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All other DSLR's and Four Thirds, 4/3 All DSLRs excluding Canon and Nikon mounts ie Sigma, Pentax, Olympus, Sony, Leica R Back DSLRs and 4/3 System

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  #61  
Old August 27th, 2011, 12:00 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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The number of pixels is not important, but I do not understand your choice. The EP-3 does not have an articulated screen (and that is very useful) and its viewfinder adds a lot of bulk. If you want to buy Olympus, the E-PL3 would seem to be a better choice (because of the articulated screen).

I also do not understand what upsets you in the Nex 7 specs or in an adapter which you will never buy (or do you have Minolta AF lenses?).

Also: while the Olympus VR is indeed a big plus, it is not very convenient to use with off-brand lenses if you intend to change lenses in the field. You need to tell the camera about the lens focal length using a service menu.
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  #62  
Old August 27th, 2011, 02:58 AM
Murray Foote Murray Foote is offline
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I found this review of the Olympus 45mm f1.8 which shows very good performance including wide open and they also have a review of the Sony 16mm that shows DPreview used an preproduction model and it has since improved from poor to adequate (thank you for that tip, Jerome).

This whole area is changing rapidly. Panasonic just released a pancake zoom. I saw a rumour than they may be announcing a high-spec GF7 at a German trade show in early September. May well not be true but not long to find out.

The thing that concerns me with the 4/3 cameras is their reduced high-ISO capabilites. I suspect this is inherent in the smaller sensor and will not change soon. I'm leaning at the moment towards getting an X100 in the short term and a NEX-7 when available, possibly keeping both.
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  #63  
Old August 27th, 2011, 10:42 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Jerome, Murray..

The biggest issue I have with Sony Nex is the availability of lenses. They seem to have concentrated on
technology in the box..I care about lenses. Small primes

Olympus has the lenses, beautiful lenses..

In the end, it is a compromise. You have this but maybe not that. A personal choice, and it is good that we
have so many choices. For me, my budget and some personal capabilities within the system and not the least,,the handling.

Thank you.
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  #64  
Old August 27th, 2011, 02:39 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
The biggest issue I have with Sony Nex is the availability of lenses. They seem to have concentrated on
technology in the box..I care about lenses. Small primes

Olympus has the lenses, beautiful lenses..
Definitely, yes. Even if Sony has announced a Carl Zeiss 24mm and a 50mm prime, Olympus (and Panasonic) have a much better choice of small primes. You said in the beginning that you wanted to use the Leica primes you already have, so I thought that this part was covered, but if you need system lenses, the choice is different.
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  #65  
Old August 27th, 2011, 09:07 PM
Murray Foote Murray Foote is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
Jerome, Murray..

The biggest issue I have with Sony Nex is the availability of lenses. They seem to have concentrated on
technology in the box..I care about lenses. Small primes

Olympus has the lenses, beautiful lenses..

In the end, it is a compromise. You have this but maybe not that. A personal choice, and it is good that we
have so many choices. For me, my budget and some personal capabilities within the system and not the least,,the handling.
Very true. If Sony had a range of small Zeiss primes they could be a serious competitor to Leica with the NEX-7 body. I can see the logic of Olympus for you. I might still end up going that way too. Faster and better lenses would counteract a better sensor and the smaller sensor size doesn't matter much below the noise limit.

In the short term an X100 appeals to me because it has by far the best quality and low-light sensitivity of all current choices though the NEX-7 with the Zeiss 24mm prime will presumably be better at twice the price. Only one lens of course. I saw a rumour that Fuji is developing an interchangeable lens version which would be a very interesting alternative. When and whether is of course another matter.

The equation is different for me, too. I'm looking for something to supplement rather than replace my Nikon system (which itself is mainly primes). I want to retain the potential at least to be able to print large. So the compromises I might choose could be different. The NEX-7 with a Nikon adaptor would also mean I wouldn't need to take my D3 as a backup body.
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  #66  
Old August 27th, 2011, 09:34 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake klein View Post
Asher have you thought about one of these for your canon?

http://www.soundblimp.com/

Exactly what I have used for the past 3 years. It works perfectly but one has to open it to alter ISO or use the liveview button!

With the latest electronic shutter cameras with APS-C size sensors, one should be able to make up for less pixels by zooming in to fill the frame. I'm thinking that the new GXR to M mount for Leica lenses would be fantastic. However, I own none of those great Leica lenses.

Fahim, since you already have the lenses, the GXR might be something to consider if one wants a totally silent camera.

Asher
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  #67  
Old August 28th, 2011, 12:14 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

How is the shutter noise on your Ricoh GXR A12/50?

Is that a leaf shutter, or is it perhaps actually the aperture iris?

For what it's worth, on the Canon Powershot SX20 IS, the shutter sound is perceptible but very slight (would never be heard by someone sitting alongside in a recital, I suspect). That machine may in fact use the aperture iris as the shutter.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #68  
Old August 28th, 2011, 12:44 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Asher,

How is the shutter noise on your Ricoh GXR A12/50?

Is that a leaf shutter, or is it perhaps actually the aperture iris?

For what it's worth, on the Canon Powershot SX20 IS, the shutter sound is perceptible but very slight (would never be heard by someone sitting alongside in a recital, I suspect). That machine may in fact use the aperture iris as the shutter.

Best regards,

Doug
Almost imperceptible when One switches off shutter sound, so I guess one is switching off the mechanical shutter and using the electronic shutter in the sensor instead.

Asher
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  #69  
Old August 28th, 2011, 12:55 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Almost imperceptible when One switches off shutter sound, so I guess one is switching off the mechanical shutter and using the electronic shutter in the sensor instead.
I would hope that switching off the "shutter sound" (which is artificially generated) would not do anything to the actual operation!

So perhaps shutter operation in that module is electronic. (We would perhaps expect to hear a small sound from the iris changing between "live viewing" and "shooting".) Or perhaps the iris is the shutter (as it was in my Fuji S602).

So does this camera play a role in your concert/recital work?

Best regards,

Doug
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  #70  
Old August 28th, 2011, 01:47 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Asher,


I would hope that switching off the "shutter sound" (which is artificially generated) would not do anything to the actual operation!

So perhaps shutter operation in that module is electronic. (We would perhaps expect to hear a small sound from the iris changing between "live viewing" and "shooting".) Or perhaps the iris is the shutter (as it was in my Fuji S602).

So does this camera play a role in your concert/recital work?
The GXR is perfect for shots when I'm in the audience 1/3 to the front and center. This is because I have only the 50mm Macro, a wonderful lens, as my longest module. That's why I'm interested in the M module, but alas the Leica lenses are too costly! There's a zoom module from GXR, but it has a smaller sensor!

Asher
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  #71  
Old August 28th, 2011, 02:46 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
The GXR is perfect for shots when I'm in the audience 1/3 to the front and center. This is because I have only the 50mm Macro, a wonderful lens, as my longest module. That's why I'm interested in the M module, but alas the Leica lenses are too costly! There's a zoom module from GXR, but it has a smaller sensor!
Is there any chance that a front-mounted 2X focal length extender would do more good than harm?

Best regards,

Doug
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  #72  
Old August 29th, 2011, 05:59 PM
Mike Shimwell Mike Shimwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
The GXR is perfect for shots when I'm in the audience 1/3 to the front and center. This is because I have only the 50mm Macro, a wonderful lens, as my longest module. That's why I'm interested in the M module, but alas the Leica lenses are too costly! There's a zoom module from GXR, but it has a smaller sensor!

Asher
Asher, you don't need a Leica lens. There are many M mount lenses availabe and also second hand Leica lenses that would work fine. The 90.2, 2.8 and 4or the 135/2.8 are all relatviely cheaply avaiable secondhand.

Mike
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  #73  
Old September 10th, 2011, 12:45 PM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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I have decided..I shall keep my film M.

And buy either the Nex7 or the Fuji X10. After researching extensively.
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  #74  
Old November 12th, 2011, 12:46 PM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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I think I am very near a decision. Shall get a Nex-7, if available in reasonable time, along with

the Novaflex adapters for M-E and F-E mounts. If the availability is suspect, I shall get the Nex-5N

plus the EVF and adapters.

For the wife, maybe a Fuji X10 or a Nex like mine with an af lens. Nex-5N as the high iso imaging is

reportedly better than the Nex-7.
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  #75  
Old November 12th, 2011, 06:33 PM
Murray Foote Murray Foote is offline
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Hi Fahim

When I was in New York recently I attended PDN Photoplus 2011 and had a play with both the NEX-7 and the X10.

The NEX-7 had the standard zoom. I asked to see a Sony 45mm f1.8 but they didn’t have them. You operate the top dials with your thumb and it seemed a little more awkward than I was expecting, but then I broke that thumb playing cricket years ago so maybe that’s me rather than the camera. The electronic viewfinder is stunning. No optical viewfinder like the Fujifilm X100 but twice the resolution for the evf and no apparent lag. I also wanted to see the focus peaking and that looked quite useful. A customisable amount of red flare around the contrast boundaries in focus. Of course you can only determine so much with a quick play, it takes a while to get attuned to a camera.

I also had a quick play with a Fujifilm X10. That seemed to fit in the hand quite well and be a good choice for someone seeking such a camera. The controls were very familiar to me from my X100. One unusual and successful design choice was pairing the on-off switch with the zoom ring, so you turn the camera on and then select the focal length for zoom in one action.

I also had a look at a Ricoh GXR with the A12 module and a Voigtlander 30mm f1.4 (which therefore had a Leica mount). Quite compact and seemingly quite viable though the focus peaking didn’t seem as useful as that on the NEX-7.
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  #76  
Old November 12th, 2011, 11:50 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
I think I am very near a decision.
Did you manage to have your D700 and M8 fixed?
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  #77  
Old November 13th, 2011, 06:47 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Did you manage to have your D700 and M8 fixed?
Hi Jerome...

Only last night, my D700 was returned. Fixed!!

Nikon replaced the cf card reader; cleaning and check-up.

Cost $110.00

Yippee!! I am excited like I got a new camera. I missed the old sod.

The M8 needs to go to Solms along with the lenses. I shall wait a while. I manage to get it into focus

by a twist here and a tweak there!! Very scientific.

Thank you for asking Jerome.

Best regards.
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  #78  
Old November 13th, 2011, 08:49 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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I should say that I am also tempted by the NEX-7. But it will not be available before the end of the year at the very earliest.

Why the NEX-7? The main advantage for me is that it is a small camera with a decent viewfinder. With age, I suffer from presbyopia and find looking at a screen held in front of my face difficult without glasses. It is better if the screen can be fold out and looked from the top, but I still have the problem that the screen cannot be seen in bright sunlight (although my camcorder proves that a LCD screen can be constructed to be seen in sunlight, I don't know any camera which uses a screen of that type).

If one wants a viewfinder, the choices are suddenly much smaller. I have looked at the Panasonic GHx line, but the cameras are bigger than what I want (especially because the viewfinder rags out of the back). I have also looked at the Olympus external viewfinder, but it changes the camera from small and neat to some kind of cyborg with an inconvenient wart on the top: it does not fit in my pocket any more, nor does it fit conveniently in a bag, etc… There is another inconvenience: the viewfinder is simply a copy of the external screen and you have the choice of having a picture devoid of any information (not even speed and aperture) or having your finder cluttered with silly symbols all around it. I hate that. Sony implementation appears to be designed like a real finder: you can have it show the uncluttered picture with speed and aperture under it.

What is nice about the Olympus finder is that it can be tilted. What is also nice about Olympus cameras is the built-in stabilization.

About the NEX 7 finder, I have seen the identical Sony finder from the A77. The Sony finder is much, much nicer than the Olympus finder, which used to be the best electronic finder on the market (the Fuji X100 finder in electronic mode is similar to the Olympus). It has very pleasing colors (warm and saturated… better than reality). It is a bit like looking at a good LCD monitor. It does not have the "rainbow effect" artifact of the Olympus or A55 viewfinder (the effect comes from the sequential display of the colors on these finders). I has a higher dynamic range. Still: it is far from a good optical finder.

Trying an electronic finder in real use, I found that:
-they are a bit too dark in bright sunlight (but still much more usable than the screen)
-they are far too bright at night and blind me.

If you want to use a manual focus lens, the NEX series has a "peaking" mode which makes focussing a breeze (I knew that from video cameras). But I am not convinced that many manual focus lenses are useful on that camera, except maybe some M-mount 35mm: with the adapter adding extra thickness, the whole system usually becomes quite big, which defeats the purpose of the camera in the first place. And of course, since it is an APS-C sensor, you won't find a wide angle (but the NEX 16mm pancake is better than its reputation).

Maybe the solution is simply to use your D700 with a nice 35mm or 50mm prime until Olympus makes a camera with a built-in finder (but they may go bankrupt and never do that)...
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  #79  
Old November 13th, 2011, 11:37 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Jerome, thank you for that informative post. Much appreciated. Need to think some more!!

Maybe I spoke too early..the D700 is exhibiting a false low battery error ( FLBE ). I am still confirming

the error. If it persists, back it goes. A little discouraged, to say the least.

Take care and thanks.
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  #80  
Old November 13th, 2011, 11:51 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
the D700 is exhibiting a false low battery error ( FLBE ).
Clean the contacts on the lens and on the camera mount. If it does not help, let the battery fully discharge and leave the camera without a battery overnight.
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  #81  
Old November 13th, 2011, 12:11 PM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Clean the contacts on the lens and on the camera mount. If it does not help, let the battery fully discharge and leave the camera without a battery overnight.
Will do. I wish I had a product I used to use..German..Contakt Kleaner. Batteries are removed. They were

fully charged. Morning I shall try other lenses too.

Thanks Jerome.
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  #82  
Old November 13th, 2011, 12:30 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
Will do. I wish I had a product I used to use..German..Contakt Kleaner.
A kleenex or Q-tip with alcohol or glass cleaning fluid will do fine. Use sparingly.
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  #83  
Old November 13th, 2011, 01:09 PM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Thanks Jerome. I have t Q-tips and the window glass cleaner.

Regards.
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  #84  
Old November 16th, 2011, 09:30 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Jerome, I have used the cam for 2 days with different lenses.

I have not had a recurrance of the error.

Thank you for the advice.

Best regards.
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  #85  
Old November 16th, 2011, 10:00 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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I am glad that the problem was so easy to fix.

BTW: Sony announced that they resumed production of the NEX 7. No information on when it will hit the shops, though.
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  #86  
Old November 16th, 2011, 04:12 PM
Murray Foote Murray Foote is offline
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FWIW, a Sony person at PDN Photoplus 2011 said next January.
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  #87  
Old November 18th, 2011, 12:10 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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I was able to try the NEX 7 yesterday (one of the two cams being in Germany according to the Sony representative...). I basically wanted to judge the size or "envelope" as was written here. With the 16mm on, the size is indeed exactly right. With the zoom or similarly sized Sony-Zeiss 24mm, the lens becomes the biggest feature (as on the NEX 5). The viewfinder is identical to the one of the A77. I can't say anything for the interface, because the camera firmware was not final. The shutter noise is smaller than on the NEX 5 or Olympus EP-1.


I was also able to try a camera which was not mentioned here, but which could be a good choice: the Fuji X10. It does not have an interchangeable lens, but the zoom covers the most useful range of focals. It has a real optical viewfinder, just like a rangefinder and that viewfinder is usable (while the one of, e.g., the Canon G10 is not). The viewfinder is not perfectly accurate (as the one of the NEX 7 is). It certainly is a camera worth looking at in a shop, it may fit the bill better than the ones discussed here.
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  #88  
Old November 19th, 2011, 01:03 PM
Michael Nagel Michael Nagel is offline
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The X10 was already mentioned here, but it is a camera worth a try. I also had the occasion to try it (most likely at the same place) and I was pleased by the results.

Best regards,
Michael
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  #89  
Old April 8th, 2012, 10:54 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
I have the occasion to physically compare camera size from time to time, because there is a shop not too far away which has quite a few on display to try. The differences between the small SLRs (especially the Olympus 4/3) and the µ4/3 aren't as big as one would believe, when you have a viewfinder and lens. Even the Nex (reportedly the smallest around) is not much smaller than a small SLR if you take into account its kit zoom and realize it does not have a viewfinder. Design makes it appear thinner than it really is. And of course the Nex 7 is not there yet, so we don't really know but rumor is that it is not very small, roughly the size of an M8.

I certainly encourage all of you to try to really try various cameras and put them side-by-side (eg on top of each other or the two touching by their bases). I bet you will be surprised.
When I wrote this text, I promised to myself that I would post a comparison picture. I finally got around to it: this is the NEX 7 side by side with the Canon EOS 450D (as an example of a typical half frame DSLR). Both cameras have their kit zoom on. The NEX 7 is chosen because it is one of the few mirrorless cameras to have a built-in viewfinder.





As I wrote, the difference in size isn't as large as one would believe. The cameras require a bag of roughly the same size.
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  #90  
Old April 17th, 2012, 02:30 PM
Michael Nagel Michael Nagel is offline
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The OM-D M5 seems also very interesting to me. I had the occasion to play with it and the results are very good.

I am thinking of reducing my DSLR equipment, adding the OM-D and keeping the X10 as compact camera for light travel.

Best regards,
Michael
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