lens mount. If that was so, a new era of MF photography would have been inititated.

But they do say" Phase One is committed to Open Modular Systems", but that could mean, please camera MFRS don't exclude us in this rat race. Right now Phase on has no place in the new Hasselblads nor with the Hy6!

Asher

Asher,

It could mean anything, as you say, they talk about systems in plural, so it could just be a new body and Phase back described as a new system ... or a new platform.

They are conservative company, probably a bit less than Nikon, and they have a lens base to protect, but remember that in the film times they had an entire line of MF, range finders, 6x7 6x6, the RB, RZ, a tween lens reflex with interchangeable optics, Mamiya press and the 6x45 Pro MF. So what about a range finder that would accept a Phase One? That could be perfect to shoot from helicopters. A 100 Mega per shot point and shoot. Perfectly doable too...

I hope this system is not just coordinated colors

Hi Leonardo
as usual an interesting and controversial point of view…
This subject have been moreless approached already in another recent thread where I'd like to get, once more, your opinion…

Should we merge yours and my thread ? Asher, what do you think?

After all we're all talking about now and future…

Wel, Nicolas, now we have finally cornered MF with the variables of kind or make of back, body with possible rangefinder capability.

That would be fabulous. A MF digital rangefinder would be a winner!

Asher

I think that the story here is that there was a time when people believed -- with reason -- that Mamiya was going to fold, and now it seams to be back at the point of talking about "new systems", just released the 28mm, a zoom and is marketing a digital back at competitive price.

At the same time the Mk3 is about to come and challenge the MF from the smaller format side ... and ... the big three will finally come to market with plenty of Hy6.

http://www.mamiya.co.jp/news_20070326.html
http://www.mamiya.co.jp/

If you see their japan site there is news regarding ALPA. Unfortunately I can only read hiragana and kata, so don't know why is ALPA in the news page, but that is something that could be emulated. A japanese Alpa with Mamiya mount for the back and electronically cocking and auto aperture lenses made by Mamiya just for 645 digital image circle.

The Phase backs need this communication to know when they have to "wake up". This way they save energy not having a fan (and makes them much more suitable for, say shooting boats or safari hunting than the Leaf that has a fan blowing air --and sand, sea water-- in to the innards of the back).

The swiss are really good at doing perfect --more than perfect-- metal works machines, so it will be a perfect photography instrument when it can shoot at one shot per second while you keep your eyes in the finder, and I think that a team of Mamiya and Phase could do just that...

Photographers could go to location with a AFD body and a "smart A-everything" Alpa body and one Phase back. You can shoot some with one some with the other...

leonardobarreto.com said:

Unfortunately I can only read hiragana and kata, so don't know why is ALPA in the news page

Click to expand...

Internet !

Translation thru http://babelfish.altavista.com

The news of ALPA Capaul & weber corporation ALPA12 sale

2007 March 22nd

With digital imaging the camera of the same company, we start the sale of the accessory from 2007 March 22nd, as the Japanese domestic sales agency "of ALPA Capaul & the weber corporation".

digital imaging, agrees by the fact that it concludes the worldwide brand "ALPA of the mechanical camera Capaul & in the Japanese country of the high-class mechanical camera ALPA12 which the weber corporation" and the same company produce the sales agency contract in regard to sale this time "ALPA 12 TC", "ALPA 12 WA", "ALPA 12 SWA", "ALPA 12 XY" and the interchangeable lens, starts the sale of the accessory which begins the film holder from March 22nd.
(Description)


Combination the system of ideal group it increases ALPA12 which ALPA Capaul & the weber corporation produce together in use the "modular platform" in concept, it consists of the high-class mechanical camera of 4 types which satisfy the request according to photographing circumstance. It makes colorful photographing possible with the abundant lens variation which was adjusted every model by the collimator with compatibility it can install in seamless quickly even in the film back and the digital back. Furthermore, the colorful accessories are offered widely. In addition, also the adapter in order for you to use the digital back "Mamiya for the professional of our company ZD Back" presently is advancing development. Because of this with being unique crosses over 100M pixel with photographing with the combination "Mamiya ZD Back" it becomes possible to photograph minutely.

Click to expand...

thank you for the traslation nicolas, I think that it is basically that they will distribute it in japan...

I found this in the PhaseOne owners forum (don't know who Eric is) :


Interesting that Eric talks about a "Phase One camera". Is this like the "Leaf camera"?? (or the Hasselblad back)

Interesting... but, what can they do w/out modifying the back and the front?

anyway, I have to work today and it will be a rainy --unseasonably hot-- day in my part of the woods. I hope one day my day-rate is as good as that of Nicolas, but probably for that I would have to keep an A+ karma and reincarnate in the first world...

Asher, I think that you may want to open a new thread just about this, it is big and people are posting like mad about it. Look at the interview of Phase One CEO on LL...

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/hitched.shtml

The system is Phase One's, not to replace the AFD, but as a sister, will use Mamiya mount but "european" lens makers will contribute with optics, it will accept old V mount Hasselblad lenses, will be made extremely robust and will have a 3 year warranty for the entire system, back and camera to prove it. There is a generous up grade path for owners of Phase backs specially for photographers that get one now (this is smart because you can buy what there is now and wait for 3 to 4 months to see the new toy and change to the new shinny new train.

There will be leaf shutter lenses to sync at higher speed with flash...

What else do you want??

(ps, It would be interesting to see if "open" means that you can plug a Leaf back in to a Phase One camera)

Done! It's your thread!

Asher