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Old August 18th, 2017, 12:26 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 35,164

Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post

it could be helpful for your understanding to read the original release of the US Labor Department and then rethink and correct what you wrote above. The rest-rooms thing was a minor issue compared to the rest.

Best regards,

Yes, the behaviors are broader and don't fit in with what we expect. I agree with you that this is unacceptable, but it is really practically the norm. Discrimination against different races or women in hiring is "reasonable" from the point of view of the employers.

In the first place, Hispanics are preferred as they are uniquely super reliable, work hard, are imaginitive and have good family values. They don't commonly express hostile attitudes to their supervisors. However, Blacks have a history of knowing and expecting their hard-won civil rights. They want and expect to be respected as part of the deal and are, on the ehole, not as compliant. Just a factof the work place.

Here in California in steel works, either they employ only Hispanics, (plus a few White exconvicts, "to give them a new start in life, (at lower wages)), or they mostly hire Blacks! That's the "happenings" that I obbserve in the, albeit limited, sample of work places, I visit. Same with roofs, the workers are hispanic. Hiring an Asian would mean getting ideas and opinions that one might not want. The employer just wants the job done.

Now the reported and offensive rudeness is likely the result of lack of education of a section of the supervisory level at B&H. Although many go to Yeshiva University and are highly ediucated, a significant faction grows up with only the equivalent of reading and studying the Koran every day, keeping strict dietary laws, the sanctity of the Sabbath and praying 3 times a day. Excpet all this is centered around the Torah, Mishna, (oral law) and Gemorah, (more advanced oral law collection of discussions debates and proofs).

At least a few of the young men in supervisory positions
  • have zero experience of mixing with women,
  • do not play sports,
  • are not schooled in history or sociology
that could give them a broader perspective.

These "semi bosses" are essentiually village folk from 17th Century Poland transplanted to the USA and in their own teflon coated universe of religious imperatives:
  • The timetable for the next prayers
  • Charity to orphanages, hospitals and schools
  • Time for daily study of religious texts
  • Visiting the sick
  • Ensuring kosher food is strictly in accordance with their rigid interpetation of Jewish dietary laws.
(When I was in Zimbabwe, (then the British Crown Colony of Rhodesia), if a white could count to 20, he could superviize approximately that number of Native African workers, digging ditches or fixing oads or fences. If one could kick all the tires of one's car and know they were not short of air, then a white doctor got his driver's license. That's true! At a cocktail party, with native Africans serving delicacies form silver plates, whites would say to each other that one couldnt actually have blacks in ones house, even if educated as the place would smell. They were blind to the fact that there were already blacks in their life, raising their children and serving their food!, That's how we whites have deluded ourselves into thinking how more "civilized we are).

Back here in the USA, the court rulings will force them move into the 20th Century, albeit fighting and kicking. As to insults, yes that's possible as they are New Yorkers and they are known for being very rude!

However, being "New York rude" or dismissive in Yiddish, (which the workers get to understand), brings resentment and they may as well hire blacks who already know how to stand up for themsleves and the employers wont so foolishly assume that they can be disrespectful and get away with it.

Asians? These folk are, like Jews themselves, far too educated to accept dead end "entry jobs". I dont blame them. But not hiuring women is quite "reasonable" for obsessional conservative isolated religious men, who are convinced and fear that women are not only a temptation but also at unkown times, (related to their periods) are "unclean". Anyway, hiring mostly men, reduced the risk of incidents of sexual harassment.

You may be taken aback by my generilizations of the character and social properties of racial or ethnic group, but this is not a scientific precess. Just the intuition anf "judgment" of folk who want to run their businesses smoothly with the least disruptions.

The B&H staff will get the retraining they sorely need and eventually they will behave. A fine of $3.2 million, (although IMHO excessive), is quite persuasive. The courts were smart to insist on outside consultants to force the retraining of attitudes and practices.

However, I myself would wnat to imploy Hispanic males as it makes business sense, as much as buying well made goods from China at half the price of those from elsewhere. In the machine-repairing industry, Chinese parts are sought after, as they are far less expensive and then remachined to US standards. Isn't that like hiring the folk with the attitudes and complaince and work ethic that best fits one's needs?

Meanwhile, companies that are NOT Federal Suppliers, like all the steel fabricatioes I work with and the roofers, can continue their de facto discrimination, unabated.

Still, B&H is otherwise one of the most honest, ethical and wonderful companies in the USA.....just partly locked in the 17th Century, as if it was some Catholic monastery with monks working and praying all day to celebrate God's wonders without the distraction of women or the opinions of free thinkers!

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