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Why Canon does not have good instructions

Richard Rickard

New member
I just purchased a 1 D camera and I am reading the manule. I told my wife that there is no info on using the features of this camera, she said you must be kidding you spend all this money for a camera and there is no info.
They tell you how to install a battery and to remove a card ect ect but!!! . To use the parameters and custom setting all they tell you is to push this button and turn that dial.
Some one needs to write a book or CANON IT SHOULD BE CANON AS THEY MAKE AND SELL THEM !!! on how to use a $1,400 to $7,000 camera. I belive that most people that own a 1D or a 10-30D do not know how really really reallt to use the camera the best way it was made to be used and have no idea what most of the fuctions on a 1D or a 10-30 D are or to be used.
A good detailed explantion on each fuction and what it does is what is needed.
I have also a 20 d, purchsed a Short course book and was of no use. Was the same as the manule.

Canon are you listening. Adobe gives classes on how to use there products. IDEA!!!

Richard Rickard
 

Don Lashier

New member
When I bought my 1D a number of years ago I was actually pleasantly surprised to find the manual rather complete and well written and organized, if a bit succinct. But I do have a couple criticisms: 1) the pf's aren't documented (except briefly) in the main manual, but rather in the software manual, and 2) the CF docs inexplicably omit the "0" option documentation. You must infer from the screen shot. But still, some of the CF's are rather arcane, particularly in their interaction, and Canon should get Chuck to write some manual enhancements. Note that Canon has published a few papers by Chuck on the more acane aspects of the pro bodies.

- DL
 

Jack Joseph Jr

New member
Maybe things have changed since the 1D. The manuals for my 1D Mark II N and 5D are excellent, expecially in their pdf forms. They are certainly not "how to become a photographer" manuals but they explain quite a bit.

If the 1D2N manual carefully laid out all of the circumstances under which one would select one setting over another it would be too fat to fit into the box that the camera comes in! It would literally be a course on photography.
 

Alain Briot

pro member
I also find that the Canon manual for the 1DsMk2 is very complete. I also found that I needed very little help to figure out the camera controls, except for the function numbers which are not always self explanatory. I definitly have no complaint about the 1DsMk2 manual or the Digital Rebel manual as well for that matter. I have not seen the other Canon manuals but I would expect them to be very similar in content.

Are you sure that what you are asking for is a "manual" and not a photography course?
 

Richard Rickard

New member
Too many Choices. Like Autofocus points , a little info on which one. to for say Weddings, nature. ect
and how they work in a give situation. You will not learn this in a photographic course about this camera.
Trial and error is not the way to go.
Example- Create folders How do you name one ,how many can there be in a card , how to select a file in a card to save pictures. these question are not there
 

Tom Wilk

New member
I think that Canon does a good job of explaining how to access and change camera functions in their manuals. Every operation (or nearly every one) is explained as to how to perform it on each model. It is, after all, an operating manual.

What they don't do in the manual is teach the basics of photography, nor do they describe application of some of the features very well. There seems to be a bit of an assumption that buyers of DSLR cameras in general are well-versed in photography, and that really isn't true.

There is some very useful information for both the novice and the fairly-seasoned user at Canon's Digital Learning Center:

http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/index.html
 

Brian Ripley

New member
Richard Rickard said:
Too many Choices. Like Autofocus points , a little info on which one. to for say Weddings, nature. ect
and how they work in a give situation. You will not learn this in a photographic course about this camera.

There are companies running courses on EOS cameras, including for specific models.
One in the UK is called `Experience Seminars'. I do think that might be a good idea for someone
who writes the way you do.
 
Richard Rickard said:
Trial and error is not the way to go.

I disagree. A camera is a tool of a photographer's trade, as for any other one else. A tool may or may not come with instructions that teach you how to go about your work, but if your expectation is to put your new purchase to immediate and productive use then you should know your own trade before you buy.

If you don't, then one very valid way to learn is to play - and play is fundementally about trial and error.

Digital photography has given me a way of playing that is, with the exception of the capital investment and time spent, "free". My cameras, lenses and other accessories have come with reference documentation that varies in quality and quantity but overall I have always turned to the Internet or others for help.
 
Peter Galbavy said:
I disagree. A camera is a tool of a photographer's trade, as for any other one else. A tool may or may not come with instructions that teach you how to go about your work, but if your expectation is to put your new purchase to immediate and productive use then you should know your own trade before you buy.

If you don't, then one very valid way to learn is to play - and play is fundamentally about trial and error.

Digital photography has given me a way of playing that is, with the exception of the capital investment and time spent, "free". My cameras, lenses and other accessories have come with reference documentation that varies in quality and quantity but overall I have always turned to the Internet or others for help.

I concur. My first Canon instruction manual (Elan IIe) was 100% complete. Sadly, it took years of study before the complete detail in the manual to make sense. Currently, all the Canon manuals I have read (3 in the last year) have been spot on and fully explained anything a experienced practicioner needs to know.

After all, when was the last time you saw a pair of dikes or a pair of cresent wrenches come with a manual about basic electronics or car engines. Or a flash light teaching with a manual telling you that you need to point it where you want to see.

just one opinion,

Sean
 
D

Doug Kerr

Guest
Well, why does Canon not have good instructions?

Hi, Richard,

I certainly agree that Canon could do a more thorough job in their EOS camera manuals. But it is very difficult to include in the manual a course in photography.

It is very difficult to balance opposing criteria for a manual. Some people would be very upset if the main manual for an EOS camera ran to 300 pages of thorough technical description. So we would have to have, not the two manuals currently supplied, but perhaps four, of graduated completeness. I myself would relish this.

I remember when Hewlett-Packard included a 450-page technical reference manual with a LaserJet printer. Later, they did not include it, but you could order it, free-of-charge. But did I ever say, "Confounded H-P, can't you do a better job of explaining what this PCL instruction does"? Yes, often.

There is no reason that many of us can't write to Canon and make specific recommendations for improvements in their manuals - both in the way specific details are explained and on broader points. I do.

But their spelling is pretty good most of the time.
 

Will_Perlis

New member
"But their spelling is pretty good most of the time"

Yes, and now I'm having flashbacks to writing a USPS bar-code printing routine for envelopes in PCL. Sheesh!

However, no matter what they do in the manual, using digital we have a major advantage in that it's very easy to experiment, we can see the results of changes in settings almost instantly.

IMX it was far easier to figure out what various settings did on the D30 or 1D vs. doing the same with the 1v and having to wait until the film came back a few days later and referring to (all too often incomplete) notes I'd made at the time.

An important shoot isn't the time to learn the camera's operation but there's plenty of time available for systematic exploration in between. I usually try almost any technique I've read about here or elsewhere just to see if it might be useful while waiting for my caffiene level to rise to operational levels.
 

Tim Rucci

Member
RE: Quality of Canon Manuals

I have to say that I am very satisfied with the quality of Canon's camera manuals. I have not found any problems with them, and the few times I didn't understand something I read in one of them, it was due to my lack of understanding of the subject matter, and not any deficiency in the manual.

I have shot with Canon cameras for over 30 years, and the first 26+ was with an old AE1-Program. I didn't consider myself very knowledgeable in terms of photography skills during that time. I purchased a 10D in early 2003, and I read the manual twice on-line before I decided to purchase the camera. I found that I understood most of what I read, except for a few details concerning custom settings. This reading got me acquainted enough with the camera to convince me that I wanted to purchase it.

After I got the camera, I worked out the details of all the custom settings as my general knowledge grew. Again, it was not due to any deficiency in the manual.

I purchased a 1D MkIIN about 4 months ago, and again I read the manual beforehand, but this time I did it 3 times prior to receiving the camera. I'll admit that there are a lot of settings, but the only thing that I did not fully grasp was some of the personal settings, and the way that the user can set groups of custom settings to interact with each other. Sometimes you almost need a flowchart to fully understand what is happening, until you go out and actually use the settings to observe how the camera reacts.

As owners of this camera know, it has both custom settings, and additonal personal settings, which all together add up to around 70 or more. I honestly have to say that understanding what these settings do requires a knowledge of how the camera works by default, because the custom and personal settings alter that. I don't think the manual could be done any better without it becoming ambiguous.

The manual describes how to use every button and every switch, and what each of them does. It often also tells the benefit of using many of these settings to suggest why the user may choose to use a particular setting.

If a camera owner is having trouble understanding something in the users manual, that's what these forums are for. I have gotten help in different photography forums when I didn't understand something, and I have always found it to be a valuable resource.

To the original poster, if you have specific questions let them fly. I'll bet you'll find folks here more than willing to help you.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Richard,

I find the 1DII pretty complete, except it is not illustrated as well as examples in Canon's pamphlets on Canon flash.

I have a paperback book that expands a little on the 1DII. When I get back to L.A. I'll look it up and see how it does on practical applications.

Canon's Digital Learning Center seems a good source.

Anyone like to post their impressions?

Asher
 

Alain Briot

pro member
Richard Rickard said:
Too many Choices. Like Autofocus points , a little info on which one. to for say Weddings, nature. ect
and how they work in a give situation. You will not learn this in a photographic course about this camera.
Trial and error is not the way to go.
Example- Create folders How do you name one ,how many can there be in a card , how to select a file in a card to save pictures. these question are not there

Not everything is in the manuals, especially with equipment that has a short life span. And if it's not in the manual, there's only 2 ways to learn: 1-trial and error and 2-study with people who have done the trial and error part and who are passing on their knowledge, either in a book, workshop, consulting, or this forum.

If there's a 3rd way I don't know what it is. Manufacturers are not photographers, and if specific information is included in their manuals (such as which focus mode is best for specific situation) it comes from a professional photographer's feedback based on trial and error.

In short, there is no substitute for experience :- )
 

Andrew Stannard

pro member
I have found the following document on Canon's Digital Learning Center particularly good:

http://photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf

Even as a 20D user I have found lots of useful tips in here, especially the section on custom functions and good combinations for different events (e.g weddings, sport etc). I now almost always shoot using '*' for focus, and find it much easier, especially when using Canon lenses with FTM Focus.

Still need some more practice though :)
 

Nill Toulme

New member
The Mark II manuals are actually not as complete as the original 1D manual, particularly regarding documentation of the CF's and PF's. I have occasionally found myself going back to the old 1D manual for clarification.

The advice about reading the manual through several times is well taken, and it pays to go back and read it again after using the camera for a few weeks/months and maybe even once a year or so thereafter.

I heartily second Andy's recommendation of the document he cites in the previous post. It's must reading for any 1-series user and full of good info for users of any Canon DSLR.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Richard,

I referred to an alternate manual for the Eos 1D Mark II.

Now that I have just returned to Los Angeles and here is the book:

"Magic Lantern Guides Canon Eos-1D Mark II Eos 1Ds Mark II" by Adam Christopher, $19.95 retail price, although you might well find it for less.

The book is firstly written in normal English with large enough type and has some illustrations.

I personally think it is a worthwhile purchase if things don't seem intuitive. I have only needed it a few times, but in those times, it was perfect.

Asher
 

Dennis Wood

New member
Richard Rickard said:
Too many Choices. Like Autofocus points , a little info on which one. to for say Weddings, nature. ect
and how they work in a give situation. You will not learn this in a photographic course about this camera.
Trial and error is not the way to go.
Example- Create folders How do you name one ,how many can there be in a card , how to select a file in a card to save pictures. these question are not there


Richard,

It is usually assumed that people buying 1D series cameras have had some experience in camera and DSLR handling. To that effect the manuals aren't written to explain why the camera has these featues. Autofocus point selection for example is determined by the situation, the photographer's needs for a specific shot, etc. It would be impossible for the manual to cover all of those situations.
Folder creation, naming, capacity ARE all covered in the manual however. I'm not sure what your previous experience level is but it sounds like you might have bought a bit more camera than might need.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I don't find any issue with a serious worker expanding from say a Bronica Film camera to a 1Ds II with no intermediate steps. Although much of the interface is intuitive to Canon DSLR users, for example, this is something like throwing a computer to someone who writes in longhand to use "Final Draft" for sreenwriting.

An associate or helpful salesman helps.

Still, an on-screen 1Ds II manual with hypertext explaining each concept with diagrams would be marvelous. Maybe it does exist already.

A lot of personal functions I knew about, but didn't think I needed.

When I did, I fiddled and included them in my work. Each feature I added, I can't now live without!

The best thing about the handbook, "Magic Lantern Guides Canon Eos-1D Mark II Eos 1Ds Mark II" by Adam Christopher is that the type face is large, the paper is white and so it is not a P.I.A. to read!

Any other issues, post here!

Asher
 

Ray West

New member
Assumptions have to be made, limits have to be somewhere. For example, if you buy a car, the handbook - do you even get one - does not tell you how to read a map.

The beauty of a digital camera, is it costs very little to play, to test out things, join a forum, or whatever. To produce a manual that suits everyone would probably cost more than the camera.

Another example, I can buy a scalpel, but I do not expect to be able to carry out brain surgery, nor expect a manual to be provided too explain how so to do.

I think, with photography in particular, folk expect instant success - after all, you go somewhere with an expensive camera, press the button, and come away with a perfect picture. This may happen, within the hardware limits, with a mobile phone or p&s, but not with something with more than one button to press - you got to make decisions, maybe too much like hard work. Is not an instant buy a better camera, take a better photo.

Best wishes,

Ray
 
Ray West said:
Assumptions have to be made, limits have to be somewhere. For example, if you buy a car, the handbook - do you even get one - does not tell you how to read a map.

Nor will the car manual tell you when to use the turn signals, just where the control for them is.
 
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