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Image Processing and Workflow RAW, DNG , TIFF and JPG. From Capture to Ready for Publish/Display. All software and techniques used within an image workflow, (except extensive retouching and repair or DAM).

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  #1  
Old November 27th, 2015, 12:29 AM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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Default Lightroom advantages over Photoshop

I'm hoping for some simple advice.
I have photoshop CC and was having problems with one or two features, notably HDR function which was NOT working.
Anyway after many hours on the phone and online with the completely delightful support crew in New Delhi, I decided to get lightroom( it was part of the package anyway, i hadn't bothered to install it cos
My brain is in overload mode anyway.
Cutting a lengthening story short, I reinstalled PS and HDR is working beautifully and I now also have Lightroom sitting there.

Is it worth my while to start using (and learning) Lightroom?
Are there any advantages or does this old dog need to just learn one trick well (photoshop) with which I'm at least somewhat familiar?

Any advice will be gratefully received.

Thanks, Andy
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  #2  
Old November 27th, 2015, 01:27 AM
Wolfgang Plattner Wolfgang Plattner is offline
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Hi,

LR is useful for its DAM possibilities and, if one prefers that, for its capabilities on RAW-processing and DAM under one hood.
If you are familiar with PS and have a satisfying DAM-solution already, you don't need LR.
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  #3  
Old November 27th, 2015, 01:58 AM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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Thanks very much Wolfgang.
Exactly what I was hoping to hear.
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  #4  
Old November 27th, 2015, 02:43 AM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang Plattner View Post
Hi,

LR is useful for its DAM possibilities and, if one prefers that, for its capabilities on RAW-processing and DAM under one hood.
If you are familiar with PS and have a satisfying DAM-solution already, you don't need LR.
Excuse my ignorance.
What's a DAM when it's not holding back Water?
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  #5  
Old November 27th, 2015, 03:09 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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As Wolfgang said.

Generally, but not always, after LR processing own would export the file in Tiff or other format to PS or
Other sw to perform more detail processing.

For me, both LR and PS are part of the workflow.
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  #6  
Old November 27th, 2015, 03:19 AM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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Thanks Fahim, I'm sure it's worth a try but for now I'll try to improve in PS.
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  #7  
Old November 27th, 2015, 09:15 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Tom,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom dinning View Post
Excuse my ignorance.
Well, if I must.

Quote:
What's a DAM when it's not holding back Water?
Often DAM is used to mean "digital asset management". That is often a fancy word for a system of storing, cataloging, and indexing your images.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #8  
Old November 27th, 2015, 12:55 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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I use LR for keywording and to make collections of photographs.
It gives me flexibility with not too much space on disk.
CS for editing sometimes.
I am beginning to learn Affinity as alternative to CS and - who knows ? - to LR if ever they think of a subscription for it.

How do you organize your pictures ?
How do you see an image of yourself - for example - taken a few years ago ? Can you see all of your photos with a certain tag in two or three strokes ? How do you do it ? LR does it nicely.
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  #9  
Old November 27th, 2015, 01:20 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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I still use Media Pro for Digital Asset Management, (now owned by Phase One), but do not attempt to make the catalogs too large or it's slow or crashes. My catalogs are by shoot or subject and date.

I have not yet mastered a smooth workflow in Capture One's catalogs. I find the interface not-obvious!

I have Lightroom but am so accustomed to Photoshp that I almost use it exclusively, except for special pictures where I will also process from RAW in Capture One for its skin tone evening features.

I too am hoping Affinity will be able to replace Photoshop as I hate this unending "taxation"!

Asher
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  #10  
Old November 27th, 2015, 01:55 PM
Wolfgang Plattner Wolfgang Plattner is offline
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Hi,

and there's something goin' on for PhotoMechanic users ... maybe they unveal at last their DAM-solution on Dec 4th ...
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  #11  
Old November 27th, 2015, 02:06 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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PhotoMechanics
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  #12  
Old November 27th, 2015, 03:14 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
So how robust is Photomechanic? Can it handle all your files without choking or is there a practical limit and you need to break up you store of images to say 5,000 or 10,000 per catalog?

Asher
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  #13  
Old November 28th, 2015, 02:59 PM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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Thanks for all the responses.
Antonio, I use a series of folders and sub folders.
Fortunately I don't have very many good shots to keep track of.
Should I be using tag words in the filing?
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  #14  
Old November 28th, 2015, 04:15 PM
Robert Watcher Robert Watcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy brown View Post
I'm hoping for some simple advice.
I have photoshop CC and was having problems with one or two features, notably HDR function which was NOT working.
Anyway after many hours on the phone and online with the completely delightful support crew in New Delhi, I decided to get lightroom( it was part of the package anyway, i hadn't bothered to install it cos
My brain is in overload mode anyway.
Cutting a lengthening story short, I reinstalled PS and HDR is working beautifully and I now also have Lightroom sitting there.

Is it worth my while to start using (and learning) Lightroom?
Are there any advantages or does this old dog need to just learn one trick well (photoshop) with which I'm at least somewhat familiar?

Any advice will be gratefully received.

Thanks, Andy
Once I got aquainted with Lightroom, I purchased it and never looked back. I am processing hundreds and sometimes thousands of images a day. There is nothing faster or better. Lightroom handles all of my Importing and Image Management perfectly. I can quickly access any file or set of files based on any kind of search.

Lightroom filr processing is effortless and combinations of settings can be saved as a preset to apply to other files - or settings from one file can be quickly sync'd to a set of files taken under the same conditions.

I love the fact that infinite History is maintained for every file --- and unlike Photoshop, all adjustments are Non-Destructive. Lightroom allows selected images to be made into online web galleries and slideshows, and it has an excellent Print engine.

Photoshop and Bridge have for the most part gathered dust for my usage over the past 2 years since moving to Lightroom. The only situations where I might move a copy of image into Photoshop - is to composite 2 or more images together as Layers. And that is accomplished easily from within Lightroom on copy files (or original if you choose).

As for layered HDR - my version of Lightroom doesn't contain it, but I believe the latest Cloud version has that and Panorama stitching. There currently is no Content Aware ability either.


I contend that Lightroom is all that most photographers would ever need.
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  #15  
Old November 28th, 2015, 04:27 PM
Robert Watcher Robert Watcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy brown View Post
Thanks for all the responses.
Antonio, I use a series of folders and sub folders.
Fortunately I don't have very many good shots to keep track of.
Should I be using tag words in the filing?

With Lightroom, there is no need to create and keep track of folders and sub folders - it is all done for you on import. And later down the road, files can be dragged from one place to another in the files and catalogues panel in Lightroom.

Keywords can be included with files at Import - applied after import - and even painted on to large selections with a brush. Numbering and color systems can be ised for selectiong groups of files. For any selection based on meta data such as date camera type, lens used, ISO, aperture setting, and any number of other variables ----- nothing more is required on your part than clicking on your choice and all files using that specific meta data will be selected and available.

While you can make as many different Catalogues as you want, I use a large external USB3 hard drive to store all of my files on, and use only one Catalogue for all of them - having Lightroom manage them all and give me instant access to any specific file or search criteria right back to the first files that were imported. Currently that Catalogue contains around 200,000 image files from back to mid 2000's.

The only exception to the one catalogue concept, is that I have all of my professional portrait, wedding and commercial work on a separate hard drive using its own Lightroom catalogue for easy access, processing and printing of those 10's of thousands of files.
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  #16  
Old November 28th, 2015, 04:35 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Watcher View Post
With Lightroom, there is no need to create and keep track of folders and sub folders - it is all done for you on import. And later down the road, files can be dragged from one place to another in the files and catalogues panel in Lightroom.

Keywords can be included with files at Import - applied after import - and even painted on to large selections with a brush. Numbering and color systems can be ised for selectiong groups of files. For any selection based on meta data such as date camera type, lens used, ISO, aperture setting, and any number of other variables ----- nothing more is required on your part than clicking on your choice and all files using that specific meta data will be selected and available.

While you can make as many different Catalogues as you want, I use a large external USB3 hard drive to store all of my files on, and use only one Catalogue for all of them - having Lightroom manage them all and give me instant access to any specific file or search criteria right back to the first files that were imported. Currently that Catalogue contains around 200,000 image files from back to mid 2000's.

The only exception to the one catalogue concept, is that I have all of my professional portrait, wedding and commercial work on a separate hard drive using its own Lightroom catalogue for easy access, processing and printing of those 10's of thousands of files.

This sounds amazing! what about layers for masking?

Asher
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  #17  
Old November 28th, 2015, 04:54 PM
Robert Watcher Robert Watcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
This sounds amazing! what about layers for masking?

Asher
The odd time when I require compositing or layers I need to move the file from Lightroom into Photoshop and then back again. There is some limited selective masking that can be used with thr adjustments inLighteoom.
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  #18  
Old November 30th, 2015, 12:16 AM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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Robert thanks so much for your excellent posts.
I'll certainly be giving it a try soon. Hopefully I'll find it as helpful as you have.

Funny that you mentioned content aware fill.
I didn't think I'd have a use for it but I did a few canvasses recently which required a two inch margin for gallery wrap style of framing.
I didn't want to lose any of the composition of the images so I just extended the canvas size by two inches all round then used content aware fill to extend the images for the edges which get folded around the frame.
It worked extremely well in most cases and with a little extra cloning etc. the canvasses look great and the edges look seamless.
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  #19  
Old December 8th, 2015, 12:17 PM
James Lemon James Lemon is offline
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You have to make sure that you have control over your files, not some software program.

This is a program for selecting images, finalizing the look and exporting them to your archive, it is about speed. I was taught this program, but not what the software can do but what I can do.

If you tried to use a lot of files in this program it would grow and get bigger and bigger and slower as time went on. They would like you to believe that this is an organizing tool as well as for editing images, but it is not. There are other programs that are designed specifically for Digital Asset Management.

Lightroom is a great program if you know what you can do with it. Especially if you need a fast and efficient work flow.

James
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Old December 8th, 2015, 12:42 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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James I use LR and it - apparently - does not slow down the computer. Note that I said apparently because I can be used to the speed of the program and don't notice the difference also I do not have a standard.

I do not need a fast and efficient work flow but I work with LR and I like it.

If you have a huge amount of images say, 40.000 or 50.000 you can make Collections which produce catalogues, organized by themes or years for example.

However, if you open a catalogue of 2003 you will not be able to see the photos of the other years and that is not good as you have to go and open another catalogue to find the image you want.

I think the organization of the photographs by keywords is excellent. I do use it very much.

I also use the Collections which are refined keywords or selected photographs with the same keyword.

I found this in a while. But James, how do you manage your files ?
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  #21  
Old December 8th, 2015, 01:23 PM
James Lemon James Lemon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
James I use LR and it - apparently - does not slow down the computer. Note that I said apparently because I can be used to the speed of the program and don't notice the difference also I do not have a standard.

I do not need a fast and efficient work flow but I work with LR and I like it.

If you have a huge amount of images say, 40.000 or 50.000 you can make Collections which produce catalogues, organized by themes or years for example.

However, if you open a catalogue of 2003 you will not be able to see the photos of the other years and that is not good as you have to go and open another catalogue to find the image you want.

I think the organization of the photographs by keywords is excellent. I do use it very much.

I also use the Collections which are refined keywords or selected photographs with the same keyword.

I found this in a while. But James, how do you manage your files ?
Hi Antonio

The .Icrat is the actual catalog. The .Icrat are the previews in all sizes and can be quit big if it is an old catalog with many files. You don't see the size of .Icrat in the computer,you have to show info on it, and it can grow large like say 185 GB if you make a lot of images every year. So even if you deleted the images or moved them to another catalog the old catalog will maintain the previews.

Some people make 40 to 50 thousand images a year Antonio.

You may want to check out Media Pro

https://www.phaseone.com/en/Imaging-...Media-Pro.aspx

James
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Old December 8th, 2015, 02:23 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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I am not interested as you can imagine, but it is not expensive at 139 € + 25% VAT = 173 € considering the power of the tool and capabilities.

LR looks like a product for other users.

I like PODAS ;)
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  #23  
Old December 8th, 2015, 03:25 PM
Robert Watcher Robert Watcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lemon View Post
You have to make sure that you have control over your files, not some software program.

This is a program for selecting images, finalizing the look and exporting them to your archive, it is about speed. I was taught this program, but not what the software can do but what I can do.

If you tried to use a lot of files in this program it would grow and get bigger and bigger and slower as time went on. They would like you to believe that this is an organizing tool as well as for editing images, but it is not. There are other programs that are designed specifically for Digital Asset Management.

Lightroom is a great program if you know what you can do with it. Especially if you need a fast and efficient work flow.

James
I don't disagree that there may be other specialized programs that can handle specific tasks slightly faster or more efficiently. But the desire to have various programs (in the distant past it was to have programs that I could afford when Adobe products were too expensive and not as versatile as they are now) is long gone.

For 2 years I have been using the very basic $1,000 Macbook Air and with my packed 2 TB USB3 drives and hundreds of thousands of files in ONE CATALOGUE (for the ease of managing and accessing all files quickly) stored on the same USB3 Hard Drive - - - - there is nothing slow about Lightroom. My computer stays on 24 hours a day with the hard drive attached.

The only thing that a massive number of files all in one catalogue may slow down, is with a fresh start where it may take a minute or two to initiate all of the file system and previews (doesn't have to be done when computer is left on) - - - but once that is done, accessing files and editing and exporting is as fast as anything I have ever used.

A TIP: One of the most entertaining and helpful teachers of Lightroom is Tim Grey. I have learned so much from his videos that are on his YOUTUBE CHANNEL. Some are up on B&H. Highly recommended:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSwk...uzPucTLsQc5Xxd

This is his Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5k...eB_Rks9YpWMlVg



--------
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  #24  
Old December 8th, 2015, 03:58 PM
James Lemon James Lemon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Watcher View Post
I don't disagree that there may be other specialized programs that can handle specific tasks slightly faster or more efficiently. But the desire to have various programs (in the distant past it was to have programs that I could afford when Adobe products were too expensive and not as versatile as they are now) is long gone.

For 2 years I have been using the very basic $1,000 Macbook Air and with my packed 2 TB USB3 drives and hundreds of thousands of files in ONE CATALOGUE (for the ease of managing and accessing all files quickly) stored on the same USB3 Hard Drive - - - - there is nothing slow about Lightroom. My computer stays on 24 hours a day with the hard drive attached.

The only thing that a massive number of files all in one catalogue may slow down, is with a fresh start where it may take a minute or two to initiate all of the file system and previews (doesn't have to be done when computer is left on) - - - but once that is done, accessing files and editing and exporting is as fast as anything I have ever used.

A TIP: One of the most entertaining and helpful teachers of Lightroom is Tim Grey. I have learned so much from his videos that are on his YOUTUBE CHANNEL. Some are up on B&H. Highly recommended:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSwk...uzPucTLsQc5Xxd

This is his Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5k...eB_Rks9YpWMlVg



--------
Hi Robert
I do not use Lightroom as a file management system my only point is that there better programs for Digtal asset management. My work flow is fast and very effective and I do not rely on Lightrooms limited capabilities for file management. I only use it for selecting editing and exporting finalized images to my archive and other media. I delete nothing but only finalize the images that I select. All negatives are archived but I never go back to work on them at a later date. Although I could if I chose to.

James
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