Jane Auburn
New member
Regarding AI Servo tracking on the 1D Mark II, can anyone corroborate or refute this information?
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1D Mark II tracking issues
- Thread starter Jane Auburn
- Start date
Tony Field
New member
I have had a few rare situations where the Canon 1D-IIn would yield a number of consecutive frames at 8fps that were out of focus. This would be using AI Servo. When using the motor drive, on rare occasions, if the first frame was very seriously out of focus, subsequent frames would also be seriously out of focus. If the first frame was slightly out of focus, the AI Servo would usually lock into focus on the second or third frame.
The last time this happened, I was shooting a show jumping event - over 6,000 shots over 8 days. The mis-focus happened twice. In both cases, the weather was somewhat overcast with flat light.
I also have had the identical action with Nikon D2h and D2x - again very rare.
The last time this happened, I was shooting a show jumping event - over 6,000 shots over 8 days. The mis-focus happened twice. In both cases, the weather was somewhat overcast with flat light.
I also have had the identical action with Nikon D2h and D2x - again very rare.
Nill Toulme
New member
I've put over 100,000 frames through my two Mark II's shooting sports. Have I seen something like that happen? Yes, I think so, but if so not so such a level as to rise to a conscious irritation. It's certainly not a "problem."
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
Andreas Kanon
New member
I haven't seen any problems on my MarkIIN.
Usually what happens when i end up getting oof pictures when using AI servo is when the background is cluttered and the AF starts to hunt a bit to figure out what to lock onto.
Usually what happens when i end up getting oof pictures when using AI servo is when the background is cluttered and the AF starts to hunt a bit to figure out what to lock onto.
Michael Mouravi
New member
When I got my 1D mark IIn I immediately saw a decrease in AI Servo tracking ability from my old 1D. I also noticed a strange behavior that was quite different from my 1D - when trying to focus (in One Shot mode) on a low-contrast subject, like a window covered with closed blinds, the 1D would refuse to focus, but the 1D Mark IIn would lock focus about 1 foot in front of it.
I've written it off to a slightly different AF system (dedicated processor) and continued using the camera until I noticed that I'm getting A LOT of OOF shots, especially with longer lenses from the distance (70-200 2.8 IS, 300 2.8 IS). So I ran a few focus tests with a focusing chart - focus varied wildly from one lens to another. With 85L the camera front-focused about an inch from 5 feet away. With 70-200 it back-focused about 1/2" from 10 feet away. Both of those lenses were dead on with my old 1D.
Anyway, I dropped the camera and both lenses along with the CD of chart images at Jamesburg center - let's see what they say...
I've written it off to a slightly different AF system (dedicated processor) and continued using the camera until I noticed that I'm getting A LOT of OOF shots, especially with longer lenses from the distance (70-200 2.8 IS, 300 2.8 IS). So I ran a few focus tests with a focusing chart - focus varied wildly from one lens to another. With 85L the camera front-focused about an inch from 5 feet away. With 70-200 it back-focused about 1/2" from 10 feet away. Both of those lenses were dead on with my old 1D.
Anyway, I dropped the camera and both lenses along with the CD of chart images at Jamesburg center - let's see what they say...
Jane Auburn
New member
Michael Mouravi said:
I'll be very interested in hearing the results.
Michael Mouravi
New member
Well, my story has a happy ending. I picked up the camera and lenses today (dropped them off at Jamesburg center on Monday). Camera now focuses perfectly both in One Shot and AI Servo. Tracks very well.
One thing immediately obvious is that when focusing on a stationary object in AI Servo, there's no back-and-forth movement at all. This was not the case before the adjustment.
According to the repair order nothing was replaced, just adjustments were made.
My lenses were also checked, adjusted and cleaned (free of charge, although 2 of them are long past warranty period). This is the first time in 12 years since switching to Canon that I had to bring anything in for service and I must say I'm very impressed.
One thing immediately obvious is that when focusing on a stationary object in AI Servo, there's no back-and-forth movement at all. This was not the case before the adjustment.
According to the repair order nothing was replaced, just adjustments were made.
My lenses were also checked, adjusted and cleaned (free of charge, although 2 of them are long past warranty period). This is the first time in 12 years since switching to Canon that I had to bring anything in for service and I must say I'm very impressed.
Jane Auburn
New member
Good to hear the happy ending. I'm dismayed to find, however, that it's often necessary to send in brand new equipment to the manufacturer to get it to work as it is supposed to out of the box.
Michael Mouravi said:
Alan T. Price
New member
it works for me - If I'm careful
The 1D2 does a great job if I keep the active AF area smaller than the subject (by limiting or preventing AF expansion) and if I keep the AF sensor on the subject (with practice).
I have found plenty of OOF shots but they can be attributed to my mistakes such as those mentioned above and not having enough DOF and not choosing a distinct AF target.
With regard to lens AF jittering in AI Servo mode, that is normal. I've had it in my 300D, 20D and 1D2. I can't recall what the 1V did.
The 1D2 does a great job if I keep the active AF area smaller than the subject (by limiting or preventing AF expansion) and if I keep the AF sensor on the subject (with practice).
I have found plenty of OOF shots but they can be attributed to my mistakes such as those mentioned above and not having enough DOF and not choosing a distinct AF target.
With regard to lens AF jittering in AI Servo mode, that is normal. I've had it in my 300D, 20D and 1D2. I can't recall what the 1V did.
Jane Auburn
New member
The reports I have seen from those who complain is that it doesn't matter whether the AF area is smaller than the subject. The depth of field comes into play, as does the speed of the moving subject.
Alan T. Price said:
Alan T. Price
New member
if you allow AF auto expansion then the camera is free to latch onto something other than the intended target if that something has greater contrast or clarity for the AF sensors to work with.
I've reviewed mis-focused shots in breezebrowser with the AF sensors superimposed on the image, and it is quite clear that false AF tracking is invariably my own fault. That's good because it means my camera is ok, but also bad because it means I have not mastered the necessary tracking skills.
I've reviewed mis-focused shots in breezebrowser with the AF sensors superimposed on the image, and it is quite clear that false AF tracking is invariably my own fault. That's good because it means my camera is ok, but also bad because it means I have not mastered the necessary tracking skills.
Michael Mouravi
New member
Alan T. Price said:
Indeed, very small range of movement is normal. However, if you start noticing enough movement that actually throws the subject out of focus a bit - that's a cause for concern.
Will_Perlis
New member
I've tried the 1dMk2's predictive AF on cars and bikes in traffic at around 30mph and it worked fine. If you need to follow *really* fast objects then you need to upgrade to one of these
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_Phalanx_CIWS_Firing_lg.jpg
and do some mods to make it less noisy.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_Phalanx_CIWS_Firing_lg.jpg
and do some mods to make it less noisy.
Jane Auburn
New member
Well, this is all very strange. I've read numerous reports of the original 1D Mark II having tracking issues -- and of the focus stuttering on stationary subjects when in AI Servo - but no one here seems to have had any issues.
David Bostock
New member
I recently shot a wedding reception with my 1DsII on AI Servo. Auto AF Expansion was set to off...and I was manually selecting the focus point. On many of the images, shots where the focus point was on a face were out of focus...these were shot at f/8, and 1/250, with a 24-70 2.8 lens. Subsequent tests revealed what I beleve is the back and forth movement described here.
I sent the camera in for a once over...I still see a sharper image in one shot versus AI when focusing on a stationary object...but it is better...for what it's worth...I'm sticking with One Shot unless I absolutely need predictive or movement focusing...
Cheers,
I sent the camera in for a once over...I still see a sharper image in one shot versus AI when focusing on a stationary object...but it is better...for what it's worth...I'm sticking with One Shot unless I absolutely need predictive or movement focusing...
Cheers,
Will_Perlis
New member
"I've read numerous reports of the original 1D Mark II having tracking issues ..."
This is the internet. For every real issue, one hundred people will report problems because they didn't read the manual, another ninety-seven will agree because they didn't understand the manual, and fifty-seven will concur because they know the gadget is a tool of the CIA and transmitting radio waves to their brain.
Now, note that I am NOT saying real problems can't and don't exist. They MUST exist simply due to the nature of mass production manufacturing and because humans are human no matter how hard they might try to be perfect cogs in the machine. That said, I suggest taking complaints (as well as claims of perfection) with enough grains of salt to perhaps raise your blood pressure.
(As for Servo AF being a little less precise than One-shot, I'd expect that. However, the only fair test would be on a tripod, I've seen people swaying like palm trees in a hurricane while shooting and the servo system would never get a chance to stabilize.)
This is the internet. For every real issue, one hundred people will report problems because they didn't read the manual, another ninety-seven will agree because they didn't understand the manual, and fifty-seven will concur because they know the gadget is a tool of the CIA and transmitting radio waves to their brain.
Now, note that I am NOT saying real problems can't and don't exist. They MUST exist simply due to the nature of mass production manufacturing and because humans are human no matter how hard they might try to be perfect cogs in the machine. That said, I suggest taking complaints (as well as claims of perfection) with enough grains of salt to perhaps raise your blood pressure.
(As for Servo AF being a little less precise than One-shot, I'd expect that. However, the only fair test would be on a tripod, I've seen people swaying like palm trees in a hurricane while shooting and the servo system would never get a chance to stabilize.)
Jane Auburn
New member
Will_Perlis said:
I'm glad you're not saying that real problems don't exist. We all know how common it is for people to assume that because they've never experienced a problem, there is no problem. Just look at the health insurance crisis in the U.S.: everyone looked the other way, saying "it must be the other guy," and now 50 million people don't have insurance.
Back to the issue at hand. A quick search through the threads of Sportsshooter.com turns up enough posts about this issue to convince me that it's real:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=21152
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=21237
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=19843
Jane Auburn
New member
David Bostock said:
This is a sad statement about a $3700 sports camera that is designed to be at its best in AI Servo mode for tracking fast-moving subjects.
Will_Perlis
New member
IMO, the only important piece of knowledge would be the probabilty of getting a defective camera and what can be done if one does. We know Canon can fix them, so that part isn't important except in terms of annoyance.
What we do not know and probably can't know is how many total cameras are out there being used by people under much the same conditions and with the same skill and discrimination abilities. If it's a very small number those reports are meaningful, if it's a large number they're not.
What we do not know and probably can't know is how many total cameras are out there being used by people under much the same conditions and with the same skill and discrimination abilities. If it's a very small number those reports are meaningful, if it's a large number they're not.
Nill Toulme
New member
Well here's two Mark II's with none of those AF problems (other than the many that are acknowledged to be operator headspace errors, of which I have plenty also). There's very little I would change about my Mark II's.
The only thing about them that *really* irritates me is when they sometimes simply refuse to fire when ordered to in very low light. That makes me crazy. But it only happens occasionally, and only in *very* low light (i.e., somewhere south of ISO 3200, 1/400 @ f/2.8).
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
The only thing about them that *really* irritates me is when they sometimes simply refuse to fire when ordered to in very low light. That makes me crazy. But it only happens occasionally, and only in *very* low light (i.e., somewhere south of ISO 3200, 1/400 @ f/2.8).
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
Jane Auburn
New member
Yet more fodder:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=18235
This is definitely not an isolated issue.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=18235
This is definitely not an isolated issue.
Nill Toulme
New member
I still think it's all highly subjective and largely, if not exclusively, one or both of specific camera problems or operator misfire. I've seen people say their IIn was a lot better than their old II, and I've seen people say their old II was better. I've seen people say their II is better than their original 1D and vice versa. Personally, I've never used an N, but I've had one 1D and currently two Mark II's, and I've used them all simultaneously, side by side at one time or another, and I could never tell one microscopic iota of difference between them in terms of their AF performance.
The cameras are certainly far from perfect, but they are incredibly responsive and highly configurable, and there are *many* ways to use them wrong.
When I see some objective, controlled testing that concludes there is literally something wrong with the design of these cameras, then I'll believe it.
I will add that I can very easily see where using AI servo focusing in a static wedding-type scenario could lead to grief, *especially* if the half shutter press is used for AF rather than switching it to * via CF4. That's why the camera has one shot AF in the first place.
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
The cameras are certainly far from perfect, but they are incredibly responsive and highly configurable, and there are *many* ways to use them wrong.
When I see some objective, controlled testing that concludes there is literally something wrong with the design of these cameras, then I'll believe it.
I will add that I can very easily see where using AI servo focusing in a static wedding-type scenario could lead to grief, *especially* if the half shutter press is used for AF rather than switching it to * via CF4. That's why the camera has one shot AF in the first place.
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
Will_Perlis
New member
"This is definitely not an isolated issue."
It is, however, your (and perhaps other's) issue and not one belonging to those who don't have problems. If those negative reports bother you, don't buy one. Unlike most real-world decisions, it's really as simple as that.
It is, however, your (and perhaps other's) issue and not one belonging to those who don't have problems. If those negative reports bother you, don't buy one. Unlike most real-world decisions, it's really as simple as that.
Rob.Martin
New member
It's typically user error
I use the 1D2 and 1ds2 (before I sold it) for these types of pics in bad light.
I am happy with it
Jane Auburn said:
I use the 1D2 and 1ds2 (before I sold it) for these types of pics in bad light.
I am happy with it
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Rob,
At 1/100 sec this is a great capture. Where where you, with M.J. dangling his baby as bait?
This cat looks like ready to feed big time?
And you did it recently!
So what's the story of the picture?
Asher
At 1/100 sec this is a great capture. Where where you, with M.J. dangling his baby as bait?
This cat looks like ready to feed big time?
And you did it recently!
So what's the story of the picture?
Asher
Rob.Martin
New member
We have a favourite spot
We go there quite often. This day was challenging as there was some drizzle and it was very dark and overcast. Lucky we're using 1 series gear. It was quite wet.
It's a 300/2.8 with a 1D MarkII.
The Tigers in this enclosure wake up around 4pm each day before they are led inside for dinner and a nights rest. (Not that they need it, sleeping all day)
I have quite a few on my pbase account (lecter) or www.1ds.com, as does colin dunjohn, who introduced me to the place (butterflyman on pbase).
Anyone coming to thailand, I'll take you there...
Rob
We go there quite often. This day was challenging as there was some drizzle and it was very dark and overcast. Lucky we're using 1 series gear. It was quite wet.
It's a 300/2.8 with a 1D MarkII.
The Tigers in this enclosure wake up around 4pm each day before they are led inside for dinner and a nights rest. (Not that they need it, sleeping all day)
I have quite a few on my pbase account (lecter) or www.1ds.com, as does colin dunjohn, who introduced me to the place (butterflyman on pbase).
Anyone coming to thailand, I'll take you there...
Rob
Asher Kelman said:
Scott B. Hughes
New member
Rob.Martin said:Anyone coming to thailand, I'll take you there...
Rob
I understand it's very wet now.... the coup is not an issue. (Nor has been OOF images with our 1DII at 125k shutter releases).
Mahalo.
Rob.Martin
New member
rains heavily at night
skies kinda suck
Scott B. Hughes said:
skies kinda suck