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  #1  
Old March 1st, 2012, 11:47 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Default 5D Mark III At Last finer AF and weatherproofed!

Well we've waited a long time and the wonderful 5DII was getting behind the times in AF. Even the Olympus DSLR was waterproofed years ago. At last these features are set to arrive in the new 5D III. It seems to be, according to Preview in DPreview, a full frame version of the 7D, weatherproofed with the 60 point AF of the 1Dx as well as abilities to do in camera HDR and similar multi exposure tricks.



So is this good enough or are you considering switching back to Nikon once more? Given the superiority of the Nikon 14-24mm wide angle zoom and the Nikon's 36 MP sensor, I'd be suspicious that more than a few folk are checking out Nikon prices and resale value of their Canon lenses! Think about uncompressed HD video output in the Nikon as just a sweetener! The Nikon is also some $500 cheaper!

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  #2  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 02:51 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
as well as abilities to do in camera HDR and similar multi exposure tricks.
The Pentax 645D has also an in camera HDR but it delivers jpeg only, not raw!
I wonder if that's the same with the 1Dx…
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  #3  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 04:16 AM
Tom Robbins Tom Robbins is offline
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I read recently that the Japan earthquake and tsunami delayed the MKIII by about a year. At any rate, the less than incredible improvements of the MKIII over the MII, plus the increase in price, will have me standing pat with my old 5DMKII for the time being.

If not for my extensive collection of Canon lenses, I could be tempted to switch to Nikon if suddenly smitten by an urge to upgrade to the latest technology and wide lens capability. Are you thinking of making the switch, Asher?
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  #4  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 04:44 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Robbins View Post
I read recently that the Japan earthquake and tsunami delayed the MKIII by about a year. At any rate, the less than incredible improvements of the MKIII over the MII, plus the increase in price, will have me standing pat with my old 5DMKII for the time being.

If not for my extensive collection of Canon lenses, I could be tempted to switch to Nikon if suddenly smitten by an urge to upgrade to the latest technology and wide lens capability. Are you thinking of making the switch, Asher?
I, too, won't be upgrading from my Mk II. Not because I am underwhelmed by the improvements but because I already have an almost perfect product in my hands (which I will write off properly before exchanging it) . This upgrade is about taking an already very good camera (Mk II) and perfecting/polishing it. Yes, the improvements may not be quantum leaps but that does not mean they are not good either. All together, the Mk III seems like a very balanced and capable camera. Let's wait and see what the real life performance of the sensor will be like. If it delivers an extra EV or more in DR and less noise (due to the Digic 5+ and the new sensor design), then I can see a good reason for the wedding photographers to upgrade to it. But it is early days yet....
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  #5  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 05:45 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil View Post
I, too, won't be upgrading from my Mk II. Not because I am underwhelmed by the improvements but because I already have an almost perfect product in my hands (which I will write off properly before exchanging it) . This upgrade is about taking an already very good camera (Mk II) and perfecting/polishing it. Yes, the improvements may not be quantum leaps but that does not mean they are not good either. All together, the Mk III seems like a very balanced and capable camera. Let's wait and see what the real life performance of the sensor will be like. If it delivers an extra EV or more in DR and less noise (due to the Digic 5+ and the new sensor design), then I can see a good reason for the wedding photographers to upgrade to it. But it is early days yet....
Looking at the JPGs online it looks like they have destroyed the sensor (although that could just be the treatment) - the high ISO performance looks all smooth and that for me is frankly minging - I love the banding on 5d mark 2 (i do mean that) and will pick up another couple of second hand bodies cheep as soon as the herd trades up ! so when this one dies I will always have that sensor...

I do want to check out the raws at high iso - but on the 1X
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  #6  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 05:49 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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The Pentax 645D has also an in camera HDR but it delivers jpeg only, not raw!
I wonder if that's the same with the 1Dx…
Hi Nicolas,

I think it is only for out of camera JPEGs, but we'll have to wait and see.

Of course one could shoot Raw + Jpeg, and use the JPEG as a (luminosity) blending layer and see if that helps. When used for that purpose, one could produce a low(er) contrast JPEG to cover a larger dynamic range, and tonemap it in postprocessing for it's layer blending role. Not ideal, but perhaps useable.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #7  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 09:43 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Am I the only one to be puzzled by the claims of "weather resistance" of cameras?

I mean: when was the last time one of your cameras failed because it got wet? As far as I know, cameras have always have some level of weather resistance. In the 80s it was possible to ruin them with salted sea spray, but they would already resist a light shower at the time. It seems to me that at the end of the 90s, cameras were fairly well protected against the elements and that things have not degraded since.

Besides, the claims are vague and bear no warranty: if your 5D fails because of water, don't expect Canon to fix it for free. Canon makes no reference to a standardized level of resistance either (e.g ipx rating).

By the way: none of these camera is waterproof. If you want to dive with a camera or even if you risk a quick drop into water, you'll need something else.
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  #8  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 09:49 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Am I the only one to be puzzled by the claims of "weather resistance" of cameras?

I mean: when was the last time one of your cameras failed because it got wet? As far as I know, cameras have always have some level of weather resistance. In the 80s it was possible to ruin them with salted sea spray, but they would already resist a light shower at the time. It seems to me that at the end of the 90s, cameras were fairly well protected against the elements and that things have not degraded since.

Besides, the claims are vague and bear no warranty: if your 5D fails because of water, don't expect Canon to fix it for free. Canon makes no reference to a standardized level of resistance either (e.g ipx rating).

By the way: none of these camera is waterproof. If you want to dive with a camera or even if you risk a quick drop into water, you'll need something else.
Georg Baumann when he frequent OPF, often told of showering with his Olympus, lens and all to remove salt from sea spray! Now that's waterproof enough for me. Photographing in the rain is something I like as the road gets reflective.

Asher
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  #9  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 09:50 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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So is this good enough or are you considering switching back to Nikon once more? Given the superiority of the Nikon 14-24mm wide angle zoom and the Nikon's 36 MP sensor, I'd be suspicious that more than a few folk are checking out Nikon prices and resale value of their Canon lenses! Think about uncompressed HD video output in the Nikon as just a sweetener! The Nikon is also some $500 cheaper!
Word is that the Nikon 14-24 already showed some of its limits on the D3x sensor, so I would advise to wait and see what real results one gets with the D800 before of a switch. Not that the 14-24 is not a great lens, mind you: all lenses have limits.

And, since you seem to only consider that a switch can be made between Canon and Nikon in the text above, I would like to remind you that there is a third manufacturer of full frame cameras on the market.
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  #10  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 09:53 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Georg Baumann when he frequent OPF, often told of showering with his Olympus, lens and all to remove salt from sea spray! Now that's waterproof enough for me.
Indeed that is waterproof enough for most users. Would you do that with your camera, considering that the manufacturer gives no warranty to their claims?

Quote:
Photographing in the rain is something I like as the road gets reflective.
I would think that all cameras resist to a light shower. And when it is raining cats and dogs (love that English expression...), you don't see enough to photograph anyway.
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  #11  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:03 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Looking at the JPGs online it looks like they have destroyed the sensor (although that could just be the treatment) - the high ISO performance looks all smooth and that for me is frankly minging - I love the banding on 5d mark 2 (i do mean that) and will pick up another couple of second hand bodies cheep as soon as the herd trades up ! so when this one dies I will always have that sensor...

I do want to check out the raws at high iso - but on the 1X
Mark,

All the samples posted on the web right now are jpg files out of the camera whereby standard noise reduction has been applied. In other words, it is non information. We shall only know the truth when the raw files become widely available (along with the raw converters which can read them) and scientific test results have been published (such as the DxOMark).
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  #12  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:05 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
...I would think that all cameras resist to a light shower. And when it is raining cats and dogs (love that English expression...), you don't see enough to photograph anyway.
Indeed. Or you could use one of these rainsleeves.
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  #13  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:14 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi Nicolas,

I think it is only for out of camera JPEGs, but we'll have to wait and see.

Of course one could shoot Raw + Jpeg, and use the JPEG as a (luminosity) blending layer and see if that helps. When used for that purpose, one could produce a low(er) contrast JPEG to cover a larger dynamic range, and tonemap it in postprocessing for it's layer blending role. Not ideal, but perhaps useable.

Cheers,
Bart
BTW, I don't have the illusion that the in-camera HDR will be as good as the dedicated software packages such as SNS-HDR. Just take a look at the examples posted on Canon Japan's website.
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  #14  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:16 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil View Post
I, too, won't be upgrading from my Mk II. Not because I am underwhelmed by the improvements but because I already have an almost perfect product in my hands (which I will write off properly before exchanging it) . This upgrade is about taking an already very good camera (Mk II) and perfecting/polishing it. Yes, the improvements may not be quantum leaps but that does not mean they are not good either. All together, the Mk III seems like a very balanced and capable camera. Let's wait and see what the real life performance of the sensor will be like. If it delivers an extra EV or more in DR and less noise (due to the Digic 5+ and the new sensor design), then I can see a good reason for the wedding photographers to upgrade to it. But it is early days yet....
Cem,

Yes, a substantial increase in DR would be worthwhile. I thought that my serious professional use of the camera outside my art and fun shots was behind me.

My interest in wall-sized prints led me to giant film cameras. So resolving DR issues simply means controlling the ambient or studio light. That's doable when shooting in planned sets with scrims, reflectors and lights. Well I thought that was that and I my 5DII would cover my needs.

But now I've just been laded an incredible opportunity in a highly anticipated and wonderful new major art project in LA. I've been asked to artistically photograph and document everything and once again the value of digital photography moves ahead of film for its immediacy. So I would the new Nikon 800D together with the 14-24mm zoom best either the 5DII or 5DIII with my 24mm T/S II, which I am now using so much.

It's easy to rationalize getting the latest and the best!

Nah! I made pretty good pictures last year with my 5DII, 5D, DII and my clutch of Canon L glass! So what limits my work. Just me!!!

Asher
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  #15  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 05:20 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi Nicolas,

I think it is only for out of camera JPEGs, but we'll have to wait and see.
From the Canon Professional Network website:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPNetwork
Another new feature added by the DIGIC 5+ processor is the ability to shoot multiple exposures, where several images are ‘stacked’ on top of each other. The DIGIC 5+ processor allows image stacking of between two and nine separate frames to create one single, final image. This feature is available for both RAW and JPEG images, though if M-RAW or S-RAW are set, the recording quality will automatically switch to RAW.
So apparently also Raw files can be improved for relatively stationary subjects, by e.g. averaging of up to 9 exposures. Of course this is not the same as HDR compositing, because we're still limited by the 14-bit digital number (DN or ADU) encoding. Yet, an image approaching 14 stops of Dynamic Range would be very interesting. Tonemapping such images is a different challenge.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #16  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 05:30 PM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Bart if I am not mistaken, your CPN quote is talking about the multiple exposure mode and not specifically about the HDR mode. But perhaps it also applies to the HDR mode, we'll see.

Imaging Resource writes:

Multiple Exposure Mode
Quote:
The EOS 5D Mark III is the second EOS Digital SLR after the EOS-1D X to feature Multiple Exposure capabilities with the ability to combine up to nine individual images into a single composite image, with no need for post-processing in a computer. Four different compositing methods are provided for maximum creative control, including Additive, Average, Bright and Dark. Compositing results can be viewed in real time on the camera’s LCD monitor, and there is a one-step Undo command that allows photographers to delete an image and try again if desired. The EOS 5D Mark III camera’s Multiple Exposure mode even allows photographers to specify a previously captured RAW image as the starting point for a new Multiple Exposure composite image, or shoot continuously when photographing moving subjects.
HDR Mode
Quote:
The EOS 5D Mark III camera features a built-in HDR mode, merging three images at various exposure levels into a single image, in-camera, for stunning photographs of landscapes and architecture with enhanced tonal gradation beyond the range of the naked eye. The exposure levels in the camera’s HDR mode can be set to cover a range of up to ±3 stops, in a choice of five settings: Natural, Art Standard, Art Vivid, Art Bold and Art Embossed providing unique visual effects. Individual source images can be saved as separate files, and the HDR mode has an optional automatic alignment function that can be useful for hand-held shooting. The EOS 5D Mark III’s standard Auto Exposure Bracketing function has been upgraded to allow for up to seven exposures per sequence, and exposure compensation can now be set for up to +/- 5EV.
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  #17  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 06:16 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Bart,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
So apparently also Raw files can be improved for relatively stationary subjects, by e.g. averaging of up to 9 exposures.
I take a more old-fashioned interpretation of "multiple exposure", not (necessarily) the compositing of multiple exposures of the same scene (nominally in register) but rather including the compositing of shots of different subjects or the same subject from different points of perspective to compose a new work.

Best regards,

Doug
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 06:19 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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So tell me folks, putting aside for the moment the value of the Nikon super wide lens and loyalty to one's clutch of lenses, and give Canon equal kudos for the 24mm T/S, what would make one choose between the Canon 5DIII and the Nikon D800 besides the obvious pixel advantage to Nikon?

Asher
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  #19  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 11:57 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
So tell me folks, putting aside for the moment the value of the Nikon super wide lens and loyalty to one's clutch of lenses, and give Canon equal kudos for the 24mm T/S, what would make one choose between the Canon 5DIII and the Nikon D800 besides the obvious pixel advantage to Nikon?
A quick check on the press releases shows the two cameras to be almost identical in their specs. The Nikon has a bit more pixels and a built-in flash, the Canon claims to have higher iso, that about sums it up.

Nothing worth changing systems. In any case, I'll wait to see what the third player has in store.
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  #20  
Old March 3rd, 2012, 02:39 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
I take a more old-fashioned interpretation of "multiple exposure", not (necessarily) the compositing of multiple exposures of the same scene (nominally in register) but rather including the compositing of shots of different subjects or the same subject from different points of perspective to compose a new work.
Hi Doug,

Sure, when using averaging mode one can composite multiple subjects in one frame, provided they do not overlap and are positioned against a dark backdrop to avoid over exposure. The other multiple expose settings reduce the exposure time so that adding the exposures will not saturate the sensor wells.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #21  
Old March 3rd, 2012, 02:53 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil View Post
Bart if I am not mistaken, your CPN quote is talking about the multiple exposure mode and not specifically about the HDR mode. But perhaps it also applies to the HDR mode, we'll see.
That's correct, HDR mode is only for JPEG (and can produce separate files for traditional HDR exposure compositing or fusion).

The multiple exposure mode on the other hand produces a single Raw and/or Jpeg with some creative possibilities, as Doug mentioned, but the averaging mode will allow to reduce noise by some 1.58 bits. So if the camera would have a native DR of, say, 12 stops then that could become 13.5 stops plus some amplifier noise. Not only the read noise, but even the photon shot noise would be reduced. Of course that could also mean that pattern noise becomes more visible, so we'll have to wait and see what the new sensor really brings.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #22  
Old March 20th, 2012, 05:44 PM
Adrian Wareham Adrian Wareham is offline
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In regards to weather proofing, my 550D wouldn't turn on again after getting a few drops on it under my suit on a trip to the East Coast of the US. It may have come back to life later if it had had time, (the SD card did) but the TSA made sure that wouldn't happen.
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  #23  
Old March 21st, 2012, 11:25 PM
Bradley Patten Bradley Patten is offline
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Hi all,

I'm not a Canon shooter but I did help some Canon shooters out with a shoot with the MkII in the rain last night. As a team they shoot photo and video they were really impressed with it and it shifted from a nice to have to must have over a couple of hours of pass-the-parcel style shooting (they had 1 camera between 4 of them).

Their shots, video, and thoughts can all be found here:
http://www.perspectives.co.nz/blog/c...g-in-the-rain/


Bradley.
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