Members w/ Zero Posts

Off topic somewhat but Asher, what was/is the motivation for someone like yourself to establish and maintain a forum like this one? It seems like a gigantic effort and time consumer. It also does not seem like it provides a huge monetary gain unless selling ones work results. I do not mean to pry or to be sarcastic but I am just amazed at the effort that is exerted here and wonder why. Perhaps it is a passion for human communication? I do contribute now and then but mostly appreciate the expertise and wisdom provided here.

Bev

So let's get back on topic. What remedies might there be beyond deleting memberships of those who never post. Nicolas and I have the philosophy of the least rules. Lurkers are not disruptive.

There's no great lecture that I attended or delivered where more than 30% asked questions! I'd collar the bright ones and challenged them that everything presented could not have been clear or even true! They more than anyone should contribute.

Here in OPF, if you have nothing to ask, nothing to comment on that is surprising. Try to help out! Surely, at least there must be 4 pictures you have that people would enjoy seeing. Shy? Not sure if the quality is good enough? Then PM a moderator, Nicolas Claris or myself! Everyone is ready to help you participate.

Anyway, "How do we get there?" is the question! We'd really like your help on this!

Asher

Hi Asher,

This is not a lecturing situation (re. your previous example), I thought it was more like a meeting place to chat/solve problems, generate ideas, whatever. It works because of the few hundred who participate, the givers. Long term lurkers appear to contribute nothing, they do not give anything to the discussions, they just take away the results, if any (reward for no effort). They are taking up space in the room, looking over our shoulders. Maybe some are wary of posting, because they are supposed to have used their real name. If they do not speak, how do we know their thoughts? Personally, which may well be a very good thing, I very much restrict what I say here, since so many members are completely unknown.

My views on this are probably quite different than yours, but from time to time this question arises, re. number of lurkers. The question would not arise if lurkers de-lurked, or were removed. I think a number came over just after June 2006, and have not posted since. Many of the newer members post and contribute, which gives us the 'buzz'.

Speaking of which, ...... I used to keep bees, in as much as one can keep a few hundred thousand insects. Now the drones are a complete waste of the hive resources. The workers are all female, and other than mating with the queen bees, the only use for drones seems to be keeping out the draught, when the workers line them up in the hive entrance. Now, some bee keepers removed the drones, but the character of the hive then became rather morose. The hive was not 'right'. A morose hive produces less honey. Who knows the use of our lurkers.... ? ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray

For what it's worth

No one can force anyone to post. Every one has reasons for piping up and keeping quiet. Sure, we chatty folk would love it if the lurkers posted now and again to say "Hi - I lurk". But the nature of the internet is that some are intimidated, some just can't type at all (or spell) and by some private conversations I've had some people just don't feel their skills are such that they have anything to contribute. Everyone has a reason. Not all pegs fit the round holes!

Just because someone tied up a miniscule amount of space with their sign in, just maybe, they got something out of OPF - a smile for the day, an idea or some inspiration. Maybe a thread like this one will give them the impetus to post. And if not, well, it's the loss of all the others here at OPF who read and post and put their images and thoughts out there. We just won't get the answer.

All we can do is encourage. Maybe one day they will see or view something that will spark participation. If there is no financial cost to them having signed up, so what purpose will it serve by making their membership disappear?

Bev Sampson said:

Off topic somewhat but Asher, what was/is the motivation for someone like yourself to establish and maintain a forum like this one? It seems like a gigantic effort and time consumer. It also does not seem like it provides a huge monetary gain unless selling ones work results. I do not mean to pry or to be sarcastic but I am just amazed at the effort that is exerted here and wonder why. Perhaps it is a passion for human communication? I do contribute now and then but mostly appreciate the expertise and wisdom provided here.

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Nicolas, I and others felt the need for a free forum open to new ideas and challenge. We were concerned that either threads were for just gearheads (no sin in that) or else kept deleting valuable opinions or closing threads.

We thought that a forum devoted to improving the quailty of photography and empowering people to have a point of view would allow us to improve, contribute back and also shine a light on ourselves as humans. We all have to struggle with the nuts and bolts of photography, competing and then out of all this approaching excellence. That, we believe is worthwhile.

Yes, it's a lot of work and as we proceed we are learning to delegate! That's why we have a good bunch of moderators. We hope to do much more and we will. There's no money in it and if you see some, let me know, LOL!

Thanks for the kind interest. I would not refuse money! However, that's NOT why OPF is worth doing!

Asher

Back to "how do we get more people to post"? (A bit pompous of me at this point to use the word "we", but you all get my drift)

Check out this thread;
http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=34888#post34888

You might notice that Ron took the time to mention every single person who responded to his challenge, by name. This can turn into a conundrum (for the original poster, in this case, Ron) as more people add and time goes on, yet methinks it's important. It gets screwy as more posts appear, and more difficult to acknowledge each) OTOH, I suppose one might argue that acknowledging at least the earliest of posts might be incentive for the timid to give it a go, then understood that posts later might go without reply. Sort of. Maybe.

Asher does an outstanding job at this, and his replies more often than not entice the poster to get more active, as did Ron's...in my case.

I don't want to turn this post into an "about me" post, however I have only been a member on one other forum for the past 2-3 years (until I stumbled here), and the single most thing that 'turns me off" is replying to a post and being ignored (usually, but not always, by the orignal poster -slash- question....or perhaps better put, not acknowledged....even if said post was garbage, as long as it was meant well. (No offense to fellow members of said forum who are here. Trust me, I'm not referring to you).

Not the answer, of course, but hopefully food for thought.
-Greg

It is worth a lot!

Kathy Rappaport said:

...All we can do is encourage. Maybe one day they will see or view something that will spark participation. If there is no financial cost to them having signed up, so what purpose will it serve by making their membership disappear?

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Hi Kathy,

You wrote these words under the title "For what it's worth".
I think that your wisdom is worth a lot. Very well put, indeed!

Cheers,

Ray West said:

...Speaking of which, ...... I used to keep bees, in as much as one can keep a few hundred thousand insects. Now the drones are a complete waste of the hive resources. The workers are all female, and other than mating with the queen bees, the only use for drones seems to be keeping out the draught, when the workers line them up in the hive entrance. Now, some bee keepers removed the drones, but the character of the hive then became rather morose. The hive was not 'right'. A morose hive produces less honey. Who knows the use of our lurkers.... ? ;-)..

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I like the analogy Ray. And I believe that a forum without the lurkers will be a lesser place.

Personally, I don't feel like a lurker "takes away" something from me/us when they read our contributions. After all, if I wanted to keep my know-how and/or wisdom (LOL) limited to a mutual exchange group, I would not become a member of an open forum to start with.

With kindest regards,

Greg Rogers said:

....Asher does an outstanding job at this, and his replies more often than not entice the poster to get more active, as did Ron's...in my case.

I don't want to turn this post into an "about me" post, however I have only been a member on one other forum for the past 2-3 years (until I stumbled here), and the single most thing that 'turns me off" is replying to a post and being ignored (usually, but not always, by the orignal poster -slash- question....or perhaps better put, not acknowledged....even if said post was garbage, as long as it was meant well. (No offense to fellow members of said forum who are here. Trust me, I'm not referring to you).

Not the answer, of course, but hopefully food for thought.
-Greg

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Hi Greg,

Well said, I agree. It certainly whets my appetite so keep them coming please (ie the "food" for thought).

Asher does indeed a great job in this area, giving the newcomers a sense of being welcome here. But even if one is an old hand, one still yearns to get some (if any at all) response to what is posted here. After all, there always is a purpose to a post regardless of the poster, an inherent plea for reactions; unless stated otherwise explicitly. But it is the inherent nature of an open forum that sometimes one's post just doesn't get noticed (or it is not interesting enough or whatever) and thus receives no reactions. I think that we should also learn to live with this fact, although it is not easy. Believe me, I know <wink>

Cheers,
(nntr: no need to reply)

Asher Kelman said:

....We thought that a forum devoted to improving the quailty of photography and empowering people to have a point of view would allow us to improve, contribute back and also shine a light on ourselves as humans. We all have to struggle with the nuts and bolts of photography, competing and then out of all this approaching excellence. That, we believe is worthwhile...

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I know that this will sound lame, you might think that I'm sucking up to the boss. Regardless, I can't help but applaud this purpose statement. OPF may have meant many things to many people.

For me personally, OPF has instigated a feeling of urgency and awakened my interest in photography, my then long asleep lifetime hobby. It has made me strive towards improving my results. And for that alone, I am deeply indebted.

Regards,

Asher Kelman said:

Some posts moved outside the frame of OPF to show courtesy and could be seen as demeaning. That's outside of the TOS of OPF. Besides, all this was based on a misunderstanding mostly related to an incorrect URL which lead one to believe that a nice U.K. photographer working near Munich in Germany was actually another guy in Australia. This is so weird that it serves zero purpose in this thread or OPF.

We never delete Professional posts and have a great leeway on even controversial topics or images, which if hot enough move to Uptown where they are easily accomodated.

Asher

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Hi All,

For those of you who have not read this thread actively in the past 18 hours it may be a bit confusing when you come across this statement of Asher’s and you see that there are four deleted posts above. Asher does not explain further what or how this has happened. At the risk of being reprimanded, I feel that a brief explanation would be appropriate so here it comes.

Kevin has reacted to an older post in this thread by Ray. His reaction has been somewhat misinterpreted by Ray and Asher simply because they thought that Kevin was somebody else due to a typo in his personal URL. This typo made it look like he was an Australian photographer with a certain personal agenda. Knowing Kevin personally, I've jumped in to point out to this unfortunate mistake. After which Asher has decided that this whole discussion has been an unfortunate incident and decided to delete the associated posts just to prevent any possible reputational damage to the involved parties. This does not mean that neither Kevin nor Ray nor myself have thus been “censored” by Asher, not at all. Asher has also assured me that he would make the deleted posts available to anyone who’d ask for it.

Kind regards,

Cem, thanks for the explanation and support. All understood now. I've fixed up the URL, I must have been rushing when I signed up.

Well, if this is sucking up, so be it. I'm a member of the Asher Fan Club as well as the Clubs for some other folks too. Now, all this mushy stuff is bugging me so I'm going to try to sound like John Wayne for a few minutes and regain my tough guy image.

Nope, didn't work.

Rachel Foster said:

Well, if this is sucking up, so be it. I'm a member of the Asher Fan Club as well as the Clubs for some other folks too. Now, all this mushy stuff is bugging me so I'm going to try to sound like John Wayne for a few minutes and regain my tough guy image.

Nope, didn't work.

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Off topic: I've been fortunate enough to live in the same area as Asher and I have to say being a fan multiplies when you've have the good luck to meet him, and his lovely wife as well. He is one of those people who is quite genuine and without pretense. Asher, you can't delete this one!

Good point about lurkers not being disruptive. Spammers are the real threat to message boards, not lurkers and many spammers nowadays register on a forum and don't post at all for ages. Then a month or more down the road, some of them either spam the board or put links to porn sites etc in their signatures.
The upside to newbies posting at least once to introduce themselves is that you then know that they are unlikely to be spammers. I'm sure that many of us know of forums that went down the tubes when spammers ran amok on them.

Steve Saunders said:

The upside to newbies posting at least once to introduce themselves is that you then know that they are unlikely to be spammers. I'm sure that many of us know of forums that went down the tubes when spammers ran amok on them.

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True, but mods are there for the spammers - or should be. & I know just how much work being a mod is, especially on a board that's well targetted by spammers.

Went out today to shot for me it was raining igot wet shot only 10 things only 1 any good but dust bunnies only frame withem only interesting shot I'm pisted just thought id let you share my mood no real value I'm Bord no pp to do got ajob tomorrow so id better clean my sensor but Ive just killed a 6 pack do it in the morning.