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The ultimate 14mm lens for full frame (24x36mm) DSLRs?

B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Hi Folks,

I came across this comparison between the Nikon AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8 G ED, and the Canon EF 14mm f/2.8 L II USM.

They were tested on the EOS 1Ds Mark III, the most demanding FF camera available:
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/nikon_14_24mm_1/nikon14_24mm_a.html. Click the "NEW: UPDATED WITH CANON 14MM L II COMPARISON ON 1Ds III DECEMBER 17/07" link at the top of that page for the 14mm shootout.

While the images seem a bit oversharpened, the difference is significant, especially at apertures wider than f/8 (where diffraction doesn't level the playing field).

Bart
 
D

David A. Goldfarb

New member
That's a pretty astonishing result.

Still, I'd like to see a comparison for distortion, which is the usual tradeoff for sharpness in a zoom lens. Most zoom lenses (particularly tele-wide zooms) show a little barrel/pincushion distortion at the ends of the range accepted as a compromise to reduce curvature of field, though this zoom has a focal length range of less than 2x, so it's possible that they've managed to keep it within acceptable limits. If Nikon has made a zoom lens with greater sharpness and less distortion than a high-end prime lens, that's really impressive.
 
R

Ray West

New member
Hi Bart,

Thanks for the link. It certainly looks to me as if the second image pair (f5), the Nikon image has been sharpened - look at the black lettering edges, but the Canon does not look sharpened. The third pair, there is colour fringing on the Nikon shot, what is with the drabness?? of the Canon? Beyond f8, the canon images look marginally better, imho. I think these sort of images are not that useful, unless you tend to take them at face value. The folk who publish them tend to try and prove something, even if it is just their own amazement.

It really takes a load of work, to be able to show any real comparisons, to eliminate outside influences, consistent lighting and so on. I wonder if they did the adjustment thing properly, whatever its called, whereby the lens can be matched to the camera, at least wrt af focus. There are too many questions to be asked, and nobody to answer them, afaik.

Best wishes,

Ray
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Yes Bart,
This does look impressive. I'm not yet sure what it means. The 24 mm lens is long in the teeth. (I still have to read his tests of this Nikon zoom against the new 14mm Canon lens).

Also, guys like Nicolas Claris use the Sigma zoom lens with sharpening to make 10-12 foot high images that have earned him his living, reputation and international awards. Of course he used the lens stopped down AFAIK and then has his own sharpening method.

Canon is not asleep. I have no doubt that Canon will be filling in the superwide line up. After all Canon has a 21 MP sensor this year and addresses practical Pro photography! Two years time Canon will have a 30 MP camera no doubt.

For my own work, I use lenses as wide open as practical or close the f 8 to 11. I doubt whether f 5.6 is in the EXIF of many of my pictures.

I've know for some time that Nikon lenses were especially good at the wide end, but so are Olympus lenses. Canon put a lot of energy into the action lenses, generally longer. Now they are correcting this imbalance.

So yes, these results do suggest Nikon has a winner lens, but if this gets the publicity it should, Canon will just move up the priority and release the new lenses earlier.

Thanks Bart for picking this up and bringing this too you.

I wonder who is making this Nikon G to Canon adapter that can give the Camera control over aperture?

Asher
 
nicolas claris

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Yes, impressive…

I should receive the CAnon 14mm soon to do a comparison with the Sigma 12-324.
Of course, first impression will be for OPF… Happy new year!
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Bart,

I'll venture my initial impression of how the Canon 14II stands up to the Nikon zoom. My views are tentative on first quick look. I'd like to know what you think about this.

Canon 14 mm seems to have far better contrast and sharpness from f8 to f 13 in the center with Canons CA in the periphery (which would be easily corrected).

However the Nikon zoom seems to excel from f 2.8 to 5.6!

If I have a job to so, I'd like to think in terms of the aperture required. If these results are valid and my tentative impression holds up, then I might choose the Nikon for wide apertures but for detailed work, requiring depth of field, I'd go for Canon. It's the center 60% that's generally important and for many photographers f8-f13 is perhaps the more used aperture range and is already in the diffraction area of the 21 MP Cn 1DsIII and sharpening will be needed anyway.

Asher
 
B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Asher Kelman said:
Bart,

I'll venture my initial impression of how the Canon 14II stands up to the Nikon zoom. My views are tentative on first quick look. I'd like to know what you think about this.

Canon 14 mm seems to have far better contrast and sharpness from f8 to f 13 in the center with Canons CA in the periphery (which would be easily corrected).

However the Nikon zoom seems to excel from f 2.8 to 5.6!
Click to expand...

Hi Asher,

Remember, these shots were supposedly taken on a 1Ds Mark III body, so diffraction is starting to take its toll beyond f/7.1 or f/8. These images underline that, as far as the postprocessing allows to still see it. But then f/8 and a 14mm on a 24x36mm sensor array gives enormous DOF anyway (with a hyperfocal distance of 2.23m, it ranges from 1.12m to infinity).

What amazes me most, is the wide aperture corner detail. Of course this is with an experimental Nikon G lens to EOS mount converter, but the nice thing is that it seems to not obstruct the mirror and apparently relays Aperture info (don't know about wide-open light metering).

Bart
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Bart_van_der_Wolf said:
Hi Asher,

Remember, these shots were supposedly taken on a 1Ds Mark III body, so diffraction is starting to take its toll beyond f/7.1 or f/8. These images underline that, as far as the postprocessing allows to still see it. But then f/8 and a 14mm on a 24x36mm sensor array gives enormous DOF anyway (with a hyperfocal distance of 2.23m, it ranges from 1.12m to infinity).

What amazes me most, is the wide aperture corner detail. Of course this is with an experimental Nikon G lens to EOS mount converter, but the nice thing is that it seems to not obstruct the mirror and apparently relays Aperture info (don't know about wide-open light metering).

Bart
Click to expand...

Bart,

I only wonder whether or not this aperture information actually gets to the EXIF or else is it merely that the Canon is measuring the light in Manual focus or else in Av? After all, this is what happens when I use the Zeiss lenses on my canon DSLR's.

What's really needed is the chip that allows the focus conform green light to go on!

Asher
 
B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Michael Fontana said:
Someone using these two pounds of glass?
I'd be interested in adapting it to EOS, too....
Click to expand...

After a long delay caused by the focus confirm chip deliveries from China, apparently they are shipping the first batches of the rotating adapter. I'm waiting for the lever operated version to be announced. Rotating the lens (to actuate the aperture) with a petal shaped hood/shade doesn't seem useful to me.

Bart
 
M

Michael Fontana

pro member
Thanks, Bart

I had read it as well; and wondered about the mechanism

Did you already get the lens?
Any chances to get a RAW in 17 or 21 mm?

I did find the lens in Marks tests remarkable, so if I can shot assignement xy, I'll go for it....
 
nicolas claris

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Hi guys

funny that this threads comes back to life, I have recall last Friday my local dealer my aim for testing the Canon 14mm…
As Canon France told them that they fon't have any 14 mm (I mean the new one of course) for trial purpose, my dealer took the risk to order one and let me test it…

Of course they know that 2 times on 3 I buy what I test…
I hope this lens will challenge the Sigma 12-24 on the 1DsIII…
(as for now, the MF Sinar Hy6 cannot have such wide lens… shhhhhhh - LoL)
 
M

Michael Fontana

pro member
Nicolas

i don't tend to use the UW much, usually it stops about 21 mm, the 28 beeing the preferred, but
sometimes bloody UW are so usefull....

Bart: do you have other informations than the lever one will be announced in 08?
 
nicolas claris

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Michael Fontana said:
Nicolas

i don't tend to use the UW much, usually it stops about 21 mm, the 28 beeing the preferred, but
sometimes bloody UW are so usefull....
Click to expand...

Wel I use the 12-24 at … 12!

_45R7294_LR2.jpg


otherwise I jump to the fantastic Canon 24-70…

_45R7226_LR2.jpg
 
nicolas claris

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Bonsoir Michel

an "old" friend of mine which find the times more difficult now with the 1Ds3…

A nice piece of glass anyway, but has to be carefully tried before buying as they are many "lemons" on the market…
It tends to have some soft corners (mine not so…), to be used at ƒ8 minimum if you want to avoid vignetting…

My main problem with it is that it is very very difficult to avoid helicopter prop blades!!! and skids…

When I bought it, it was much sharper than the Canon 17-40 mm (gone sold soon after ;-)

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3236&navigator=1
 
M

Michael Fontana

pro member
A example of the 28.
At 12 mm, les lignes fuyantes, forgotten the english word, would give a totally other look to that space.


E+S_MG_08_A_2.jpg




But maybe, its' a cultural question, too, as I saw much more the use of UWs by american architecture photographers, than by european...
 
nicolas claris

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
But maybe, its' a cultural question, too, as I saw much more the use of UWs by american architecture photographers, than by european...
Click to expand...

LoL! not only Americans… but you have to be prepared for some "distortion" (that I looked for in this case:

_45R2019_LR.jpg


_45R2138_LR.jpg


_45R2069_LR.jpg


_45R2059_LR.jpg


I am not sure that Mr. Franck Gehry would love these shots… does he has enough humor? I don't know…
 
B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Michael Fontana said:
Bart: do you have other informations than the lever one will be announced in 08?
Click to expand...

Nope, I know nothing more than what's stated on the adapter page that I linked to. I see the first (rotating) adapter model as a good learning experience for the makers of the adapter, although the lever operated one is probably a bit more complex (more moving parts) and may have its own quirks.

In the few images I've seen on the web, the Nikon zoom has better quality in the corners of a full frame sensor array than the new Canon 14mm, but we'll have to wait for more folks to post their results, preferably in a direct shoot-out. For that kind of money I only accept the best one can buy, even if it means stopped down metering (which is not a real issue, and probably a non-issue with LifeView, in most cases).

Bart
 
nicolas claris

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Well, in fact the Gehry building was a play for me, I tend to think that Gehry would prefer the work I did with the Sinar and the MF 80 mm… (see my HY6 diary).

Thanks for the link to Zaha Hadid, bad ergonomy website but most interesting architectural work!
 
M

Michael Fontana

pro member
Back to topics.....

As I'm not to sure about the handling of the adaptor - where do you hold the lens, when turning it to get the f-stop closed - I ring up a local dealer for a shootout of 16 - 35 II vs the 14 - 24, at the store. Seems to be possible....

I tend to favor the 14-24 for its better corner resolution (what we've been so far...) and it fits precisly in my desired focus lenghts... on the other side, I' ve a question about the handling of the adaptor in everyday's use....

This seems to me to be the best approach, even the lens costs 30% more then buying at H+B, etc....

No timeline for the lever-adaptor...

Barth, what do you think?
 
B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Michael Fontana said:
As I'm not to sure about the handling of the adaptor - where do you hold the lens, when turning it to get the f-stop closed - I ring up a local dealer for a shootout of 16 - 35 II vs the 14 - 24, at the store. Seems to be possible....
Click to expand...

I have not yet handled the lens myself, so I don't know exactly how/where to grab the lens for rotation. I figured it would be an academic question until the adapter became available, which it only recently did. I have read no useful feedback yet from those lucky few that took delivery of Mark's adapter.

Bart
 
M

Michael Fontana

pro member
Good questions, Bart ;-)

but after climbing this morning in some cobwebbed attics, and realising the required angles....

I've been even building a rail, for supporting the cam 40 cm out of the small dormer windows of the oldtown.
As for the the adaptor, hmmmmm - any suggestions?
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Michael,

I hate you to be hanging out the window waiting for an adapter. I presume it's for the Nikon lens to mount to the Eos while you are waiting for the focus confirming adapter from Mark?

Asher
 
B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Michael Fontana said:
Good questions, Bart ;-)

but after climbing this morning in some cobwebbed attics, and realising the required angles....
Click to expand...

Yes, there are situations where single exposures (instead of stitched) are easier, and then the lens FOV needs to be adequate to cover a wide angle.

I've been even building a rail, for supporting the cam 40 cm out of the small dormer windows of the oldtown.
Click to expand...

Don't forget to hang on to the camera strap! Better safe than sorry.

I've completely converted to the RRS system. I therefore tend to think in terms of RRS solutions, which can become expensive ;-) They have several camera rails and bars that could be used for such setups, but one could of course also use a monopod (although not as sturdy as the RRS bars) and stick it out of the window.

As for the the adaptor, hmmmmm - any suggestions?
Click to expand...

The offering of Nikon G to Canon EF lens adapters seems to be limited to a choice from 1 adapter ... :-(

Bart
 
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