Irrevocably stupid......

Rob.Martin · Jun 18, 2006

It must be my turn.
I am now banned again at DPR for voicing an opinion that someone took exception to.
Oh well, I guess that I was wrong, and I'll not be back there again, some rediculously heavy handedness on their behalf, but as in an information source it's really dried up recently.
I look forward to some frank but civil discussions here, even accepting a bit of tongue in cheek on occassion ??
I'm off out now on a horrid overcast afternoon in Bangkok, to see if there's anything worth photographing.
rant end....
welll not so much a rant.
Rob

Harvey Moore · Jun 18, 2006

Thats hard to do on that site, although I was publicly reprimanded by Phil for criticising one of his test procedures.

harvey

Don Lashier · Jun 18, 2006

Hi Rob,

I've never understood Phil's banning criteria. David Pennybaker got banned for something trivial and about the same time some lunatic was looking up and posting personal information of anyone who didn't use a pseudonym (including me) to prove the point that the internet is "dangerous" and no one should use their real name, and Phil didn't do anything.

> but as in an information source it's really dried up recently

Recently? Whatever info there is got buried in the noise years ago. I stopped going there about 5 years ago unless I have a very specific search on an obscure topic.

- DL

Michael Tapes · Jun 18, 2006

I think I have been banned on about 5 different occasions at DPR. I just go there now to try to help my WhiBal customers who have questions, or to add to a thread that hits my peripheral vision. I feel that I am doing Phil and my customers a service, but in many cases he thinks it an ad. It is a no win for me. If I do not respond my customers lose out (same can be said for any company Representative, as long as they disclose their affiliations), and if I do respond, I can get banned. And it is totally illegal on DPR to steer people to the official support site, which is where they should be asking the questions. So in my mind if Phil does not want people to leave his site to go to the official site, then he should allow proper responses to customer questions.

For the past 6 months or so, I have been doing this without a ban, but I fear it with every post, which is ridiculous.

Rob.Martin · Jun 18, 2006

rabble will start to crowd

Michael Tapes said:
I think I have been banned on about 5 different occasions at DPR. I just go there now to try to help my WhiBal customers who have questions, or to add to a thread that hits my peripheral vision. I feel that I am doing Phil and my customers a service, but in many cases he thinks it an ad. It is a no win for me. If I do not respond my customers lose out (same can be said for any company Representative, as long as they disclose their affiliations), and if I do respond, I can get banned. And it is totally illegal on DPR to steer people to the official support site, which is where they should be asking the questions. So in my mind if Phil does not want people to leave his site to go to the official site, then he should allow proper responses to customer questions.

For the past 6 months or so, I have been doing this without a ban, but I fear it with every post, which is ridiculous.

as cameras like the 5D hit the masses. Second Hand Series "2" cameras will be awesome for many a good year yet, so we might expect more of it. I jest of course when I call it rabble. But certainly there's some strange questions afoot there.

I'll enjoy an informative and fulfilling experience elsewhere I am sure, plus I'll take more photos.

Which is the point in the end...

Rob

Diane Fields · Jun 18, 2006

Yes it is Rob (the point that is)---but I don't think you were the only one banned in the recent while (how does one know when others have been banned anyhow--they just disappear I guess. I do remember DAvid P's multiple bannings though--one was for running up a thread to 150 quickly as I recall LOL. I've noticed several other long time members missing so assume they have been banned. I just skim the threads---many of the questions now just seem absurd and sensible ones mostly get lost in the shuffle.

I was unaware about not being able to direct people to other sites--I do it all the time, but maybe you (Michael) mean the owner of the site can't direct them to his support site--like Mike Chaney, Michael, Eric from Bibble, some of the small developers of software, etc.

Dierk Haasis · Jun 18, 2006

I've given up on DPR's forums a long time ago - not because of the banning policy that isn't one. The noise-signal ratio is so bad. Fortunately the most interesting correspondents are also found on other forums or have their own board:

- Michael Tapes is here, on pixmantec, has RAWWorkflow.com
- Mike Chaney's articles are found at Steve's Digicam; his QImage is supported through a mailing list
- John Beardsworth is on at least two forums I visit regularly (no idea if you've ever been with DPR)
- the member's roster on The Open Photography forum is impressive
- Adobe has it's own board, accessible through the Web and Usenet
- when it comes to scanning issues, incl. Vuescan, several Usenet groups are quite good, giving me the opinions and help from folks like Bart van der Wolf
- photo-i is also a good site

Phil still does good reviews.

scott kirkpatrick · Jun 18, 2006

Banning's out of hand at dpreview

There are automatic snitches, url-removers (that replace url's that take you off the site to a "competitor" with a smarmy note that the URL is removed because of possible spam) and remarkably ignorant henchpersons whose bannings can be reversed by direct appeal to Phil. It gets funny. On the usually calm and polite Olympus DSLR forum, Jim Porter, a long-time and always helpful contributor, got banned one day for no reason that anyone could ever understand, and was suddenly reinstated about 149 posts later. A few days back a "what do you do in the real world" thread that had accumulated about 50 responses in four hours vanished in a puff of smoke. One participant contributed a description of what it feels like to be reading a post that is in the process of being disappeared.

Taking exception to the technical expertise of the site (their test quality is kinda shaky, as you find out if you download his chart shots) is a guaranteed no-no, and usually gets an angry response from Phil himself.

I agree about SNR. I scan to see if old friends still post, and to look for early user problems (in the new Ricoh forum).

scott

Asher Kelman · Jun 20, 2006

There's an inherent risk in free speech. Someone can always do the unacceptable.
However, I believe that a good forum self regulates.

Asher

Nill Toulme · Jun 20, 2006

Geez, I feel left out, never been banned anywhere. Maybe I should try harder. :-(

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Bart_van_der_Wolf · Jun 20, 2006

Nill Toulme said:
Geez, I feel left out, never been banned anywhere. Maybe I should try harder. :-(

Careful now, there's an intriguing little triangular traffic sign icon at the top right of the message. Wonder what happens if ... ;-)

Bart

Asher Kelman · Jun 28, 2006

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:
Careful now, there's an intriguing little triangular traffic sign icon at the top right of the message. Wonder what happens if ... ;-)

Bart

Bart,

I wouldn't worry too much about being reported for a bad post! A post is good or bad irrespective of whether or not someone objects. If someone uses his/her free will to be foolish, others will recognize that.

Doesn't bother me unless it is way out of line and a thorn!

Asher

Jeff Donovan · Jul 7, 2006

There is no such thing as free speech in a privately owned forum. The owner can essentially do as he/she wishes.

"Free speech" only applies to political speech in public forums.

Asher Kelman · Jul 8, 2006

Jeff Donovan said:
There is no such thing as free speech in a privately owned forum. The owner can essentially do as he/she wishes.

"Free speech" only applies to political speech in public forums.

Jeff,

I would qualify that.

Anyone who posts is exposing him/herself to the criticism and evaluation of other forum members. so in that sense, each post costs in that it is swomewhat a risk to one's reputation and the trust people might have.

As far as I'm concerned, this forum is free within the bounds of normal respect, self worth and civility.

I trust people, that's all.

Asher

Dierk Haasis · Jul 8, 2006

Asher Kelman said:
As far as I'm concerned, this forum is free within the bounds of normal respect, self worth and civility.

I trust people, that's all.

Which is what Freedom is about: You have to trust people, be trustworthy yourself, and give others their freedom. Some nation's constutions point this out very clearly, "[...] every freedom to you as long as it does not encroach upon the freedom of others."

Another phrase usually associated with the concept of Liberalism [the true one, based in the University of Edinburgh] is "Be liberal in assessing others but conservative towards your own actions."

Doug Kerr · Jul 8, 2006

Hi, Asher,

Well said.

Best regards,

Doug

Alain Briot · Jul 8, 2006

Dierk Haasis said:
Some nation's constutions point this out very clearly, "[...] every freedom to you as long as it does not encroach upon the freedom of others." Another phrase usually associated with the concept of Liberalism [the true one, based in the University of Edinburgh] is "Be liberal in assessing others but conservative towards your own actions."

Remembering both of these the next time you are in a challenging situation will go a long ways towards helping you master diplomacy, an art form it itself in many ways

Dierk Haasis · Jul 8, 2006

Alain, not me, diplomacy is for sissys [ask Junior in DC]! I am looking for truth.

[Usually I hate this but since it may be a bit difficult to discern my rather dry humour at times, here's a hint: ;-)]

Alain Briot · Jul 8, 2006

Dierk Haasis said:
Alain, not me, diplomacy is for sissys [ask Junior in DC]! I am looking for truth.
[Usually I hate this but since it may be a bit difficult to discern my rather dry humour at times, here's a hint: ;-)]

I agree ;-) Hint, Hint! Just keep an eye out for my next essay on my site in the "Thoughts & Photographs" series. I'm putting the finishing touches to it, and getting all the necessary approvals (including Jr's and the Supreme Court ;-) then it's off for public consumption.

It's a fun one. Warning: bring your sense of humor!

Alain Briot · Jul 9, 2006

It's online, it's provocative, and above all it is about luck and the law. How does that all play out? Well, I suppose there is only one way to find out, and that is to read it. Below is the link, but before I type it, keep in mind this quote which appears at the beginning of the essay:

Fiction: Is it real? Yes. Did it happen? No.
Allen Woodman, Professor of English & Creative Writing
Northern Arizona University

Now, here is the link:
http://beautiful-landscape.com/Thoughts47.html

Anita Saunders · Jul 9, 2006

Alain Briot said:
Now, here is the link:
http://beautiful-landscape.com/Thoughts47.html

Lucky in your Arizona 'double exposure'?

You must be lucky alright ... to own Photoshop CS2 at the highly inflated RRP !

If I were you, I would plead insanity.

Alain Briot · Jul 10, 2006

LittleG. said:
Lucky in your Arizona 'double exposure'?
You must be lucky alright ... to own Photoshop CS2 at the highly inflated RRP !
If I were you, I would plead insanity.

As I say at the end of the essay, there is no way to win in this situation. Everyone has an issue with it. Are you a Club member? ;-)

Rob.Martin · Jul 10, 2006

Smiles

At the end of the essay, one can only smile.
"life is a box of chocolates . . . . . "
Cheers
Rob

Alain Briot said:
As I say at the end of the essay, there is no way to win in this situation. Everyone has an issue with it. Are you a Club member? ;-)

Alain Briot · Jul 10, 2006

Rob.Martin said:
At the end of the essay, one can only smile.
"life is a box of chocolates . . . . . "
Cheers
Rob

That's the idea :- )

Tim Rogers · Jul 12, 2006

It's not that hard..

Nill Toulme said:
Geez, I feel left out, never been banned anywhere. Maybe I should try harder. :-(

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

......I just served a ten day sentence of being banned at DPR for getting into an angry exchange with someone who rubbed me the wrong way. Lesson learned I guess.......walk away from a quarrel and live to post another day........lol

Rob.Martin · Jul 12, 2006

unreasonable a$$es

I have been banned for no reason a few times, and no manner of email stating my case gets any response. I like some of the banter, but looks like I cannot get back anyway. Oh well.
You people(s) will have to put up with me..
haha

Rob

Tim Rogers said:
......I just served a ten day sentence of being banned at DPR for getting into an angry exchange with someone who rubbed me the wrong way. Lesson learned I guess.......walk away from a quarrel and live to post another day........lol

Dierk Haasis · Jul 12, 2006

Tim Rogers said:
walk away from a quarrel

Reminds me of the German adage "Der Klügere gibt nach", 'He who is smarter Giveth in'. sounds good, eh? Well, could the world's state be what it is because most people went with that? Guess so, eventually if the smarter give in, the stupid rule ...

Peter Galbavy · Jul 17, 2006

Jeff Donovan said:
"Free speech" only applies to political speech in public forums.

And in jurisdictions where there is a concept and protection of free speech.

With the best intentions in the world, please remeber that the world is not the U.S.A.

Asher Kelman · Jul 17, 2006

My intention is indeed free speech, even political in the appropriate room as long as it doesn't beak the law or demean someone on the forum or get us involved in a law suit.

I will use my best judgement to protect an open forum and OPF itself.

It's a multiway trust system.

Asher

Dennis Wood · Aug 11, 2006

Asher Kelman said:
Jeff,

I would qualify that.

Anyone who posts is exposing him/herself to the criticism and evaluation of other forum members. so in that sense, each post costs in that it is swomewhat a risk to one's reputation and the trust people might have.

As far as I'm concerned, this forum is free within the bounds of normal respect, self worth and civility.

I trust people, that's all.

Asher

Amazing how such a simple concept can work so well. I sometimes browse thru the DPR forums as well, and have pretty much stopped posting anything, even if its to help someone asking a legitimate question. It usually results in a know-it-all jumping in to tell me how wrong I am and going on to bash the original poster for something or another. It sometimes seems like a grammar-school recess yard.

The atmosphere here is quite refreshing, thanks.!!

Irrevocably stupid......

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