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Racism is thriving in the American Midwest

Rachel Foster

New member
I came home tonight to find this. This is my lawn, my sign. Not my note.

111.jpg
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Rachel,

I came home tonight to find this. This is my lawn, my sign. Not my note.

And this an affront to the Muslim race? A whole new anthropological concept!

Or is it racist because insults a man who is roughly half Negro by making a misstatement about his religion? Boy, this stuff works in a funny way.

Suppose we said that about a guy who was roughly half Caucasian? Would that be racist, too?.

Oh, wait - it was about a guy who's roughly half-Caucasian.

I guess there are people who think jokes about Polish people are racist.

Of course, maybe I have a special sensitivity to these things because I am a Native American. That's right, I was born in Cincinnati.

Well I have to go. My favorite African-American actor, Charlize Theron, is on TV.
 

Rachel Foster

New member
I am also Native American. Buy my brand of Native American is Cherokee and Choctaw.

It's racist because Obama is assumed Muslim (read:enemy) by virtue of being Black. My neighbor down the block, also Black, has an Obama sign on his lawn as well. He did not get the little missive. I guess, being Black, he must be Muslim also.

And even if Obama WERE Muslim...SO WHAT?????
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
That bigotry is what drove people to risk everything to come to the USa in the first place!

I only want the person to be competent, educated, skilled, engaged, loyal, able to recognize and recruit valuable ideas and analysis, recognize flim-flam and flattery, resist corruption, be compassionate never lose empathy nor fall asleep on the job!

For that reason, I don't want anyone who would ask a priest, rabbi, brahmin, guru or any rainmaker for anything but non-interference, good wishes and friendly relations. There is no place for deity in politics and there's no place for politicians in houses of worship, Each corrodes the other.

So if a man or woman is qualified by the criteria I've listed, I could care less about a person's religion. Obama will make a good president as would McCain. (IMHP. it would be far better if politicians should not be allowed to refer to a religious matter or their own faith, during speeches. Even God bless America, nice sentiment, is out of place. We just have to work hard, take responsibility, not hurt anyone else and then we'll be blessed. If they want to pray, so be it. That's a private matter. I really doubt Obama knows much about Islam. Religion is not that important to him. After all, he was sleeping in that bigot's church for a decade and had no idea about his preacher's ranting anti-Americanism and Pro-Farrakhan stance! Religion for these politicians is merely to get merit points with religious constituencies.

Obama is elegant, charming and a good speaker who can stand up and impress the pants of a crowd. I have no worry of him being a Muslim. My biggest worry is that he's naive about the dangers we face and that he feels that the differences between us and those that hate us is due to misunderstandings.

McCain I think would be better, but only id he doesn't die in office!

Asher
 

Rachel Foster

New member
Asher, whether Obama or McCain is the better choice is irrelevant. It's the assumption that he is Muslim by virtue of being Black, firstly, and that Muslims are enemies of America, secondly.

What right does ANYONE have to come on MY property and deface MY political sign? What right does ANYONE have to challenge my right to free speech -- on MY property -- and my right to vote and campaign for whomever I choose?

If this person disagrees, let him/her put a McCain sign on his/her property! I'll not molest his/her rights as she/he did mine!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I am also Native American. Buy my brand of Native American is Cherokee and Choctaw.

It's racist because Obama is assumed Muslim (read:enemy) by virtue of being Black. My neighbor down the block, also Black, has an Obama sign on his lawn as well. He did not get the little missive. I guess, being Black, he must be Muslim also.

And even if Obama WERE Muslim...SO WHAT?????
The racist part of this is that blacks are proud of him and that whites will give themselves a pat on the back and free pass for centuries of abuse of blacks and other minorities who's sweat and blood helped to make this place.

Obama should be liked only because he's a good person, competent and skilled to do the job of President well. The color of his skin is not a criterion for defining a good or bad human being. However, I understand the value of man, like Obama, (sharing a superficial similarity to the descendants of abuse), rising to the highest office of the land. If it makes abused people in our debt feel better and decreases the pain meted out to them, fine, that's good. However, Obama's adoration by the press and populace is no justification for believing we have become color blind!

Asher
 

Gary Ayala

New member
... And even if Obama WERE Muslim...SO WHAT?????

Interesting remark Rachel ... I made a similar statement a few days ago ... but I'm in a blue state, California. (Here most everybody just sorta nodded ... drank some wine, dried off from the hot tub and went to the organic market and read the labels on the food before purchasing.)

It is very disrespectful to walk all over your opinion and violate your property wiith a remark so sophomoric it doesn't even deserve a reply. If that remark reflects the intelligence of the opposition ... I wouldn't worry about him/her offsetting your vote ... they probably don't have the brains to register.

Whenever McCain or Moose Palin get under my skin ... I just internet another $25 into Obama's coffers ... gotta go .... late for my yoga ...

Gary
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
O-si-yo,, Rachel,

I am also Native American. Buy my brand of Native American is Cherokee and Choctaw.

Ah yes, the Cherokee, the most civilized of the Five Civilized Tribes. (Oh, sorry, didn't mean to be racist about it.)

Carla is 1/16 DIB Cherokee (card-carrying).

It's racist because Obama is assumed Muslim (read:enemy) by virtue of being Black.

Oh, that's too subtle for me. Sorry I missed it.

I never knew that a lot of Negros were Muslim. Of course, some are Black Muslim, but that's another thing entirely.

I do remember years ago when we assumed that Italians were Roman Catholic.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
O-si-yo,, Rachel,

By the way, we have an Obama sign just like that in our front yard.

We've had political signs disappear before (during primary season), and we assumed that it was racist, since we are obvious supporters of the Democratic party (hard to come by in this lovely little town, right where the West begins) and are known to have not been born or even raised in Texas.

And it has probably even leaked out that, as Episcopalians, we support the ordination of women as priests (and even Bishops), as adopted by The Episcopal Church a number of years ago, but not honored here in the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth, where the Bishop knows that this is not what Jesus had in mind.

There are no other political signs on the block, perhaps because the Ordnung of the homeowner's association (as distributed to the homeowners) forbids any signs other than real estate sale signs. But such contractual provisions, with respect to political signs, are invalid under a Texas statute.

The HOA operative says, "Yes indeed, that is so. I guess we should revise the Regulations document."

Ka-la Tsu-la Gi-ga-ge (Carla Red Fox) says O-si-yo.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
Our neighbourhood has McCain signs all over it. When people here mention Obama they spit. He's regarded here as highly suspect and possibly in the pay of al-Quaida.
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Our neighbourhood has McCain signs all over it. When people here mention Obama they spit. He's regarded here as highly suspect and possibly in the pay of al-Quaida.
This statement is very cleverly formulated. Is this also your own opinion or are you just stating?
 

Nill Toulme

New member
Rachel I'm with Doug on this in that I don't see the inherent racism in the statement placed on your sign. Ignorance and prejudice, yes; racism, maybe but not necessarily. I do think there's a strong undercurrent of racism in the willingness of many people to be so credulous regarding ridiculous statements about Obama, i.e., consciously or unconsciously, I think many people are looking for excuses not to vote for a black man for President.

Be that as it may, I think a more apt header for your pic would have been "Ignorance is thriving in the American Midwest." And lots of other locales too, of course.

Nill
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
This statement is very cleverly formulated. Is this also your own opinion or are you just stating?

It is an opinion I keep hearing.

I try to stay out of politics. It's too much of a bloodbath. Besides, as a non-citizen I can't vote anyway so there's not really much point in having an opinion on the matter.
 

Rachel Foster

New member
O-si-yo, Doug. Do-`hi-tsu? U-s-ti go-li-ga wo-ni tsa-la-gi (accent on "little").

I think assuming Obama is Muslim because he is Black is racist. Would he be cast as Muslim if he were not?

Either way, it is ignorant and prejudiced. I resent anyone trying to limit my democratic rights due to bigotry. And it makes me sad. Although I look Euro American (and my mother is in fact half Norwegian, half Jewish) I know what racism feels like.

We are better people than this. Sometimes I despair.

(The first sentence translates as "Hello, Doug. How are you? I understand a little Cherokee.")
 

Nill Toulme

New member
Imagine an alternative universe in which Obama is the Republican and McCain the Democrat (and, if you like, go ahead and imagine McCain as the black man, and Obama the white). I wonder if the same people who now are sending, or believing, or pretending to believe, all the goofy e-mails about Obama being Muslim and the anti-Christ would instead be sending goofy e-mails about McCain being the Manchurian candidate, having been brainwashed and programmed during his extended captivity in Viet Nam. ;-)

Nill
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Rachel,

I think assuming Obama is Muslim because he is Black is racist.

Half Negro.

I sort of half agree.

But it is interesting to reflect on the definition of racism, which (as I paraphrase it) means "making an assumption about a person's character, capability, or suitability for some situation or position based on his race." It doesn't even require that the assumption is "negative", although we of course tend to limit our use of the term to that case.

Now we can make various assumptions about a person based on his race. For example, if I know a person is Asian, I may assume (perhaps unwarrantedly) that he would have certain facial characteristics. Would that be racist?

If I know a person is Negro, I will assume that he has a greater predisposition to sickle cell anemia than, say, a hypothetical "average" Caucasian. Would that be racist? Certainly doesn't seem to fit my definition.

Now, if I assume that an "average" Caucasian would likely be less effective as a basketball player than an "average" Negro, would that be racist? I think so.

But then, if I assume that a Caucasian actor would not probably be well suited to play Martin Luther King, Jr., in a movie, would that be racist?

My only point here is not to reject your outlook, which I well understand. I am just concerned about the tendency to consider any insult to a person to be racist if that person is of a race we think of as often being treated unfairly as a group. It's a semantic concern, not a societal one.

Now if we think:

1 A half-Negro person is likely a Muslim, and

2 Muslims are to be feared

then what is racist? Point 1 isn't, since being Muslim doesn't constitute a conclusion about the person's character, or fitness for a position (except of perhaps as a Christian clergyman, adn even that isn't completely clear)

Point 2 isn't, since that is an assumption based on religion, not race.

So while 1 and 2 together create an unfortunate train, it can't really be treated as racist.

Again, just a semantic outlook. I am concerned with the meanings of words, since when we speak or write, the thoughts we convey are through those meanings.

And I certainly didn't mean to pick on you. You just, innocently, gave me a "substrate" to paint my semantic diatribe onto.

(And since communicating in a language others do not know is rude, the first sentence translates as "Hello, Doug. How are you? I understand a little Cherokee.")

And much more than I! Wa do (Thank you).

Best regards,

Doug
 

Gary Ayala

New member
I'm with Rachel on this one ... I think that it is racist (as opposed to racism). Hating a person or group based upon a racial grouping.

Many black people are Muslim ... Obama is black ... therefore Obama is Muslim. That is clearly a racist remark.

Many Muslims are terrorists ... therefore Obama is a terrorist. Again, racist, creating hate using only ethnic grouping as a criteria.

As to Obama being in the pay of Al Qaeda, as he is only half black, so based upon the above assumptions, he is only half Muslim, therefore half terrorist ... So, I guess he only works for Al Qaeda part time ... (evening and weekends).

Gary
 

Rachel Foster

New member
Thank you, Doug, for engaging in this discussion. It is a difficult and necessary one.

First, though, I have to say I'm very uncomfortable with the term "Negro." Many persons of African descent find it objectionable. I am politically correct, no question. My own approach is to use terms to describe groups that those groups find most acceptable. Now, that's not to say you cannot choose whatever terminology you want to. That's up to you. I just feel a need to mention my discomfort.

I have taught classes on the psychology of racism. There are many definitions. The sociological definition requires that discriminatory attitude or behavior can only be racist if it's held/performed by those in power, i.e., the dominant group. As a psychologist I don't agree. I define it at the individual level.

There are many levels to what constitutes racism. I will just go to my own working definition, though, but noting that this leaves out a lot of the more subtle points. For me, personally, if anyone's opportunities are limited due to ethnic/racial group membership, it's racism.

Your most important point (to me) is that if everything is called racism, the concept no longer has meaning. I agree wholeheartedly. But this, to me, is racism. Perhaps I am wrong. I'm still mad enough to spit nails.

Oh, and...yes, I'm a hothead. There's nothing quite like an idealist who gets slapped in the face with bigotry. I live in an ivory tower, but I know what's outside of it. Growing up in California, the back fence of our trailer park was the Compton city limit. I know racism.

And about politics. I have long noted a tendency (in me as well as most people) to be firmly convinced our beliefs are the right one. Politics especially leads to an unwillingness to be open to other views. I wrote a poem poking a little fun at that tendency in myself. Since this is written from my perspective, it's written as a liberal. The point was to have a little fun with my own certainty that my way is the right way.

The Liberal's Lament

Debates, debates, they sure can ****
Sometimes I just don't give a ****.
Somethings I hate, and always will.
Wrong headed politics---had my fill.

Everyone should think just like me.
What a great world that would be.
I have an idea, here's what to do:
I'll rule the world, universe too.

College is free to those who can pass.
Put a huge tax on tobacco and gas.
Support education and outlaw war
If that's not enough, here is some more.

I'll finally enact the damned ERA.
Not tomorrow, it happens today.
Women guaranteed all of their rights
And then gay marriage is in my sights.

I'll get rid of special rights for the rich
Impeach all war-mongering sons of a bitch.
Feminism, civil rights, gay rights too
Empower me..that's all you must do.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, gang,

I have to follow on with an anecdote that in part explains my distaste for semantically-questionable "euphemistic" designations for races or ethnicity.

In the 1970's, I was president of an engineering technology college, part of a larger system of such schools. Under various statutes, we were required to periodically report on the demographic composition of our student body and of our faculty as well.

As we still know today, there were regular changes in the list of categories and their names. One year, the list of categories included (I may have paraphrased slightly):

  • Black or Negro
  • Asian or Pacific Islander
  • American Indian
  • Spanish surnamed
  • Other, including white or Caucasian
(Note that at that time, the ill-named category "Spanish surnamed" was included as a point on the race scale. Today, the corresponding concept is recognized as being on an orthogonal scale, that of ethnicity (a term that, at that earlier time, was considered a euphemism for "race".)

In due time, my "boss" at the system headquarters (we might think of him as the chancellor) called and asked how the gathering of the faculty demographic information was coming.

I said, "Well, not all that well. For one thing, Dean Alvarez has always thought that he was white."


Then there was the case of the new student, Jose Luis Murphy (born in New Mexico of immigrant Mexican parents, one of whose ancestors, a few generations earlier, had immigrated to Mexico from Ireland). He wanted to know if there was any chance he could be eligible for certain tuition concessions available under a government program to "minority" students, including "Spanish surnamed".

I told the financial aid director to set him up for it, pointing out that I was sure that if we had a Madrid telephone directory we would find at least one Murphy in it.

You have often seen me say, in connection with technical terminology, and exasperated with tortured rationales for ill-founded descriptions, "When all else fails, call it what it is". It's a good guideline.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Rachel Foster

New member
About terminology and political correctness: A few years ago, during a term I was teaching psych of racism, I had to laugh at myself one day. I was sorting the laundry. I found myself thinking, as I picked up each piece, "White, white, of color, white, of color..." instead of "white, color, color," etc!
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Rachel,

Thank you, Doug, for engaging in this discussion. It is a difficult and necessary one.

First, though, I have to say I'm very uncomfortable with the term "Negro." Many persons of African descent find it objectionable.

And not too long ago, most such people found "black" objectionable, and this will no doubt occur in the future as well.

And since we are all probably of "African descent", that covers a lot of people.

I understand your point. I use the term because it is the only "permanent" anthropological one for this race (I after all consider myself a "scientist", of at least that derivative of one we call an "engineer"), and also to emphasize my dissatisfaction with some of the popular "synonyms" today.

I'm reminded of the time a few years ago when a rising young conductor, born in Jamaica and then a Swiss citizen, was invited to conduct a prestigious American symphony orchestra for an important festival. In an interview on NPR, the interviewer gushed, "Maestro, how does it feel to be the first African American to conduct this great orchestra?"

He replied (and I of course paraphrase), "Well, of course I am very honored to take that podium. But there seems to be some misunderstanding here. I was born in Jamaica, not Africa, and I'm not American, but Swiss."

But of course if he had been hit by a car and taken to some local hospital, he would perhaps have been logged in as "African American". Perhaps this is a new way to attain citizenship.

Thanks for the rest of your remarks (which I won't quote here, for conciseness.)

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Rachel,


About terminology and political correctness: A few years ago, during a term I was teaching psych of racism, I had to laugh at myself one day. I was sorting the laundry. I found myself thinking, as I picked up each piece, "White, white, of color, white, of color..." instead of "white, color, color," etc!

I love it!

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Nill,

I wonder if the same people who now are sending, or believing, or pretending to believe, all the goofy e-mails about Obama being Muslim and the anti-Christ would instead be sending goofy e-mails about McCain being the Manchurian candidate, having been brainwashed and programmed during his extended captivity in Viet Nam.

It's true, it's true!

Best regards,

Doug
 

Rachel Foster

New member
Doug, we have come at a most difficult topic from opposite sides and come through it as friends. Wa-do, tso-s-da-nv-tli (my brother).
 
I wouldn't assume Obama is muslim because he is black. It would have to do more with his name than his race. which, I suppose, is just as bad.
I am guessing you don't know who put the note on your sign. I am also guessing you believe it was a white redneck republican christian. Could it have been a black or hispanic catholic, buddhist, or name your religion and political belief?
Besides if you add a ' to Obama's name you would get O'bama.. now he's a nice irish lad. :)
I do think you are right to be annoyed that someone came on your property to mess with the sign.
 

Rachel Foster

New member
I've not made any assumptions about who it is. In fact, I'm not even assuming it's a Republican as it could quite easily be a Democrat. The block writing is similar to what law enforcement officers were taught to use in report writing, but even that's non diagnostic because it's quite likely police reports are all composed on computers these days.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
HI, Gary,

I call my mailman my personperson.

"There is only one truly gender-specific job title, and that is "male nurse."

At one time, on the Dallas City Council, it was the habit of the then-mayor to address the male members as "councilman" and the female ones as "councilperson", thus partaking of the worst of both worlds.

And of course, during the height of the emergence of this silliness, many technical organizations relabeled the position of a person who makes engineering drawings as "draftsperson", missing completely the possibility of the much-better "drafter".

In Washington, D.C. (note that here I use the abbreviation rather than the postal code, which is inappropriate in narrative text), some years ago, Carmen Turner was appointed Chairman of the Washington Metropolitan Transit Authority. When she was interviewed on NPR, the interviewer said, "Ms. Turner, I'm sure you are proud to head this important public agency. But aren't you uncomfortable about the title?"

"Why would that be", asked Turner.

"Well, doesn't it sound like a position that could only be held by a man?"

Replied Turner, "Evidently not".

Best regards,

Doug
 
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