by request ....... simple

james sperry · Feb 20, 2009

okay asher,
here ya go

. a simple photo for you. i love these ducks, they are my favorite but the malard comes in at a close second.

copyright james b sperry

Asher Kelman · Feb 20, 2009

Hi James,

I do like ducks. This duck has nice coloring. How is it processed and do you have the uncropped original image? Tell us what it is, how or why it's photographed. Is it wooden or real? I'd like to see it in more water. This is a subject that really interests me as it is a challenge to do well, deal with the water, reflection, birds feathers, eye and more. I am holding back my opinions until others give their views otherwise I might inhibit better ideas than mine!

Asher

Eric Diller · Feb 20, 2009

NIce capture of a beautiful duck. They have some amazing color.
I agree with Asher, i think it needs more water and cropped a little different in my opinion. I think the Duck is to centered in this crop.
I know how tuff it is to get those eyes in perfect focus, they naturally look a little out of focus due to their deep red color.
Maybe I would open some shadows on the backside of the duck as well.

Nice job on a duck that is hard to approach!

Eric

James Newman · Feb 20, 2009

I have always liked these kinds of ducks because of the colors and patterns that they carry and how it looks like they come complete with a helmet for their protection. The only ones I have seen around live in our zoo with the flamingos. The colors seem a bit odd or off in this image. The water looks almost orange. Is it just me? Perhaps it is time for me to profile my monitor again?
James

james sperry · Feb 20, 2009

James Newman said:
I have always liked these kinds of ducks because of the colors and patterns that they carry and how it looks like they come complete with a helmet for their protection. The only ones I have seen around live in our zoo with the flamingos. The colors seem a bit odd or off in this image. The water looks almost orange. Is it just me? Perhaps it is time for me to profile my monitor again?
James

nope. your monitor is fine. it's just good 'ol oklahoma pond water. the lakes are about the same just with a little bit more of a green tint.

james sperry · Feb 20, 2009

Asher Kelman said:
Hi James,

I do like ducks. This duck has nice coloring. How is it processed and do you have the uncropped original image? Tell us what it is, how or why it's photographed. Is it wooden or real? I'd like to see it in more water. This is a subject that really interests me as it is a challenge to do well, deal with the water, reflection, birds feathers, eye and more. I am holding back my opinions until others give their views otherwise I might inhibit better ideas than mine!

Asher

okie-dokie,
one original!! it is a real duck, there wasn't really any processing done to other than changing from raw to jpg and sharpen. it's called a wood duck and it is a male. i took the image because it's my favorite type of duck.

james sperry · Feb 20, 2009

Eric Diller said:
NIce capture of a beautiful duck. They have some amazing color.
I agree with Asher, i think it needs more water and cropped a little different in my opinion. I think the Duck is to centered in this crop.
I know how tuff it is to get those eyes in perfect focus, they naturally look a little out of focus due to their deep red color.
Maybe I would open some shadows on the backside of the duck as well.

Nice job on a duck that is hard to approach!

Eric

thanks eric,

when my wife gets off the other computer i'll look into working on the shadows.

Don Cohen · Feb 20, 2009

Wonderful duck, James. I love 'woodies' as well!

Exposure, color and sharpness all look right on the money. Regarding the shadows, I doubt that there's much there - those parts of the duck are pretty dark to begiin with.

I agree with the others that different cropping could enhance the image. Looking at the original, I would crop from the bottom and left, to place the duck near the lower left "power point" and give room for it to "swim into."

james sperry · Feb 20, 2009

okay,
so here is a re-compose. what do you think? .... i was thinking that there is to much water. but to get the subject in a good spot, i loose the water trail behind the duck, if i place the subject to far to the right, there is no place for it to go. lol .... maybe it's just me. send me some love

.

oklahoma
Wood Duck or Carolina Duck (Aix sponsa)
canon rebel xt
75-300mm
f5.6

copyright james b sperry

almost forgot!! this is the male of the species, and only shows these colors during mating season. during winter, they turn to a medium grey and white with a little bit of green and blue in parts of the feathers.

Charles L Webster · Feb 20, 2009

Better cropped this way. This provides a more dynamic composition.

james sperry · Feb 21, 2009

thanks charles, i'm compairing the two images still. i'm thinking that maybe it's just the angle of the duck that i'm having issues with in the recomp. i went back into my library of photos and found this one and applied your advice to it. the focus is a little soft ... lol.

sorry for the small posts. i had to change to flickr because the other photohost takes way to long to transfere images. flickr will lot let me choose what size to display (it's the freebee).

James Newman · Feb 21, 2009

Try Photobucket. It is free and you won't be stuck with these very small images.

james sperry · Feb 21, 2009

James Newman said:
Try Photobucket. It is free and you won't be stuck with these very small images.

lol. ....... photobucket was what i was using.

Charles L Webster · Feb 21, 2009

On the mallards, I think this composition doesn't work well, because the point of attention (ducks heads) are almost dead center in the frame.

The rules of composition mostly apply to where you put the center of interest and the elements that lead the eye to that center of interest. Here, cropping to put the ducks in the top left corner puts their heads right on the center line.

Can we see this one uncropped, please?

I love the mallards, they are the most prevalent duck in this area. We almost never see woodies though.

<Chas>

james sperry · Feb 21, 2009

sure! i'll have to do it a little later tonight or first thing tomorrow. need to spend some time with the frau

.

okay,
she's talking to her buddy

, play time!!

shot in montana
rebel xt
75-300mm
mallards
iso100

[/IMG]
copyright james b sperry

Asher Kelman · Feb 21, 2009

Hi James,

In general, in the beginning, before you are famous, it's a great idea to be really generous in taking more of the neighborhood of the creature. That allows many more choices in subsequent final composition. As you'll get to see, I believe that one of the most common mistakes is coming home with tightly framed images. In getting a kill or bird in flight, the most important thing is tracking and focus and exposure. For less frantic situations, it's the entire universe of the bird we want to get hold of.

So feel free to post uncropped pictures here too. Each time you make a decision, then we can see what you had to work with and then everyone can learn. However, there's no custom we have of doing that or requiring the initial shot. However, often it really helps us understand what's going on so it's good to give that consideration. Also the pictures should be large enough to see the details that are important. For example, here it would be great to show the detail on an eye or a portion of the color patten to see the feathers, if that's what you'd be comfortable in sharing. This use of cutouts at 100% gives a perfect way to show off the picture without giving away a high quality full copy.

Anyway, it's wonderful to see these birds and we want more! If you have a collection of them, think of making a calendar for 2010.

Asher

james sperry · Feb 21, 2009

ouch,
when i wanted to start getting more serious about my images, i bought alot of books and magazines. i read up on everything that i could. one of the things that all the books said to do was, "try to crop in camera. leave yourself a little room to crop in editing".... so, the majority of my library will look as so .........

montana june 2006
rebel xt
75-300
iso 100

copyright james b sperry

montana june 2006
rebel xt
75-30
iso 100

copyright james b sperry

i was curious about this composition. would this work out with the ducks at an angle from corner to corner and the heads being close to the 1/3 proportions?

lol ..... i have a ton of them..... are you sure you want to see more. they are nothing like eric's shots though! ... that guy is da'bomb.

p.s. i have no problems with sharing anything with anybody here. as long as everybody takes my attempts seriously

james sperry · Feb 21, 2009

montana june 2006
rebel xt / 75-300
iso 100
original shot

copyright james b sperry

montana june 2006
rebel xt / 75-300
iso 100
cropped and corrected

copyright james b sperry

james sperry · Feb 21, 2009

oklahoma feb 2009
rebel xt/ 75-300 / iso100
female mallard i think, i always see them with the males.... so i'm guessing on this

this is the original shot, cropped in camera (or i cropped the original, i can't find it ... lol)

copyright james b sperry

Asher Kelman · Feb 21, 2009

Don't crop tight, just print large!

© James B Sperry Cropped

James,

Look at the water. It not only holds the ducks but also their reflections. More than that it also has a pleasing repeating pattern. So this is a part of a picture, like the furrows in a plowed field or lines of vines in a vineyard that provides a texture and information about that world. So why cut this out. Keep at as large as possible so long as the ducks are still important.

The crop here, is a loss compared to the original. That water is something I'd not want to remove that readily. I'd be tempted to clone the water and increase it, not crop it! I'm sure you have enough source images from the same shoot to do a great job!

When one wants to hunt the duck for food, one needs to get it with one clean shot. To show it in flight, good tracking. Here a wide view will not help show the details of the feathers in a final print.

But to deliver to us the feeling for the world, We can think wide! That duck is part of its world and, BTW, the colors of it's water world are pleasing. Why crop it away?

So here's an idea, don't crop tight, just print larger!

Asher

james sperry · Feb 21, 2009

okay,
this is going to take me a few days. but, i'll be back ! thanks asher.

James Newman · Feb 21, 2009

Not to get off topic too much but since you are now having to show such small images it bothers me. Concerning your problem uploading images to Photobucket...are you uploading original fullsize images? Doing that will definitely increase the time needed. I never do that however. I only use that hosting site to hold images I will be sending in emails, using in forums like this, etc. Like Asher mentioned, I don't want to give away a high quality full copy to everyone. I downsize my images first and then upload to Photobucket. It is very quick that way and they still are fine for web viewing. People can still copy them but the quality would only be acceptable perhaps for a very small print so it does not concern me as much.
James

james sperry · Feb 21, 2009

lol ..... that's flattering!
right now i honestly don't think that is something that i have to worry about. if somebody steals one of my images, they probably have just as much bad judgement as i do.... lol .... but, i do need to start getting in the habit of copyrighting my images and protecting myself.
but, i'm back to using photobucket. everything is working fine now. i don't know what was going on. the whole day it was taking me an hour just to download 1 photo. i upload the original and then resize it in the host site, save that copy and delete the original. saves room on my computer

.

james sperry · Feb 25, 2009

ok,
sorry asher, i tried to add more water to the images..... but, it was extremely obvious and reaaaaaallllllllly bad looking ... lol. so, i went and edited some more of my stock to get these images. but, i edited the original and not a copy of it so, i can't post the original for you. sorry if the images look a little wierd. these finches came to the apple tree right outside of our kitchen window all the time. so i took this image through a screen. i tried to fix it as much as possible.

but, i'm hoping i'm getting a little closer to the cropping with the rule of 3rds.... send me some more tough love!!

rebel xt/ iso100/75-200
22apr07/ montana

(c) james b sperry

rebel xt/ iso100/75-200
22apr07/ montana

(c) james b sperry

Asher Kelman · Feb 26, 2009

(c) James B. Sperry

This is especially delightful in the synergy between the shapes and coloring of the bird and the twigs. It's as if the painter used the same dabs of red on the buds and birds. The thrust of the beak appears to be mirrored in the counter-thrust of the twig pointing back towards it. Also the head of the bird does occupy a satisfying position!

How much of the original picture was this? IOW with this Canon Digital Rebel camera, you appear have done a great job, it seems, in landing the image on enough pixels! How far away where you?

I hope it prints as well as it appears. It might benefit from some contrast adjustment and sharpening.

Asher

james sperry · Feb 26, 2009

asher,
thanks!! not only for your comments but the help from the forum and yourself. i've been shooting by myself for so long and not had anybody to share information with. i understand that i still have tons to learn, but this here feels like a huge leap ( even though it's not ... lol ).

if i remember correctly, this is about 1/3 to 1/4 of the original. i think the distance of the tree to the window was about 15'. i shot about 20 frames in burst mode (manual). some of them came out a little off focus, but because i shot them through a window screen they needed lots of help in ps ( i can post the frame prior to this for you to see when i get on the other computer ). when you said that they could use some contrast adjustment, was this because they look a little 'over done'? just curious. my monitors are not calibrated so i'm wondering how far off the images are that i am seeing from the images you are seeing.

your statement about the 'landing enough pixels', kind of goes with a feeling that i have been having about my camera. the images just don't have the same "crispness" now as they did when i first purchased the camera. this photo of the finch was taken before the duck images that are posted here in this thread. is there a time when digital cameras just start falling in image detail? i asked this question in the last forum that i tried and i was pretty much flamed and called an idiot.

i've been looking at the prices of the 1D (used, body only). i'm thinking maybe in the next 3 or 4 months (finances willing

) i can pick one up.

james sperry · Feb 26, 2009

Asher Kelman said:
(c) James B. Sperry

This is especially delightful in the synergy between the shapes and coloring of the bird and the twigs. It's as if the painter used the same dabs of red on the buds and birds. The thrust of the beak appears to be mirrored in the counter-thrust of the twig pointing back towards it. Also the head of the bird does occupy a satisfying position!

How much of the original picture was this? IOW with this Canon Digital Rebel camera, you appear have done a great job, it seems, in landing the image on enough pixels! How far away where you?

I hope it prints as well as it appears. It might benefit from some contrast adjustment and sharpening.

Asher

james sperry said:
asher,
thanks!! not only for your comments but the help from the forum and yourself. i've been shooting by myself for so long and not had anybody to share information with. i understand that i still have tons to learn, but this here feels like a huge leap ( even though it's not ... lol ).

if i remember correctly, this is about 1/3 to 1/4 of the original. i think the distance of the tree to the window was about 15'. i shot about 20 frames in burst mode (manual). some of them came out a little off focus, but because i shot them through a window screen they needed lots of help in ps ( i can post the frame prior to this for you to see when i get on the other computer ). when you said that they could use some contrast adjustment, was this because they look a little 'over done'? just curious. my monitors are not calibrated so i'm wondering how far off the images are that i am seeing from the images you are seeing.

your statement about the 'landing enough pixels', kind of goes with a feeling that i have been having about my camera. the images just don't have the same "crispness" now as they did when i first purchased the camera. this photo of the finch was taken before the duck images that are posted here in this thread. is there a time when digital cameras just start falling in image detail? i asked this question in the last forum that i tried and i was pretty much flamed and called an idiot.

i've been looking at the prices of the 1D (used, body only). i'm thinking maybe in the next 3 or 4 months (finances willing ) i can pick one up.

okay,
here is the prior frame shot. as you can see, the window screen is less than desireable. the original image was exactly the same size and color. only cropping and color management was done.

unedited rebel xt
iso100 / 75-300
montana / finch

(c) JAMES B SPERRY

by request ....... simple

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