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canon MP-E 65mm Macro

Ivan Garcia

New member
I am considering the purchase of this lens.
Could any one who has used it, advice me on how it compares with the canon 100mm macro?
Also it will be nice to know if this lens has any issues as with regards of sharpness easy of use.
Kind regards
Ivan Garcia
 

Don Lashier

New member
This is not your ordinary macro lens and has a reputation of being difficult to use. I wouldn't recommend it as an only/first macro, but if you already have the 100mm and are ready to go deeper, it might be of interest. There are plenty of in-depth reviews if you google.

- DL
 

KrisCarnmarker

New member
Ivan, I just recently did some research on this lens (i.e. online reviews and other info) and actually had it on my B&H wishlist. However, I came to the conclusion that this is entirely another beast and it is too early for me to venture into the "2x or more" magnification realm :) I already own the Canon 100mm macro (which is fantastic) and decided to buy a set of extension tubes instead. This allows me to experiment with higher magnification without spending the money for the MP-E 65mm. Once I feel more comfortable at these magnifications I will reconsider.

I'm not saying you should do the same, I just figured I'd give you my take on it.

(I will be spending the money on a MT-24EX instead :) )
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
Thank you Don, Kris, and Bart
I do have the 100mm,I have been experimenting with extension tubes, and I am ready to go deeper, as for some extraordinary reason, the macro bug has me well and truly hooked.
My fortieth birthday is but a month away, so I am in the market for a new lens, since this is somewhat a special birthday, I though of either this lens or a travel lens (the new 24-105 L).
However if this macro lens has no known issues, I will be more inclined to get it over the 24-105.
I would love to hear from any one that has one (and if possible, some images demonstrating what it can do).Also I do have the MT-24 EX flash unit, any issues regarding it's use with this lens at max mag?
Kind regards
Ivan Garcia
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
How funny is that....
I was just reading an article about this lens by the same fellow in a different site http://www.vividlight.com/articles/2914.htm

It must be the only fellow in the www with this lens (well not for long)
Thank you all for your kind answers... I think this one is going to find a space in my bag the 14th next month (The wife won't let me have it now....:-(

Kind Regards
Ivan Garcia
 

Tom Henkel

New member
I have one. It's a very good qualilty lens that lets you get some shots you simply cannot get any other way. As others have said it's a tricky lens to get used to -- particularly at the 4X and 5X magnification settings. And if you are planning to buy one, a macro flash is really a must -- so make sure you budget accordingly. Also, a good macro focusing rail can come in very handy.

It's not the sort of lens most people use every day. But it's great to have one when you need it.

The other thing you should keep in mind is while some subjects lend themselves to extreme magnification, in other cases it can be difficult to produce a recognizable image. You might get some very interesting patterns, but most people might not recognize the subject. Hence sometimes the 100mm f/2.8 macro can sometimes deliver a better shot.

All said, I recommend the lens. Just understand it's not usually something out of the bag every day.

Tom
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
Thank you Tom
All things considered and after some www. Research, I have decided to get it.
Thank you all again for your kind responses.
Kindest of regards
Ivan Garcia
 

Stan Jirman

New member
I must say that I honestly admire everyone who's usning this lens to actually produce something. I love to look at macro shots, and use my 180 macro w/ 24EX flash regularly. However, I will admit that the MP-E is the only lens I've ever returned afer buying it: the working distance of "zero" was simply too much (or rather, too little) for my patience. As much as I'd love to take pictures like these, it was a very depressing experience :)

Seriously, guys - how do you approach your subjects? I know that not all bugs will run away, but I see pictures of wasps and flies and other insects which are usually hard to approach even with a 180mm... not to mention moving subjects... I have the greatest admiration for you!
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
WOW… some amazing galleries, here is another one…
http://www.pbase.com/smhoer/the_backyard_universe
To be perfectly honest I was researching this lens 1_ because you don’t turn 40 every day and is somewhat of a landmark J
2 _I’ve got a little pet project that only this lens will allow me to pursue.
I will begin work on it as soon as this lens lands on my bag.
Once I’ve finish it (it will take some time so be patient) you guys will get the first view, (I would not dream of going public with it without your feed back)
Again thank you all for your kind response, you guys are great.
Kind regards
Ivan Garcia
 

Anita Saunders

New member
Hi Ivan - I have had the 100mm macro for some years now and I always loved it. I have also experimented with bellows and an inverted standard lens, and also attaching a camera to a microscope.

I was dissatisfied with the microscope as I could not get any dof (aperture is zero) and although I had a couple of reasonable pictures from flat objects, it was a waste of effort for subjects with depth. The inverted lens and bellows was interesting to work with as I could control a little more dof on a long exposure (using natural light). However neither method was very portable and therefore not practical for insect photography. This is when I set my heart on an MP E65!

I have only had my E-65 for a couple of months so it is early days yet, but it is portable and you are able to get some dof if you use high iso and longer exposure, but I really need a macro flash so I can capture moving insects etc and use smaller apertures.

At x1 magnification you get a similar result as with the 100mm macro and you can fit whole insects in the frame, but you can also shoot at x2, x3, x4 and x5 magnification so you would expect each of those captures to show an increasingly smaller area of the subject and if the subject is not tiny (as a whole) then you would have a rather abstract portion of the subject. At the higher end, you need more light and you are so close to the subject I must warn you that the slightest movement of your camera will easily push the focus out.

It's fun, but as I say, I am still learning so I have no pics worthy of display yet!

All the best and let us know how you get on with yours.
 
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Another item I have heard of that can be useful for insect hunters is a shoulder pod. I would actually suspect a macro focussing rail is also useless in hunting live insects as tripods are typically useless at 1:1 due to spooking your prey long before you can get set up. This is not to say that using a focus rail would not be useful for other subject (dead things and those that are inanimate).

At this scales 1-5X magnification you should be able to use just about any flash bracket and flash (E-TTL prefered to allow full manual shooting) as the flash head is often much larger than the subject creating adequate diffusion. Using a diffuser or polarizer might help with more specular subjects. Nonetheless, the MT24-EX looks more convenient.

some thoughts,

Sean
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
Hi Sean.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Although I do not want to pursue an insect (or any other micro fauna) I do have a pet project in mind. I do recognize that in order to make a mark in this industry, you need to come out with something special.
That, I’ve got, (please forgive me for not stating exactly what this project is, but as we all know, competition is fearsome in this business).
The macro rail will be an invaluable asset for my project, as my subject will be static.
Like I said, once this lens is in my bag, I will start work immediately, I did not wait 40 years for nothing… I hope the final result, will be pleasing to enough people, so that I can make a name for myself… wish me luck …
Kind regards
Ivan Garcia

Ps:
Little G... Am I to understand you are based in England? if so, I am based in London... it is my understatement you are interested in abstract macro photography.... me too... send me a Pm and lest get talking... I think my project has a future, and I won't mind sharing copyrights with the right person.... get in touch :).
 
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Mike Spinak

pro member
please forgive me for not stating exactly what this project is, but as we all know, competition is fearsome in this business

Ivan, there are other ways to get the competitive edge, regarding photos of particular subject matter, besides secrecy. These can include such options as photographing something that is nearly impossible, where no on else has ever succeeded, photographing the unique, and photographing the ephemeral, wherein nobody else will ever have access to your subject. Beyond these options, also note that your unqiue vision can separate your shots of a subject from others' photos of the same subject.

Besides, I think we all have our own pet projects filling our time, and have no need nor desire to copy others.

Nevertheless, I do understand that sometimes secrecy is still the best way. If you care to share details, we may be able to help. Whether you share or not, I wish you success in your project. I like when someone has a vision and a mission; I look forward to seeing the results.

Mike

www.mikespinak.com
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
Hi Mike
As always, you have wonderful insights.
My reasons for secrecy are very trivial; is a matter of insecurity from my part.
I am sure that none of you have the desire to copy any of my Ideas.
However, these forums are read by a large variety of people, which may or may not, have the same ethics.
In any case, I appreciate your impressions and comments. For people like me, (enthusiastic but with no formal training), it is only though our peers, that we can enrich our knowledge and thus, further improve our photographic techniques.
It is for this reason, I have come to realise; if I am to succeed in my endeavours, I need to put this project in hold, and pursue further education in this field.
Once I get proficient, I will reconsider taking this project to the next stage.
I was taught to do things right, or not to do them at all; I want to do this right, so is back to college for me :)
Kindest of regards
Ivan Garcia
 
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Rob.Martin

New member
I bought this lens

have rarely used it, but did get third place on a FM contest once with this image of the bottom of my Mont Blanc

7236128B2631-1-web.jpg
 

mdbassman

New member
I just purchased this fine lens to compliment my 100mm and 60mm macros. Yes it takes a lot of getting used to but in the end the captures are breathtaking. I used it in bright sunlight with no need for the ring flash.
Dan
 

Sven Bernert

New member
Happy with mine

This is not the usual „oh, there is a butterfly – bang!“ lens. Working with it and its swallow DOF at high mags in the field can be challenging (and quite exhausting when doing it longer). You need to learn where to place your plane of DOF and how to do this fast (with living subjects). One of my images happily sits at the frontpage of http://photomacrography.net/ This might be a good example of what I meant with the above, The image was created using a MP-E65, the Canon 1.4xTC and a Canon ring flash.

The other thing is that you need to know how to work your ring-/twin-/dual flash setup because working with available light only is another big challenge with this lens. Nevertheless I have fun with mine since years.

orig.jpg


Best,
Sven
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
My first decent shot with the Canon MP-E 65 Macro and MT24-EX combo (got it for my birthday; well, got it a while ago, but the missus, after an initial play arround, took it away and did not let me have it until my birthday came along. .Hand held, at X3 magnification 4x and 5x are just too hard to hand held.
IMG_3775.jpg

This fly was just 2mm in length taken hand held.
IMG_3770.jpg

All pictures taken today in my garden
 
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Mike Spinak

pro member
Ivan,

Looks like a decent start with the new lens.

Hand held, at X3 magnification 4x and 5x are just too hard to hand held.

Yes, I find that, when shooting very close up, hand held becomes even more problematic than it always is. Besides motion blur concerns (which can somewhat be ameliorated with flash at high speeds), depth of field is so narrow that the smallest and most unavoidable hand tremble throws everything out of of acceptable focus.

Mike

www.mikespinak.com
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
Thank you Mike.
I must say I am very pleased with the lens.
The ant flew away right after I took the shot, I think, I got lucky there, for as you can see, the wings were ready for take off as I was taking the picture.
I am not too sure about my sharpening technique; I’m really struggling with how much to apply.

Any advice on sharpening will be appreciated.
Kind regards
Ivan
 
Ivan Garcia said:
I am not too sure about my sharpening technique; I’m really struggling with how much to apply.

Any advice on sharpening will be appreciated.

If it looks like too much on screen, then it is too much.

Generally speaking, the goal of sharpening is to enhance the perception of localized contrast to make the perception of an image evoke more detail to the eyes.

You can enhance generalized local contrast using a radius of 15 and an amount of 15-30% without sharpening edges (this is great for urban skylines and other similar scenes like mountain landscapes).

You can enhance localized edge contrast for the screen using a radius of 0.5-1.3 and an amount ranging from 180-500% depending on what you sharpend (i.e., 500% on the K/black channel in CMYK may be appropo).

Viewing at 25-50% zoom and using a radius of 3 for sharpening 300 DPI prints is the general rule of thumb. For the amount to use, that really depends on the image.

If you can see halos, you have gone too far.

For a no-brainer approach look at http://www.thelightsright.com/TLRProfessionalSharpeningToolkit.htm (free) or Photokit Sharpener.

For a first tier exposition on the basics, read Professional Photoshop: The Classic Guide To Color Correction by Dan Margulis (there are several versions, get the latest). This is absolutely without question the only treatise I have read that actually discusses what sharpening does outside of technical computer vision oriented journal articles. The other 99.995% of articles aimed at Photoshop hold your hand and treat you like a toddler. Albeit, I am by training a mathematician with experience is computer vision and software engineering so I am biased against very over simplified approaches filled with lies (i.e., simplifications that damage understanding and intuition). If you want a simpler approach, than look at the TheLightsRight script or Photokit Sharpener. If you want to understand, Read the Margulis text. Margulis' rhetoric is that of an egotistical prick (takes one to know one ;o) and raises the hackles on my back, but he knows his stuff and I respect his writing.

my $0.01,

Sean (my $0.02 is worth $50-$250 and is fairly technical ;o)
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ivan,

I agree with everything Sean has said, including each of the numbers he gives for local and edge sharpening. Here's some extra points, that you already may know if you use unsharp mask in P.S.

Make several copies of your image to be sharpened, but turn off all but one layer which you make active. Sharpen using local sharpening. Then go to EDIT drop down menu and choose luminance and fade what you chose to the minimum your judgement will allow and then a tad more. Duplicate this layer and deactivate one copy. Now sharpen for edges as Sean has described and again fade to taste in the Edit drop down menu as before.

Now you have a sharpened image. However, do you want all of the image edge sharpened? If not, use a soft esge erasor brush and erase those parts of this layer that don't need that edge sharpening. To see what you are doing, have all the other layers turned off so what you are erassing is transparent.

Now switch on the locally sharpened layer, and you have a complete image. You now "Select All", "Copy Merge" and Paste and you have one layer with all the sharpening according to your wishes.

Wait, there's more! You may want to blur some feature a little. Duplicate your current sharpened image and switch off the copy.

Now, blur one of your original copies of your image. Switch off all other layers except your current sharpened image above it and then, as before, erase parts of the image you wish blurred with a brush with a very broad soft edge.

When you now "Select All", "Copy Merged", this time you have the insect sharpened completely, foliage locally sharpened, for example and anything you wish blurred.

Yes, Sean is right about Margulis' book. It is essential reading and you do get to meet him! Just for his view on CMYK he is worth reading.

Asher
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
WOW!!!
What a great response… you guys are just awesome, thank you all for your kind and generous feedback.
I’ll be going on holidays next Sunday, and so, away from my PC, so, I won’t have a chance to apply the lessons I’ve learned here today.
In any case, I shall get to it as soon as I get back, and post the resulting image.
Once again, thank you all for you kind generosity.
Kind regards
Ivan

PS: as Mike knows from a previous post, I am to enrol at “Uni” for my bachelors degree in arts, this will happened September next year, (missed the enrolment deadline for this year *sniff* *sniff*), as a mature student, one of the conditions for acceptance, is a large portfolio, so, be ready for a steady stream of posts asking for advice.
See you all in a month or so.
Ivan

PPS: I can see some banding on the fly picture, now, I don't know if this is due to my monitor being too close to a plasma display, or is the actual image that is affected.
Can you guys let me know if this most unwelcome defect is there?
 
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Another excellent technique is to take separate your sharpening into darkening and lightening components on separate layers. Explore and play with this. This is also a helpful technique for when you get haloing. You simply use a Layer Mask to paint off light or dark halos separately while retaing the sharpening of the dark or light side of an edge respectively.

enjoy,

Sean
 

Don Lashier

New member
Ivan Garcia said:
WOW!!!
PPS: I can see some banding on the fly picture, now, I don't know if this is due to my monitor being too close to a plasma display, or is the actual image that is affected.
Can you guys let me know if this most unwelcome defect is there?

Don't see any banding here.

- DL
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
Thank you Don that’s a relieve... :) I though I had the dreaded and infamous Canon banding effect.
Sean.
Thank you very much for all of your tips …. I think I’ve got enough there to keep me busy for a while once I comeback from my break.
Kind regards
Ivan
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Sven,

I used to see a physician taking macro pictures of skin lesions with a film camera. He had a piece of string at the plane of focus and use this to get an approximation and then drop the string and "Bob's your uncle!"

I wonder whether similar technics can be used for rapid positoning with insects and not startling them?

Asher
 
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