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  #1  
Old July 13th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Phil Fernandez Phil Fernandez is offline
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Default Beauty - Retouching

I am still struggling in doing beauty retouching. Would like to get feedbacks from veterans here.
thank you


Last edited by Phil Fernandez; July 13th, 2011 at 06:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old July 13th, 2011, 01:51 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Phil,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fernandez View Post
I am still struggling in doing beauty retouching. Would like to get feedbacks from veterans here.
thank you


Pretty model, nice shot.

I myself don't care, in general glamor work, for eye catchlights that look like a photographer in a white shirt with a softbox overhead.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #3  
Old July 13th, 2011, 02:15 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Phil,

Retouching is such an important topic. It's used in many different circumstances with a wide arrange of needs and purposes. So, to me, at least, it's important to know the end use of the picture and then see the before and after. I'm not sure how to use the vBulletin syntax to get a mouse over switch, to be able to see, "before & "after" version.

But you can post smaller sizes, side by side.

Asher
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  #4  
Old July 13th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Phil Fernandez Phil Fernandez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Phil,

Retouching is such an important topic. It's used in many different circumstances with a wide arrange of needs and purposes. So, to me, at least, it's important to know the end use of the picture and then see the before and after. I'm not sure how to use the vBulletin syntax to get a mouse over switch, to be able to see, "before & "after" version.

But you can post smaller sizes, side by side.

Asher
done... changed the pic.
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  #5  
Old July 13th, 2011, 10:23 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Phil,

Good job, now tell what the end result is this for? Is this for a head shot, a magazine, your portfolio and is there a time limit for delivery?

I'll try to give attention tomorrow. Meanwhile the impression is highly agreeable, but I did find that the original had a nice dramatic shadow beneath her gloved left hand and that now is lost. I am puzzled as to the oblique fine line beneath her lower lids. Is it drawn in by the eye MUA or what?

Not knowing how the picture is to be used and the demands of that makes it difficult to go further. The idea, to me at least, is to proceed towards the photographer's goal. So that must be specified. Imagine, how could Annie Leibovitz get her retouchers to complete her own unique vision?

Asher
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  #6  
Old July 14th, 2011, 10:13 AM
Phil Fernandez Phil Fernandez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Phil,

Good job, now tell what the end result is this for? Is this for a head shot, a magazine, your portfolio and is there a time limit for delivery?

I'll try to give attention tomorrow. Meanwhile the impression is highly agreeable, but I did find that the original had a nice dramatic shadow beneath her gloved left hand and that now is lost. I am puzzled as to the oblique fine line beneath her lower lids. Is it drawn in by the eye MUA or what?

Not knowing how the picture is to be used and the demands of that makes it difficult to go further. The idea, to me at least, is to proceed towards the photographer's goal. So that must be specified. Imagine, how could Annie Leibovitz get her retouchers to complete her own unique vision?

Asher
no hurries.
it's for portfolio use for me as a photographer/retoucher
and for the MUA and model too
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  #7  
Old July 14th, 2011, 10:21 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fernandez View Post
This is generally nicely done, although I prefer a bit more skin features myself (but if you want to show your talent at retouching, this is probably better).
You forgot to retouch the nails on her right hand.
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  #8  
Old July 14th, 2011, 01:41 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fernandez View Post
I am still struggling in doing beauty retouching. Would like to get feedbacks from veterans here.
thank you

Phil, straight off you have done a splendid job and you have all it takes to produce excellent retouching that other photographers would be happy with too. So with that in mind, I will attempt to discover those features which, by addressing would give your work an extra edge.

Jerome already pointed out that the finger nails need attention. The shape of all should be like the pinkie on the right, with a curved edge and all the same hue, unless they are clearly to be different and then they have to be clearly very different, like pink and burgundy.

The rouge of the left and right cheeks do not match. The left is too close to the nose and mouth. Also the cheek bones are as important as the lips and could be emphasized.

Look for continuity of skin texture. The cheek skin is now pretty much devoid yet above the eyes sharpening has enhanced it. Here the magic shape and shading and hies are more important that texture which without a balance in the cheeks might be too much.

The lips are dried and could benefit from some smoothing, but not puffing like she visited a BH silicon office!

The hair coming down on her left forehead has a large gap. Also there are a few haphazard hairs doing their own things and distracting. If there was some wind or movement effect then this would only work if there was 100 times more of this disorder. I'd prefer this to be perfect and filled. The profile of the hair edge on her left is likewise not strong and generous. That too can be nuanced for better effect.

As it is, the picture if fine for her portfolio and would get her jobs but for retouching, I'd dial back the skin smoothing a tad and concentrate on shading. BTW, you handled the very tough job of removing the shadow on her left cheek. I'm impressed, although I really liked its dramatic effect working with her left hand and black glove!

One final nit. The lower edge of her two incisor teeth are irregular. Could benefit from a look there.

I'm lad you're willing to share here. That shows a lot of sporting trust for a skilled worker!

Asher
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  #9  
Old July 14th, 2011, 03:16 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Jerome already pointed out that the finger nails need attention. The shape of all should be like the pinkie on the right
Not quite. The root of that nail has a dent.

Quote:
The rouge of the left and right cheeks do not match. The left is too close to the nose and mouth. Also the cheek bones are as important as the lips and could be emphasized.

Look for continuity of skin texture. The cheek skin is now pretty much devoid yet above the eyes sharpening has enhanced it.
This is going to be difficult, because the reason why the rouge is uneven and the chin smooth is the light. If you are going to that level of edit, you might as well correct her jaw bones, which look uneven and relatively broad (due to perspective).
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  #10  
Old July 14th, 2011, 05:10 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Not quite. The root of that nail has a dent.
I meant the index finger on her right is the one to copy. I was considering both the color of the nails and the shape at the distal ends. While the index is nicely curved, the other's a more flat. I missed that linear ridge on the right ring finger nail. Smart eyes you have!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
This is going to be difficult, because the reason why the rouge is uneven and the chin smooth is the light.
Look at the lower medial extent of the rouge on the left versus the right. Irrespective of lighting, here left side has more extensive rouge, even counting for the angle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
If you are going to that level of edit, you might as well correct her jaw bones, which look uneven and relatively broad (due to perspective).
That's a separate matter and always an option. Part of the issue with a lot of smoothing is that we lose the cues for the dimensionality of the cheekbones. That's where artistic shading helps.

The bones can be sometimes be fixed quite well with Portrait Professional, unless of course one is averse to such programs. One can control the extent of changes quite well.

Asher
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  #11  
Old July 14th, 2011, 05:53 PM
Phil Fernandez Phil Fernandez is offline
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thank you guys for the suggestions. I will try to address it.

....regarding the jaw bone alteration suggestion... would that be wrong to do it since this image is for the model too?
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  #12  
Old July 14th, 2011, 05:58 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Phil,

it all depends how subtle changes are. when it's right, she'll just be flattered and know where to send her friends to get the best value for money!

Asher
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  #13  
Old July 14th, 2011, 08:12 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fernandez View Post
I am still struggling in doing beauty retouching. Would like to get feedbacks from veterans here.
thank you


Hi Phil,

This is my modest attempt for the dramatic version, keeping the shadow, without addressing the fingernails or teeth. Yes, I could do more on the hair, but the drama of your shadow is there. I used Portrait Professional and CS5 from your before. This is not meant to be better, rather my argument for your original drama which I like.

Asher
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  #14  
Old July 14th, 2011, 08:18 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher, Phil,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
The hand and finger shadows on the left cheek are realistic but not at all handsome in their current state.

I'm still not enjoying the BTS story in the eye catchlights.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #15  
Old July 15th, 2011, 01:28 AM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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I usually play a game on retouching that is also a sort of memory game :) I look at the picture in one minute and try to find out all the issues.
The issues are minor IMHO

My point of view on this:

Quickly and in addition of the nails, teeth and dry lips...

I'd correct:
Match a bit better the nail colour and the lipstick colour. Usually I don't see that much difference in the portraits I'm retouching to find it odd now.

As if it's for the model, I wouldn't eliminate all the moles, at least the one near the eye.
The lower lip need a bit of plumping (with dodge and burn)

I'd correct the highlight on the cheek, in order to match the texture with the rest of the face. There is a small issue here on the sharpness of the pores on the right hand cheek (i'm not sure how do you all see this one, you photographers), to me the left pores must be sharper than the right ones.

I'm Ok with the shadow being here.
The whites of the eyes are too yellow to me (at least at the corner) and I'd retouch, a bit, the veins.
I'd soften the knuckles a tad.
I'd straighten -a bit - the hair and even the lighting on these with D&B.
I'd add some eyelash at the bottom, particularly, on the left.
There a bit of redness/shadow on the cheek near the nose (left side)
Just last one thing, as you "soften" the skin, I think you forgot the inside of the nose, and it make me thing she got hair from her nose, like grand dad. :)

That doesn't mean that I'd be able to do all that efficiently. These are just things that comes to my mind...

in overall you did a very good job.
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  #16  
Old July 15th, 2011, 05:17 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrine Bascouert View Post
I usually play a game on retouching that is also a sort of memory game :) I look at the picture in one minute and try to find out all the issues.
The issues are minor IMHO

My point of view on this:

Quickly and in addition of the nails, teeth and dry lips...

I'd correct:
Match a bit better the nail colour and the lipstick colour. Usually I don't see that much difference in the portraits I'm retouching to find it odd now.

As if it's for the model, I wouldn't eliminate all the moles, at least the one near the eye.
The lower lip need a bit of plumping (with dodge and burn)

I'd correct the highlight on the cheek, in order to match the texture with the rest of the face. There is a small issue here on the sharpness of the pores on the right hand cheek (i'm not sure how do you all see this one, you photographers), to me the left pores must be sharper than the right ones.

I'm Ok with the shadow being here.
The whites of the eyes are too yellow to me (at least at the corner) and I'd retouch, a bit, the veins.
I'd soften the knuckles a tad.
I'd straighten -a bit - the hair and even the lighting on these with D&B.
I'd add some eyelash at the bottom, particularly, on the left.
There a bit of redness/shadow on the cheek near the nose (left side)
Just last one thing, as you "soften" the skin, I think you forgot the inside of the nose, and it make me thing she got hair from her nose, like grand dad. :)

That doesn't mean that I'd be able to do all that efficiently. These are just things that comes to my mind...

in overall you did a very good job.
I was waiting for this post :)
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  #17  
Old July 15th, 2011, 05:39 AM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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in English, The inside of the nose is called the nostrils.
Sandrine: C-, you did not pass your GCSE! See you next year.

If you have to correct all the grammatical errors there, I think you'll get me back to where I once belonged (get back Jojo, go home).

Sorry for slaughtering English.
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  #18  
Old July 15th, 2011, 09:14 AM
Phil Fernandez Phil Fernandez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrine Bascouert View Post
I usually play a game on retouching that is also a sort of memory game :) I look at the picture in one minute and try to find out all the issues.
The issues are minor IMHO

My point of view on this:

Quickly and in addition of the nails, teeth and dry lips...

I'd correct:
Match a bit better the nail colour and the lipstick colour. Usually I don't see that much difference in the portraits I'm retouching to find it odd now.

As if it's for the model, I wouldn't eliminate all the moles, at least the one near the eye.
The lower lip need a bit of plumping (with dodge and burn)

I'd correct the highlight on the cheek, in order to match the texture with the rest of the face. There is a small issue here on the sharpness of the pores on the right hand cheek (i'm not sure how do you all see this one, you photographers), to me the left pores must be sharper than the right ones.

I'm Ok with the shadow being here.
The whites of the eyes are too yellow to me (at least at the corner) and I'd retouch, a bit, the veins.
I'd soften the knuckles a tad.
I'd straighten -a bit - the hair and even the lighting on these with D&B.
I'd add some eyelash at the bottom, particularly, on the left.
There a bit of redness/shadow on the cheek near the nose (left side)
Just last one thing, as you "soften" the skin, I think you forgot the inside of the nose, and it make me thing she got hair from her nose, like grand dad. :)

That doesn't mean that I'd be able to do all that efficiently. These are just things that comes to my mind...

in overall you did a very good job.
thank you Sandrine.... really appreciate.
Man, I cannot see all those things you mentioned. Just goes to show how little I know about retouching. My eyes are not trained to see all those items you just pointed out.... will try to be aware next time.

Thinking of calibrating my laptop too.... I use a DELL 17"laptop.
Suggestions on monitor calibration software? something does the job and not too pricey?
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  #19  
Old July 16th, 2011, 12:03 PM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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Asher:



I like very much the tone you added on the image, the evening of lighting, also the lips are quite well softened. The only thing is that, to me, you lost most of the texture, and it can be OK in the sense of making it "soft focus", I think it looks too much "perfect" now, a bit hairspayed... How did you proceed?



The gap in the hair wasn't bothering me that much, and in addition hair is such a pain to work on I wouldn't blame anyone. Filling that gap tend to make it feel like 1969 haircut (this is exaggeration of course).

I really prefer to see it with the shadow, but there is a sort of stain on yours, what it it? The thing is the way you adjust the lighting makes the shadow fits better.
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  #20  
Old July 16th, 2011, 05:53 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrine Bascouert View Post
Asher:



I like very much the tone you added on the image, the evening of lighting, also the lips are quite well softened. The only thing is that, to me, you lost most of the texture, and it can be OK in the sense of making it "soft focus", I think it looks too much "perfect" now, a bit hairspayed... How did you proceed?

Well, Sandrine,

Hair should be right when making the picture. I also believe that in glamor that folk want, (at the very lest, approaching) what they might see in Vogue and the lke, and not what they can see in the mirror for free!

Since I did say the hair should have no untidy gaps unless there's wind of course or some exercise, it's good to show, roughly, how it might be done.

What is the stain you refer too?

No big deal in the process. I just use Portrait Professional and then complete in CS5 and also with Portraiture plug in.

BTW, I never use this for my own pictures. Well, I admit, there was one, just one where I had to rebuild the complexion to replace an entire Acne breakout. For my own pictures, I print with just routine PS adjustments. However, I do try out each new version these software plugins just to see what is possible.

Asher
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  #21  
Old July 17th, 2011, 02:24 AM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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I was "suspecting" portrait professional. :)

As for the stain, viewing it closely, I think it's more a JPEG artefact, not sure.



I agree for the fact that these things might be perfect at first, but, how would we live, then :)
It's just that I personnaly don't like starch ironed hair and clothes, I prefer it natural.
Sometimes in the shots I'm retouching it's more wild than natural tough.


courtesy Mayfield Curtis


It's JUST a test on reshaping the hair, nothing finished. It's tedious I tell you...
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  #22  
Old July 18th, 2011, 02:07 PM
Phil Fernandez Phil Fernandez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrine Bascouert View Post
I was "suspecting" portrait professional. :)

As for the stain, viewing it closely, I think it's more a JPEG artefact, not sure.



I agree for the fact that these things might be perfect at first, but, how would we live, then :)
It's just that I personnaly don't like starch ironed hair and clothes, I prefer it natural.
Sometimes in the shots I'm retouching it's more wild than natural tough.


courtesy Mayfield Curtis

It's JUST a test on reshaping the hair, nothing finished. It's tedious I tell you...


I bet... I hate fixing hair.... I suck in masking them too
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  #23  
Old July 25th, 2011, 01:30 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Excellent start on the hair. I say start because she may benefit some bun or other flourish or ribbon on the top. Watch the texture of the nose. Too little and it appears out of place and flat.

asher
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