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NHB Soccer Tourney

Gary Ayala

New member
Some snaps from the NHB Soccer Tourney held at UC Irvine this weekend can be found here:

http://garyayala.smugmug.com/gallery/1854758

93064902-L.jpg


Usual disclaimer of these shots are for the parents and participants and as such I am not as discriminating with my post as I would be if the shots were purely for my pleasure (seems the parents and kids like the crummy shots equally well as the not-so-crummy shots).

Gary
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Do you have this position preset on your long lens or are you tracking with the Servo on?

or both?

Also what lens?

Asher
 

Gary Ayala

New member
Tracking with AI-Servo + pumping the focus button. This was with the Canon 70-200 2.8 ... but most on the site were taken with the Bigma (Sigma 50-500).

Bigma shot:

93065544-L.jpg
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thanks Gary,

No presetfocus button on those Sigmas? What have they done, designed them for birding?

Asher
 

Gary Ayala

New member
Asher Kelman said:
Thanks Gary,

No presetfocus button on those Sigmas? What have they done, designed them for birding?

Asher

Okay Asher... what is a "presetfocus" button? I've inspected all my L's and could not find a "presetfocus" button. Nothing on my Bigma. And nothing in the camera manual. I understand that in many cases one could/would "prefocus" on a certain spot ... say the tape at the end of a foot race ... with the hopes that someone or something would hit that prefocused spot. I've used long "baseball lenses" ... 600mm, 800mm plus in the old manual focus days which had a stick shift for quick focusing at predetermined stops ... so before the game one would dial in on the pitcher's mound and select click #1, then second base as click #2, mid center click #3 and centerfield wall as click #4 ... These lenses came with cross-hairs on top and as the action unrolled one would follow with the cross hairs and approximated focus with the stick shift ... this worked best during a day game ... lol. But this is the first I've heard of a "presetfocus button" integrated into the lens or camera. Please explain...
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
A great description by Greg Downing a Nature Photographer:

http://www.gdphotography.com/Spring_2005_Newsletter.htm

"Canon Big Lens Tip – Focus Preset:

Many users of Canon big glass (400/2.8, 300/2.8, 500/4, 600/4) don’t fully make use of all the special features of the lenses. I have been using the focus preset in a lot of cases, particularly when shooting set-ups, such as in Roma, Texas or my back yard.

The focus preset feature can be very useful when photographing birds at a fixed position – such as one or more perches. In Roma we placed some perches close for small birds while perches for larger birds were set up at a distance. Setting the focus preset to one of the perches allows you to be focused on perch 2 and snap focus back to perch 1 in an instant should a bird land there instead.

The process is simple:

Make sure you have the focus preset switch set to "ON" or "ON with beep" – There are three positions for the switch – “OFF” indicated by a line, “ON” indicated by a circle and “ON with beep” indicated by a speaker icon “(((“ - I prefer “ON with beep”– indicating the lens beeps when focus is set and achieved.
Using auto-focus, focus on the perch or place where you expect the subject to appear.
Press the focus preset button on the lens (the button with “Set” under it - if you have the beep turned on the lens should beep confirming your setting).

You have now set that focus point in the lens’ memory.
To confirm that this is working simply focus elsewhere and then twist the focus preset ring which is the large knurled ring in front of the manual focus ring on your lens (towards the large end of the lens). If you cannot find it please check your manual to be sure you have one, only the Canon "super" telephotos do. You will again hear a beep (if you have the beep function turned on) and the focus will instantly jump back to where you initially set it using the set button. Pretty slick and great for set-up perches in your back yard or any time you’re focusing on a fixed point. But here's a related trick I bet you didn’t know:

When you snap your focus to your preset point as above, and you continue to twist and hold the focus preset ring it essentially stops auto focus, locking on that preset spot, but you can then tweak the focus manually on the lens – AND, when focus is acquired (again manually because you’re still holding the preset ring), the central focus sensor should blink and you should hear a beep (this time from the camera and not the lens – if you have beep turned on) when focus is achieved (again with the central sensor only). You do not get this confirmation while using the focus stop buttons on the lens when in AI servo mode. This can be useful when the desired critical point of focus needs to be adjusted but you are in AI servo as it won’t let you. The confirmation is especially helpful if you’re not sure of your manual focusing accuracy. It takes a little practice and isn’t something I use every day, but it’s another trick to know for when you need it!"


Asher
 

Gary Ayala

New member
Okay ... got it. I don't own any Canon "Big Glass". And, yes, the Sigma 50-500 does not have any presets. (Or is it No, the Sigma doesn't have any presets?)

In either case the presets work similar to the presets on the Nikon Big Glass back in the non-auto focus days. Only dif being one was mechanical and the other electronic.

Gary
 

Nill Toulme

New member
Preset is only useful in sports when you can anticipate action at a particular point and prefocus there to come back to quickly at the critical moment — keeper in soccer, second base in baseball, etc.

"Pumping the focus button?" What's up with that?

Also Gary I really like these shots but they give me the impression of a bit too much sharpening — manifested by the "cardboard cutout" look of the subjects as they stand out from the background in what is to my eye a somewhat unnatural fashion.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
So Nil and Gary, what sharpening do you use for such a shot?

I'd use 180%, 0.4, unsharp mask then use luminosity in fader.

I also do a local sharpening at 12%, 24%, again with the luminosity fader.

Finally I blend this layer with a duplicate but unsharpened layer and use 75% to 97% of the sharpened image only. Adding back some of the original always seems to make things more real.

Asher
 

Gary Ayala

New member
Nill Toulme said:
Preset is only useful in sports when you can anticipate action at a particular point and prefocus there to come back to quickly at the critical moment — keeper in soccer, second base in baseball, etc.

"Pumping the focus button?" What's up with that?

Also Gary I really like these shots but they give me the impression of a bit too much sharpening — manifested by the "cardboard cutout" look of the subjects as they stand out from the background in what is to my eye a somewhat unnatural fashion.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

For action I like to re-acquire focus as I follow the play ... even if the present image isn't worth capturing ... so I refocus continiously or "pump the focus button". Seems to work better/faster than waiting for something interesting to emerge than focus.

I looked at the settings ... yeah a bit over. Canon, (I believe), recommends 300/.1/0, which is usually my settings ... this was 300/1/0. Guess I was in a bit of a hurry.
 

Nill Toulme

New member
OK, I see what you mean. I do similarly quite often. It puts the focus closer to where it's going to need to be when you decide to shoot, so it's quicker.

Asher you would laugh if you saw my sharpening approach. I'll confess readily that I've never had much of a grasp of the fundamentals of sharpening, any more than I do of curves. They're both on my to-learn-someday list.

For my web images (what you see me posting here) pretty much all I've ever done is convert the RAW file in C1 with no sharpening and then let BreezeBrowser Pro apply more or less its default USM in producing the web gallery jpg's. I have tweaked those settings slightly, but only slightly.

For printing, I used to use PK Sharpener religiously, both Capture Sharpening and Output Sharpening. But then I got Qimage. Now all I do in virtually all cases is let C1 apply its mild default USM on the conversion, then let Qimage do the rest for the print. I did turn down the default setting in Qimage one notch. This gives me what I consider to be a very natural looking result at almost any print size, with essentially no effort.

But then again, like I said, I really don't know what the heck I'm doing.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Nil,

Sounds like you are doing very well! PK sharpening is way up there and Qimage knows how to print!

Asher
 

Aaron Strasburg

New member
Bigma Focus Accuracy?

I like the Bigma name. Very appropriate for that lens....

How do you find the focus accuracy? I shot a couple of soccer games for a friend of the family on Saturday and had a tremendous number of times where the camera/lens wanted to back focus. Sometimes I could get it to refocus by "pumping the focus button" but there were times I had to find another target entirely.

This is with an old Sigma consumer-level 70-300/4-5.6 APO on my 20D (I don't shoot enough sports to justify more serious glass). This lens is slow to focus, but that wasn't the problem here. Locked on the center focus point, so it wasn't choosing another point.

Very irritating and not the first time with this lens or with another Sigma (28-70/2.8). Very strange. Anyone seen similar issues?

I think I'll have to borrow a 300/2.8L IS from a buddy at work. Then I can see if it's a Canon vs Sigma thing. If I can hold the damned thing up long enough.

Aaron
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I don't think it is fair, Aaron to a Sigma Zoom to teast it against the 300 2.8L IS. The latter is one of the fines lenses built.

The Zoom should be compared to other practical lenses such as the 100-400 Canon push pull zoom.

The prices and intended functions are more closely related.

That being said, just because Gary uses the "Bigma", is, IMHO, already a pretty good endorsement. If you check his galleries he is a very experienced, artistic and choosy photographer and I doubt he would bother to carry around a big heavy object that didn't work as expected.

Part of the problems people have is technique in using the lens. I have heard people "testing a number of these just to get a good copy". So certainy test the lens immediately on buying it!

Asher
 

Aaron Strasburg

New member
Asher Kelman said:
I don't think it is fair, Aaron to a Sigma Zoom to teast it against the 300 2.8L IS. The latter is one of the fines lenses built.

The Zoom should be compared to other practical lenses such as the 100-400 Canon push pull zoom.

The prices and intended functions are more closely related.

No argument there. I already know the limitations of my Sigma. It's very slow to focus and quite soft wide open, particularly at the long end. And comparing an f/2.8 lens against an f/5.6 lens as far as autofocus performance is concerned is also a fools errand. Consider that a poorly executed attempt at humor.

A more valid test would be against a Canon consumer zoom. They just happen to have a newly updated 70-300/4-5.6. It has IS, but that's not relevant. Even having USM (I don't recall if that lens does) shouldn't matter, as I'm concerned not with focus speed but focus accuracy. Perhaps there's an issue with Sigma's reverse-engineering. Unfortunately I don't know anyone who has such a lens for me to check.

The fact that I have similar issues with my Sigma 28-70/2.8 suggests a Sigma problem or a problem with my camera. I have to separate the two to get to the bottom of this, hence my question about other's experiences with Sigma lenses on Canon bodies.

What I could test with a 300/2.8L is if there's an issue with my camera. The most likely cause that comes to mind is a misalignment between the AF target in the viewfinder and the actual sensor. That would explain a lot, as most of the out of focus images were actually focused on a more distant subject (a few were not, probably issues with focus speed). I'll have to see if I can develop a test for that. Shouldn't be too difficult.

That being said, just because Gary uses the "Bigma", is, IMHO, already a pretty good endorsement. If you check his galleries he is a very experienced, artistic and choosy photographer and I doubt he would bother to carry around a big heavy object that didn't work as expected.

Agreed. That lens is still not exactly cheap, so I'm sure Gary wouldn't put up with the problems I'm having. It's also 1/3 stop slower at the long end, which should make focus an even bigger problem.

Part of the problems people have is technique in using the lens. I have heard people "testing a number of these just to get a good copy". So certainy test the lens immediately on buying it!

I don't recall these focus issues with the film body for which this lens was originally purchased, but that may also be due to the fact that I haven't shot a frame of film in several years. Given that my 70-300 lens is over ten years old I was pleased that Sigma re-chipped it for free. I've been pleased with the lens given its price point. I just need to figure out the source of my problems before I go insane. Shooting sports with the world's slowest focusing lens isn't easy, but when it regularly picks the wrong focus point it's downright frustrating. It would be even more irritating to buy a $1700 70-200/2.8L IS and have the same problem.

This has really turned into a lens discussion and this is the wrong forum for that topic, so let me close with this: nice shots. After a few hours over the weekend trying my hand I am reminded how much practice goes into doing sports photography (or any other type, for that matter) well.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Aaron,

Your quest is entirely on topic. That's the benefit of Gary's post. It allows the related discussion to occur! Go to your camera store and put on an L lens and get them to let you test it into the street. A dozen shots and you will know if anything is likely wrong woth your camera!

Asher
 
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