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View Full Version : 1Ds Mark III Availability


Ken Tanaka
January 4th, 2008, 06:13 PM
I guess I'm just a putz. I've had a standing order (not just a notice) for this camera at Adorama since October. Nada. But I see others have had their cameras for weeks. What's the trick?

Will Thompson
January 4th, 2008, 09:43 PM
Hi Ken, The trick for me was to order it when the 1DmkIII was announced 3 months before it was announced and have my dealer fax in the order to canon as soon as the Canon USA part/ordering number was determined not after the dealer web site would accept it.

I think my order was #1 at Canon USA.

The other trick is to not order from a dealer that has more than one to order. My local small dealer only ordered 2 or 3 but only got 1 in so-far luckily I was 1st in line.

I know that B&H is better at getting one to you since they charge you when ordered so when your number comes up it just ships.

The other trick is to call henry before it is even on there web site and put in a pre paid order since henry can take it even before the price is set via a credit card.

At the moment if you do not have a prepaid order your best option is to call B&H, prepay and just wait it out since B&H will get more per shipment than any one else you will get it from them before any store has one in available stock.

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 5th, 2008, 04:37 AM
What's the trick?

No trick, really. I had my name entered on a notification list (not even an order list) at one of my dealers, and occasionally called with another (to test their willingness to negotiate, and get a feeling on the backorder situation). Cameras trickled in by one or two per week at a time, and solid backorders were served at a first come first served basis.

Then the one dealer called that they had one available for me, and they'd hold it for a week to be collected. I called the other dealer to check on their backorder status, and to see if I could play them against each other, but they had no outlook on when the end of their backorder line was in sight.

So the next day, I went to get the unit waiting for me, and while they had one unit reserved, it was not on my name! Luckily they had one spare unit (for disaster situations). I estimate that my unit was amongst the first 50 to be sold in the Netherlands.

Maybe, but this is just speculation on my part, there is some geographical prioritizing going on, based on the selling price from Canon to the dealers. It would make sense if you look at the currency exchange rate difference between Euro and Dollar (45% or more per European unit). The earnings in Euros would also be less risky in terms of devaluation.

If I were you, I'd keep in touch with several dealers, and also include some smaller ones (with shorter backorder queues). Prices will probably be pretty much the same where ever you look.

Good luck,
Bart

Paul Caldwell
January 5th, 2008, 08:02 AM
It is rather interesting to note, I have not seen any new posts of people who have gotten one in over almost 3 weeks. It's pretty common to see the "I've gotten mine" type posts when new cameras ship.

After the first round, when the camera was released I don't think many have shipped.
I noticed that Canon released a new firmware version. But I also wonder if all of posts on softness were picked up by Canon and they are modifying the Low Pass Filter. It woundn't surprise me.

I also learned recently from a post on www.getdpi.com that the Low pass filters on Canon's cameras are actually a series of different materials. In the past, everyone always stated that the AA filter was made from LI, Lithium Niobate which had a middle range hardness factor. Thus if were going to have to clean the filter, odds were you wouldn't scatch LI. It's apparent that from some of the people who have had the low pass removed on 5D's (MaxMax), that the actual filter is many different layers and the one on the extreme outside is a IR hot mirror layer, not the actual LI layer.

I realize that's a tad off topic. But it's rather interesting to wonder why shipments seem to have stopped.

Paul Caldwell

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 5th, 2008, 09:30 AM
It is rather interesting to note, I have not seen any new posts of people who have gotten one in over almost 3 weeks. It's pretty common to see the "I've gotten mine" type posts when new cameras ship.

Not everybody feels the need to shout it from the roofs. What's more, it's not that special anymore after the first few exceptionally lucky ones.

After the first round, when the camera was released I don't think many have shipped.
I noticed that Canon released a new firmware version. But I also wonder if all of posts on softness were picked up by Canon and they are modifying the Low Pass Filter. It woundn't surprise me.

After the initial backorders are delivered, things tend to slow down to a normal pace (although that doesn't explain why Ken still has to wait). I have not seen that many posts on softness, but it seems normal to me when you push your lenses to extremes and people are starting to notice how shallow the actual plane of focus is. It also becomes more important to get the focus calibration spot on (hence the AF microadjustment). I don't believe Canon are modifying the LP-filter, they've had the camera ready for quite some time and the Japannese are not that easy when it comes to abandoning long term strategies.

I can tell you, the files sharpen (and I mean real sharpening) beautifully but they do indeed require a bit more attention. A tool like Focus Magic (http://www.focusmagic.com/index.htm) does a good job in compensating for the AA-filter and large microlens effects, and it even tackles slight defocus issues.

I realize that's a tad off topic. But it's rather interesting to wonder why shipments seem to have stopped.

Yes, if they in fact have been stopped, of which I'm not convinced.

Bart

Will Thompson
January 5th, 2008, 12:23 PM
My dealer has received 2 out of 3 ordered. 1 with the first shipments that I got and 1 mid December. I would expect the 3rd one mid January.

Ken Tanaka
January 5th, 2008, 08:33 PM
Thanks very much for your notes. My order at Adorama has, indeed, been a real order (although they do not actually charge until shipment).

Of course it would be more than a bit silly to be deeply upset by the delay. I had actually not been thinking about it at all until I was just finishing up a book project last Friday. Most of the images are from my 1Ds II (which still can produce a superb picture). But I has naively thought I might actually be able to pop a few 1Ds III images in the book (not that it would make any difference).

Hey, it's not like I'm waiting for a kidney or heart! (It just sometimes can feel that way.)

BTW, I spoke with someone at Adorama just before Christmas who estimated that I wouldn't have a camera until the very end of January at the earliest. That was based not just my position in the queue but also on their expectation of dribble-rate shipments.

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 5th, 2008, 09:08 PM
Hey, it's not like I'm waiting for a kidney or heart! (It just sometimes can feel that way.)

Guess so, indeed there are higher priorities.

BTW, I spoke with someone at Adorama just before Christmas who estimated that I wouldn't have a camera until the very end of January at the earliest. That was based not just my position in the queue but also on their expectation of dribble-rate shipments.

Yes, dribble-rate shipments seems to be an adequate description. All the better the satisfaction when you actually get one (BTW, mine already came, surprisingly, with the latest V1.06 firmware version). Yet, expect some, not too much but still, adaptation time...

Bart

Ralph Eisenberg
January 6th, 2008, 08:14 AM
I just got back to Paris and am very surprised to learn that there is a dearth of 1Ds3 bodies. My dealer had contacted me prior to my departure and had just taken delivery of 20. I decided to pass until February (awaiting the usual announcements) when I shall make my decision. Like Ken, I'm still happily clicking away with my (heavy) 1Ds2

I'm struck by the lack of enthusiasm that has greeted the arrival of the 1Ds3, or at least this is my impression.

Bart, could you tell us something about the adaptive learning curve that you spoke of?

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 6th, 2008, 09:03 AM
Bart, could you tell us something about the adaptive learning curve that you spoke of?

Sure Ralph, althought the curve is not steep. From the perspective of a 1Ds2 user, you'll have to work your way through the manual to find some specific CF settings and see if/how they differ from what you're used to. Of course you'll need a bit of getting used to the new controls layout, but within a couple of days it already feels like second nature (helps when you need to work in the dark at night).

Most options can be easily found by browsing through the camera's menu on the LCD, but it might help to check the manual for subtle differences in interaction with other CF options. Depending on ones specific style of shooting and CF preferences the differences with the 1Ds2 can be small or nil, but then the devil is always in the detail ...

The new focusing system reacts a bit different than you may be used to, especially when using all focus sensors. It tends to prioritize on slightly different features than the 1Ds2, but of course there is feedback in the viewfinder and one will get used to it pretty soon. There are also other CF settings to tweak AF performance for specific situations (the manual is helpful). The new method of Focus point selection does take a little getting used to!!

The new features like Life View (the LCD is still readable in sunshine!), AF microadjustment, and a mirror that can stay up during bracketing exposures, are all great additions. There are many small improvements that show that the camera had a major redesign (including silly little things like asymmetric hinges to the rubber terminal covers, which does make a difference).

All in all, a major improvement in ease of working, and therefore better image quality.

Bart

Ralph Eisenberg
January 6th, 2008, 09:30 AM
Thanks Bart. Could you say something about your experience in post-processing, the general feel of the images and your handling of them? Have you encountered anything that particularly stands out and that necessitates getting used to?

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 6th, 2008, 12:35 PM
Thanks Bart. Could you say something about your experience in post-processing, the general feel of the images and your handling of them? Have you encountered anything that particularly stands out and that necessitates getting used to?

They're big and beautiful, and it pays to have good lenses, that's for sure.

I'm doing some detailed sensor analyses right now, to find out more about the 'fabric' that the images are made of. That will allow me to exploit the strengths and/or mask the weaknesses, so I'll have more to say when that's done.

There will also be a quest for the best (couple of) Raw converter(s), which may take some time because I get a feeling there is some room for improvement (or better tweaking by the user) in the initial converter releases that can handle the 1Ds3 files. When I look at the rather different results that a number of converters produce, it may need a bit of work on my part to first optimize the output from each, before I can really compare the results.

However, for the time being, Capture One's version 4.0 produces the most detailed results at the expense of generating a bit more noise than e.g. DPP which is also very sharp. Both produce nice colors, but the workflow is a day or night difference. Both also have some different negative aspects that would make me switch if something better (for my style of working) comes along.

I still need to do some ACR color calibration and tweaking before I can really judge the color differences between them. Then there is Silkypix and Bibble that need to be evaluated, I think I'll skip DxO due to their invasive protection measures, unless their latest version gets rave reviews.

And then there is the new Raw converter that Michael Tapes and Magne Nilson are developing.

Nevertheless, my initial impression is that the images look stunning and can survive significant work on them. Depending on the optical chain, i.e. the interaction between the lens, AA-filter, and the microlenses+sensor elements, noise control and sharpening seem to be handled very well by my Neat Image and Focus Magic (plug-in) tools which do fit well in the Photoshop part of postprocessing.

My only 'concern' for the moment is Dynamic range, which is why I need to do some more homework before I can really give my verdict. I can solve it for my current type of imaging, if it turns out to be an issue, but perhaps it just needs a bit more work on the tonecurve. It's part of the learning to master one's tools period.

Bart

Will Thompson
January 6th, 2008, 01:06 PM
(although they do not actually charge until shipment)

Ken, this is the primary reason not to order from Adorama! the list is too long. At B&H you must have the funds available when you order. This greatly shortens the list. I would not be surprised if you placed an order with B&H today and got it sooner than the one you already have on order from Adorama. This is one of the reasons why I ordered from my local dealer and not B&H. My local dealer did not think he was going to order any.

Ralph Eisenberg
January 7th, 2008, 03:17 AM
Many thanks once again Bart for sharing your considered views on and initial experience with the 1Ds3. Most helpful.

Nicolas Claris
January 7th, 2008, 04:51 AM
I can tell you, the files sharpen (and I mean real sharpening) beautifully but they do indeed require a bit more attention. A tool like Focus Magic (http://www.focusmagic.com/index.htm) does a good job in compensating for the AA-filter and large microlens effects, and it even tackles slight defocus issues.

Bonjour Bart
fully agree (once more!) wanted to give a try to Focus Magic but couldn't been able to "see" it in CS3… any trick?

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 7th, 2008, 05:05 AM
Bonjour Bart
fully agree (once more!) wanted to give a try to Focus Magic but couldn't been able to "see" it in CS3… any trick?

Bonjour Nicolas,

I'm on Windows XP Pro, and it shows up in CS3 as a choice under the Filter menu (in the bottom section). I suppose it should work the same on a MAC.

Bart

Nicolas Claris
January 7th, 2008, 05:21 AM
Bonjour Nicolas,

I'm on Windows XP Pro, and it shows up in CS3 as a choice under the Filter menu (in the bottom section). I suppose it should work the same on a MAC.

Bart

Thanks Bart, but I found the answer in their website:
The Mac version of Focus Magic works on PowerPC versions of the Apple Mac from OS X onwards and works with the Intel versions of the Mac when used with Rosetta. We hope to have the Universal Binary version done later this year, but the developers are currently working on another project which is the reason for the delay.

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 7th, 2008, 06:20 AM
Thanks Bart, but I found the answer in their website:

Ah, that's a real pitty because it such an effective tool. Anyway, C1-4 is pretty good in getting the detail out of the Raw data, so a little noise control and Smart sharpening will have to do for now.

Bart

Nicolas Claris
January 7th, 2008, 06:42 AM
Ah, that's a real pitty because it such an effective tool. Anyway, C1-4 is pretty good in getting the detail out of the Raw data, so a little noise control and Smart sharpening will have to do for now.

Bart

Yes plus my sharpening action…

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 7th, 2008, 06:50 AM
Yes plus my sharpening action…

Mais naturellement, sans doute! But then, Smart sharpening is part of your tonemapping and sharpening action, in the final steps.

Bart

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 9th, 2008, 04:39 PM
My only 'concern' for the moment is Dynamic range, which is why I need to do some more homework before I can really give my verdict. I can solve it for my current type of imaging, if it turns out to be an issue, but perhaps it just needs a bit more work on the tonecurve.

I just came across a draft review (http://www.wlcastleman.com/equip/reviews/1dsmkIII/index.htm) and comparison between the Mark II and III by William Castleman. He mentions dynamic range (shadow detail) as being less than from the Mark II. He has Raw files available for download.

I suspect that the standard 1Ds3 profile in C1-4 needs more work, as apparently does the sharpening, but I'll investigate further and compare with other converters and Raw file differences.

Bart

Ken Tanaka
January 18th, 2008, 04:41 PM
Back to topic...

I'm beginning to suspect that Canon has paused shipments of this camera. There's nary a peep out there from new owners and little evidence of recent (i.e. since 1/1) availability.

Will Thompson
January 18th, 2008, 06:14 PM
Sorry to say Ken you are mistaken. Canon finally met prepaid demand at B&H yesterday if you had preordered it would be on its way to you now.

Ken Tanaka
January 18th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Hmm. Interesting. I still have that standing order at Adorama since October -- the equivalent of prepaid -- and it's still standing.

Bart_van_der_Wolf
January 18th, 2008, 08:06 PM
Hmm. Interesting. I still have that standing order at Adorama since October -- the equivalent of prepaid -- and it's still standing.

I've also seen several people, on DPR and Luminous Landscape fora, recently mention that their unit has arrived. Maybe European backorders have been more or less filled?

Bart

Will Thompson
January 19th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Hmm. Interesting. I still have that standing order at Adorama since October -- the equivalent of prepaid -- and it's still standing.

And since NOT pre paid the list is many times longer. Just ask them how long?

Peter Galbavy
February 1st, 2008, 10:55 AM
Bought mine in London yesterday (hooray!) and when a colleague went back to the shop on a Nikon lens matter (!) the guy we both dealt with was selling another. Retail availability in London, good. Sales good.

In 24 hours, I am loving this model over my 2 1/2 year old 1DII. Lots of changes and control differences. But I found the updated config guide on the Canon DLC site (thanks Chuck!) and I will be reading it on the train home tonight...

Oh, I do mean the 1DsIII in case someone thinks I am confused and missed the subject of the thread :)

Bart_van_der_Wolf
February 1st, 2008, 11:21 AM
In 24 hours, I am loving this model over my 2 1/2 year old 1DII. Lots of changes and control differences. But I found the updated config guide on the Canon DLC site (thanks Chuck!) and I will be reading it on the train home tonight...

Peter, congratulations. I'm sure you're going to love the full frame capability, even though the focus sensors don't cover the image as on a 1.3 cropped sensor.

Bart

Ken Tanaka
February 1st, 2008, 11:20 PM
Update:
Well my lengthy wait may have actually been beneficial. It gave me much time to closely consider my true needs. I decided that my 1Ds II remains a superb camera and one which I have mastered in the 2 years I've used it. Its file size is more than adequate for all publication and display work I typically undertake and I've not seen compelling evidence that the III would really represent an enormous leap forward in image quality. Perhaps most importantly, I've really become fond of, and extremely comfortable and facile with, my 1Ds II. Although I do not use it daily I use it frequently enough to feel that it's become an intuitive extension of my eye. So I canceled my standing order for a 1Ds III. Perhaps I'll revisit the camera later this year, but I feel no urgency.

Still, I did have a need for a slightly higher resolution studio-style camera. So I decided to take a plunge with a Mamiya Rz67 medium format (6x7) camera and a ZD back. Yes, assembling this was more expensive but I believe it may better meet the type of applications for which I would have preferred the 1Ds III file size.

Thanks to everyone who has offered their notes here. Enjoy your new 1Ds III.

Paul Caldwell
February 2nd, 2008, 08:02 AM
Ken,

I hope you will post your findings with the ZD, especially since you have a 1ds II. I have considered this option also, P645 but with a P25+ or reconditioned P25. The ZD on some forums seems to get good reviews and on others more of a negative press.

Paul Caldwell

Ken Tanaka
February 2nd, 2008, 09:07 AM
Indeed I will, Paul.

Ralph Eisenberg
February 2nd, 2008, 01:57 PM
Yes, it would be most interesting to learn of your impressions.