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Deciding to venture into B&W Photography: an Open Letter to David Butcher

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Very Occasionaly a new person arrives and it's evident in their online galleries that there, among a wide range of images, is one common thread of individual expression that is like a thin vein of gold among the strata of a rocky outgrowth in a desert! Is there a substantial treasure to be discovered? Is there magic to be fashioned based is this sighting a distraction or else nothing more than "fool's gold"?

So I am taken the brazen action of suggesting to one such individual, (whose work I have just begun to probe), a path to B&W photography that might be explored and modified as needed for him and anyone else on the edge of making such a journey and commitment.

Thank you Asher. I just looked up Cem's photographs and I like the industrial one of the people sunbathing. And the one that you liked is also one that my biggest critic and supporter both liked and that is my wife. And I never thought of my photography as "outside of "civilization" looking in" but those pictures are the ones that a lot of people like and I never thought about it till now.


DESERT%20AND%20CITY%2000009-L.jpg


This picture also looks back at civilization from the untouched natural world. It works especially well in B&W. This puts your work into a class which leaves behind the luxuries, beauty and signals of color for just the physicality of the elements. The latter can still have their identities, but everything now competes in a common medium of the intensity, shapes, contours, junctions, contrasts, rhythm, variabity, balance, extent of symmetry and miore of what is boiled down to a shared vocabulary of black or white marks or gradients constuting, or not shapes we might explore, perhaps recognize, but at a minimum hold our fascination.

If one is going to work in B&W, then it should be, IMHO, an artistic or functional commitment to the work, not a weak choice to "cover all bases" and at least please someone!

So, as yourself, what is the best way of exploring my topic? Does color provide an essential component. If not, am I able to map these colors to tonalities all along the grey scale so that a unique image is made that appears authentic to my self and vision? If not, stick with color until you feel differently.

I would look at the work of Antonio Correia as he has a good sense of monochrome work for both landscapes and especially for his extraordinary portraits. The set up is simple but the experience has roots in years of refinement and ability to make folk trust him. Look at the photographs of architecture and city bridge, monuments and statues by Paul. Also download for yourself 6 pictures each from Henri Cartier Bresson, any Magnum Photographer, Elliott Erwitt, Penti Sammallahti, Ruth Bernard, Sebastio Salgado, Helmut Newton, Steiglitz, Steichan, Strand, Bob Kolbrenner and Edward Weston.

Just one a week!

It doesn't matter which order, but after each download and an hour of reading about that photographer, go out and take more pictures on your theme, "Looking Back to Civilization", for example. However, do not attempt to copy any one else's style, rather accept each photographer's work as examples of private and contiguous expression. Be formal in writing down what you intend to do and what you are not going to do and then shoot.

When you return, print your best 3 pictures in B&W and make 5 photocopies of each. Get a wax red pencil. Now mark them up with your comments on what is perfect and what you might reprocess or reshoot.

Do not buy a bunch of books or take courses. Instead, visit galleries and public museums. You might not get to read that book. The class is a distraction usually and the museums show coherent works, each voice, the photographer's own expression from deep inside thenselves. These are your colleagues, not mentors. You make the work for yourself, but imagine you are now in a club, so you better do work that best represents you.

Asher
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This effort is initiated in the hope that it will guide photographers
who have a "vision", a driven interest and inspiration, but need

1. the skills to see photographically.
2. An approach to content, timing and composition
3. Appreciation of at least a few the photographic greats
4. The skills to learn from one's "misses".



Feel free to correct my guide or comment as you see fit, but keep on topic and assume that David or others want and appreciate such encouragement and helpful ideas. Thanks to Robert Watcher for allowing me to repost, with some minor edits, what he originally posted here. The contribution us so helpful for all of us improving our own work that I tried to showcase the ideas here too.

Asher
 
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Robert Watcher

Well-known member
What I see in every one of your images posted here, is typical of how everyone picking up a camera thinks they are capturing the true essence of what is front of them. The problem is that when they are looking at or showing others their photographs - they are seeing in the scene what they "experienced" and what "they know" was taking place. Problem is that noone else recognizes those things. This is totally common.

most are your pictures

  • are so far back that they are capturing all of what you were looking at
  • don't pass the right portion of information on to anyone who would view your picture.
  • lack strong composition or content to draw someone in .
  • cannot then be rescued by conversion to black and white!


Robert
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
Mistake of just finding what's good after the picture has been taken!

A common mistake is to try and create a story out of what you have photographed.

[You come home with the picture and the main subject doesn't pop out!]

I'll give you 2 examples from this set of pics.

  • First is your comment that you wanted to keep the museum in silhouette. I suspect that this was an observation after the fact.



    DESERT%20AND%20CITY%2000003-L.jpg



    Why I can say that is that your cameras meter would automatically recognize the large expanse in the scene and provide a correct exposure for the sky - as it did. So unless you were using exposure compensation to brighten the scene to make the buildings brighter and thus overexpose the sky --- there would be no other outcome than the buildings being dark as they are.

  • A second example is trying to make a story by isolating a portion of the frame and turning the rest onto black and white as in your cactus with selective colour.



    GEDC2341%2001%20-%20Copy-L.jpg



    I would recommend not using this technique as it seldom works and is a little dated and tacky nowadays. It was common several years ago in the wedding and fashion trade. The point is to find ways through focal length selection, moving around the subject or probably most important - picking times early or late in the day to shoot.







Forget about what your eyes are seeing, and instead visualize
what it is about the scene that is attracting you, and then hone
in on specific elements that can help refelect that to your viewers.




At this point, forget about technical skills and try to develop your creative skills. An example may be with your photo of the woman on the phone.






Unless you said what was going on, it is impossible to tell. There is too much confusion, eyes are drawn to the blown out rocks in the foreground. So moving in tigher physically or with azoom lens would have been a good start. Not having her in dead center would also be useful. Moving your shooting position (by walking and moving your body) may provide a simpler background. Try to learn to see what is all around and behind - not just what is taking place that you are seeing with your eyes.

It's great that you have an interesting concept here.

Now you have the idea, just figure out how to deliver the goods
when it comes to making your photographs speak to others.


A good practice might be trying to figure what it is about photographers images that really hit you - that makes that happen and then see if can't find a similar success by looking for such scenarios and content to practice on. Developing creative skills takes time and lots of dedicated practice. Once you got a handle on that, you can worry about technical refinements - although that is becoming less of a need as cameras develop the way they are.

I know [we all] would prefer to hear 'really nice puctures', but I can't say that and thought I may provide amore beneficial response in your case ---- because you have expressed the desire to improve. All the best.
 
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Dave Butcher

New member
Sigh, when I first read Asher's comments and suggestions on my work, I felt hope. Hope that I could make it someday. But after reading Roberts comments and what I feel are attacks in not one but two spots it makes me want to give up. You know I give the same effort to going out there and taking working on getting better as I give to doing my job and to the effort I gave as a firefighter.

I did not see one thing positive from Robert at least from Asher there was some kind of hope. Hell Asher I ripped a photo apart that I loved being really hard on myself.

But right now I feel that I have had my heart ripped out and it is sad to say I feel like I am back with my ex wife who use to rip everything I enjoyed apart and who use to make me feel like I was nothing. You know guys what I use as a camera I do not have a two thousand dollar camera I have a two hundred dollar camera. Five people have expressed that they feel that I have the desire and the willingness to do what it takes and in two posts I feel like the village idiot knocking on the door and wanting to come in. I am sorry that I wasted your time guys. I guess I just don't have what it takes.

PhotoScan-X2.jpg
 

Roger Lund

New member
Sigh, when I first read Asher's comments and suggestions on my work, I felt hope. Hope that I could make it someday. But after reading Roberts comments and what I feel are attacks in not one but two spots it makes me want to give up. You know I give the same effort to going out there and taking working on getting better as I give to doing my job and to the effort I gave as a firefighter.

I did not see one thing positive from Robert at least from Asher there was some kind of hope. Hell Asher I ripped a photo apart that I loved being really hard on myself.

But right now I feel that I have had my heart ripped out and it is sad to say I feel like I am back with my ex wife who use to rip everything I enjoyed apart and who use to make me feel like I was nothing. You know guys what I use as a camera I do not have a two thousand dollar camera I have a two hundred dollar camera. Five people have expressed that they feel that I have the desire and the willingness to do what it takes and in two posts I feel like the village idiot knocking on the door and wanting to come in. I am sorry that I wasted your time guys. I guess I just don't have what it takes.

PhotoScan-X2.jpg

Don't let some C&C impact something you enjoy doing. But it takes a huge commitment of time and money to compete with the expectations of a pro photographer that dedicates a career and more to the trade. Focus on a couple books, to sharpen skills then learn to apply what you've read until you learn how to best capture the scene your capturing with the gear you have as your viewing it. When it comes to C&C, make sure to use it, ask for examples of how, why, what could I have done etc.

Just my two cents.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Dave,

You have a creative appreciation of what you see. That's an unusual gift. Most folk just arrive one scene without noticing anything but what's beautiful or else tragic! Not many folk look at the world from a unique point of view. This puts you ahead of most camera owners.

The tough but necessary thing for us to discover is how to move from a brilliant idea to actually exporting that to something physical that others can enjoy. As Robert emphasizes, pointing the camera at the "magic" one sees is only the very earliest stage in our exploitation of ability to notice what's great and then to be able to isolate that small part of everything that's there to deliver the essence of the matter!

You're not alone in getting discouraged by criticism,LOL! I am used to getting little praise and mostly a look of disdain from my sons! In the USA, we're used to everyone in the school team getting a medal. However, then our kids are not prepared for hurt later on. We actually have to be able to take criticism.

I am sure that you have what it takes as long as you take things one step at a time and don't shoot the messenger.

Just look at the very simple image by Michael Nagel. Some repeat pattern of jaggies caught his eye. What he did is ONLY show that, nothing else.....and it works.

The skill we all have to learn, (and relearn all our photography career), is to be able to decide for ourselves what exactly is the subject we perceive in the entire place and what is actually needed? What angle, what must be excluded, what will be placed to the left and right to make the balance in the picture.

This is something anyone can learn. However, each of us must define for ourselves what is actually absolutely needed for our vision and hunt then for that unique set up which shows others what we feel!

Be positive!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
But right now I feel that I have had my heart ripped out and it is sad to say I feel like I am back with my ex wife who use to rip everything I enjoyed apart and who use to make me feel like I was nothing.

No photographer made it on their first try. May I suggest a simple exercise? Go out and walk until you find something which you feel to be interesting. It could be a building, a stone, a plant, anything. Then try to take about 20 different pictures of it, just with the camera (no post-processing, effects, etc... just different angles, shooting positions and distances). Post between 3 and 5.
 

Dave Butcher

New member
Thank you all and you too Robert for your comments and thoughts. I just felt very discouraged last night. I have taken Asher's ideas to heart and even Roberts.

I was out taking pictures all day yesterday of my favorite subject which is the fire service and I stopped at the Fallen Firefighters Memorial here in Las Vegas. I shot the photo in both color and black and white and I sat down and followed Asher's comments and suggestions and here are some of the notes that I made on the picture. I do not have the red grease pencil so I used one the tools of my normal trade and that is a sharpie.

PhotoScan-L.jpg


And here is the one without the my notes on it. The only difference in the two is the printing.

GEDC3449-L.jpg
 

Michael Nagel

Well-known member
Dave,

Interesting first try - maybe try to get the horizon adjusted as well. For me this is distracting here...

Did you try to look through a filter to get a monochrome view of your surroundings?
This was for me the first step in seeing b/w. Once you started, there is a point you don't need that filter any more...

Best regards,
Michael
 

Dave Butcher

New member
Dave,

Interesting first try - maybe try to get the horizon adjusted as well. For me this is distracting here...

Did you try to look through a filter to get a monochrome view of your surroundings?
This was for me the first step in seeing b/w. Once you started, there is a point you don't need that filter any more...

Best regards,
Michael

Thank you Micheal I just did an adjustment on the picture and it looks ten times better.

GEDC3449-L.jpg


As far as the question about the filter I just have basic equipment right now. I will set my camera on B/W and look through the VF and at the displace screen.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Dave,

Nice shot, and I enjoyed seeing its "evolution".

So while we're making suggestions, I would like to see the helmet "sharper". It is a key element.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
Sigh, when I first read Asher's comments and suggestions on my work, I felt hope. Hope that I could make it someday. But after reading Roberts comments and what I feel are attacks in not one but two spots it makes me want to give up. You know I give the same effort to going out there and taking working on getting better as I give to doing my job and to the effort I gave as a firefighter.

I did not see one thing positive from Robert at least from Asher there was some kind of hope. Hell Asher I ripped a photo apart that I loved being really hard on myself.

But right now I feel that I have had my heart ripped out and it is sad to say I feel like I am back with my ex wife who use to rip everything I enjoyed apart and who use to make me feel like I was nothing. You know guys what I use as a camera I do not have a two thousand dollar camera I have a two hundred dollar camera. Five people have expressed that they feel that I have the desire and the willingness to do what it takes and in two posts I feel like the village idiot knocking on the door and wanting to come in. I am sorry that I wasted your time guys. I guess I just don't have what it takes.

PhotoScan-X2.jpg


It's really unfortunate that you took what I said this way.
 
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Dave Butcher

New member
Hello All

Last night I was having a very bad night and a really rough couple of days. Robert was kind enough to take the time to offer some suggestions and I did not react well to it. I am sorry for that. I talked with a friend of mine today who is a professional photographer and he knows Asher and Roberts works and he told me that they both are fantastic artists and photographers. I acted like a idiot when Robert gave me some fantastic advise. And what is funny is that my friend said the same things as both Robert and Asher told me and I was being thin skinned about it.

To Robert I want to say I am very sorry and I also want to say that I really appreciate you taking the time to look at my work. If you are still willing I would love your input. If not I will understand. Thank you both Asher and Robert and all that have offered suggestions and pointers.

Asher if you would rather I leave the forum I will understand.

Dave
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
Hello All

Last night I was having a very bad night and a really rough couple of days. Robert was kind enough to take the time to offer some suggestions and I did not react well to it. I am sorry for that. I talked with a friend of mine today who is a professional photographer and he knows Asher and Roberts works and he told me that they both are fantastic artists and photographers. I acted like a idiot when Robert gave me some fantastic advise. And what is funny is that my friend said the same things as both Robert and Asher told me and I was being thin skinned about it.

To Robert I want to say I am very sorry and I also want to say that I really appreciate you taking the time to look at my work. If you are still willing I would love your input. If not I will understand. Thank you both Asher and Robert and all that have offered suggestions and pointers.

Asher if you would rather I leave the forum I will understand.

Dave

Dave you are NOT LEAVING THE FORUM! I took nothing you said personally. It is nice to hear your thoughts and I recognize your humility by expressing them. If you want to be good at your photography - as you have expressed, it will never happen if you give up.
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
About the only advice I can give for stating with improving this image - - - is to go back at a different time of day - either very early in the morning or quite late in the day. The low angle of light will create more colour, texture and depth, interesting shadows and may cut out much of the clutter in the background of an image. It is virtually impossible to make a captivating photograph when shooting in midday. Once you start to see texture and mood, then you may recognize better, how to improve composition.
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
OH - and if you research - - - you should find all kinds of images on the web that may give you ideas of how to handle the same subject you are shooting or similar subjects.

For example, by entering the Google Search Phrase "las vegas firemans memorial" I was able to come up with images of the same location you are shooting here. If you aren't aware, Google has a Search tab for Images. Try it and see what you come up with. I don't know the place or where it is - you should be able to be more specific.

"las vegas firemans memorial"

https://www.google.com/search?q=las...ChMI5uaLo-O7yAIVy9KACh02MAYH&biw=1390&bih=789

A couple of the photos on there show shooting angles totally different than you are using - that get rid of the electric poles and lines and soccer nets and whatnot. I'm not saying they are better photos that yours. But they may give you ideas so that you can go back and look around for those spots or angles and try them in your own photography and see what happens.


Here is an example from the search that demonstrates the difference more dramatic lighting (taken later in the day or early morning and in this case overcast too) can make:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...as+and+the+Firefighters+Memorial+Park+069.JPG

Here is a DETAIL SHOT that may prove far better at telling the story than the overall scene - depending on your point of view:

http://lvartscommission.com/wp-content/uploads/formidable/LVOCA_BAN_TRI_041.jpg


-------
--------
 
Dave Butcher, don't worry so much about adverse criticism unless you are working to the commercial aspirations of a paying client. If they don't like what you produce and may not pay you that's bad. But if you are making personally expressive art then it's a very different situation.

In an art context, and that can include photography, the artist cannot even in principle be wrong. So long as the picture is authentically what you intend it is right. If you sign it, or sign off on it, and then display it you have completed your side of the creative bargain with your audience. And then the challenge to complete the art cycle: creation, display, appreciation - passes to that audience.

Impeccable pictures can be disliked for several reasons:
The subject matter is unfamiliar or unpleasant to the viewer.
The viewer is looking for things the artist didn't include.
The material is contrary to conventional standards of good and bad.
Other artists insist they would have rendered the subject differently and better.
The artist and viewer are of incompatible psychological types and have no common ground.

Dave, take advice but don't be ruled by it. Great pictures are not made by committees.
 

Dave Butcher

New member
Dave Butcher, don't worry so much about adverse criticism unless you are working to the commercial aspirations of a paying client. If they don't like what you produce and may not pay you that's bad. But if you are making personally expressive art then it's a very different situation.

In an art context, and that can include photography, the artist cannot even in principle be wrong. So long as the picture is authentically what you intend it is right. If you sign it, or sign off on it, and then display it you have completed your side of the creative bargain with your audience. And then the challenge to complete the art cycle: creation, display, appreciation - passes to that audience.

Impeccable pictures can be disliked for several reasons:
The subject matter is unfamiliar or unpleasant to the viewer.
The viewer is looking for things the artist didn't include.
The material is contrary to conventional standards of good and bad.
Other artists insist they would have rendered the subject differently and better.
The artist and viewer are of incompatible psychological types and have no common ground.

Dave, take advice but don't be ruled by it. Great pictures are not made by committees.

WOW and Thank You.
 

Dave Butcher

New member
OH - and if you research - - - you should find all kinds of images on the web that may give you ideas of how to handle the same subject you are shooting or similar subjects.

For example, by entering the Google Search Phrase "las vegas firemans memorial" I was able to come up with images of the same location you are shooting here. If you aren't aware, Google has a Search tab for Images. Try it and see what you come up with. I don't know the place or where it is - you should be able to be more specific.

"las vegas firemans memorial"

https://www.google.com/search?q=las...ChMI5uaLo-O7yAIVy9KACh02MAYH&biw=1390&bih=789

A couple of the photos on there show shooting angles totally different than you are using - that get rid of the electric poles and lines and soccer nets and whatnot. I'm not saying they are better photos that yours. But they may give you ideas so that you can go back and look around for those spots or angles and try them in your own photography and see what happens.


Here is an example from the search that demonstrates the difference more dramatic lighting (taken later in the day or early morning and in this case overcast too) can make:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...as+and+the+Firefighters+Memorial+Park+069.JPG

Here is a DETAIL SHOT that may prove far better at telling the story than the overall scene - depending on your point of view:

http://lvartscommission.com/wp-content/uploads/formidable/LVOCA_BAN_TRI_041.jpg


-------
--------

Rob first of all thank you for being patient with me.

Here are some more pictures that I took of the Firefighters Memorial yesterday.

The first picture that I am posting is a detailed picture of the helmet front piece. This picture drew me in and I absolutely love it. My hardest critic, who is my wife and herself an artist, did not like this picture she told me it is "tourist".

GEDC3443-L.jpg


I know that I should show all in either color or b/w but to me this memorial is just like it was in Manassas, VA when I walked the National Battlefield and that was very eerie.

GEDC3444-L.jpg


Here are the rest.

GEDC3445-L.jpg


GEDC3428-L.jpg


https://dw-butcher-photography.smug...IGHTERS-MEMORIAL/i-qPPwHbm/0/L/GEDC3422-L.jpg

GEDC3460-L.jpg


GEDC3445-L.jpg


I spent about an hour and took about fifty pictures of the Memorial, I took pictures at all angels of it. But did not like most and a few upset me.

I was at the Memorial also during the 9-11 Ceremony which was just shortly after sunrise.

Please take a minute and look at the album it has more pictures that I took during this years 9-11 Ceremony.

https://dw-butcher-photography.smugmug.com/THE-BRAVEST-FINEST-ETC/NV-FIREFIGHTERS-MEMORIAL/

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
 
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Robert Watcher

Well-known member
I spent about an hour and took about fifty pictures of the Memorial, I took pictures at all angels of it. But did not like most and a few upset me.

I was at the Memorial also during the 9-11 Ceremony which was just shortly after sunrise.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

If you are interested in telling the story of this memorial ---- then your approach was correct in taking a large variety of photos from different angles and distances. I would say that with subject matter like this memorial it would be a challenge to tell the story with one overall image of the structure.

Did you notice the visual impact to be better when you photographed at sunrise? If so, explore such methods more when photographing in the future.

As far as this particular sibject matter - I have no idea how I would photograph it to make it interesting. While it may have great meaning and sentimentailty attached to it, it is probably not the greatest content or setting for a creative photograph.

If you are wanting to have a nice record of the memorial, it looks like you have a collection of images in what you have taken. These last pics are much nicer that the initial with all the markup on it.
 

Dave Butcher

New member
If you are interested in telling the story of this memorial ---- then your approach was correct in taking a large variety of photos from different angles and distances. I would say that with subject matter like this memorial it would be a challenge to tell the story with one overall image of the structure.

Did you notice the visual impact to be better when you photographed at sunrise? If so, explore such methods more when photographing in the future.

As far as this particular sibject matter - I have no idea how I would photograph it to make it interesting. While it may have great meaning and sentimentality attached to it, it is probably not the greatest content or setting for a creative photograph.

If you are wanting to have a nice record of the memorial, it looks like you have a collection of images in what you have taken. These last pics are much nicer that the initial with all the markup on it.

Thank you very much Robert.

In the picture that I took at sunrise the most striking thing to me was the police and firefighters there along with the Flag at Half Mast. I am planning on trying to get back there again during the summer when I feel that the sunrise is more brilliant and also planning on going there after work at sunset and see what kind of photo's I can get. And you are very right I did not have a clue how to shoot this and make it interesting also.

And you are right on content and setting for creative photography there are only a few angels that make it pop and that give the wow factor. For me this is something I wanted to photograph and it was something that has sentimental value to me.

Here is the picture I took at Sunrise on 9-11-2015

GEDC1526-XL.jpg
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
Thank you very much Robert.

In the picture that I took at sunrise the most striking thing to me was the police and firefighters there along with the Flag at Half Mast. I am planning on trying to get back there again during the summer when I feel that the sunrise is more brilliant and also planning on going there after work at sunset and see what kind of photo's I can get. And you are very right I did not have a clue how to shoot this and make it interesting also.

And you are right on content and setting for creative photography there are only a few angels that make it pop and that give the wow factor. For me this is something I wanted to photograph and it was something that has sentimental value to me.

Here is the picture I took at Sunrise on 9-11-2015

GEDC1526-XL.jpg

And including creative angles of people in the photo may be the best way to create interest and give a narrative to the memorial.

How I probably would have framed this? I would have been standing to the right of where you were standing with the helmut and axe part composed to the left of the frame and full view of the soldiers looking on, composed more to the center right side of my frame. This would have provided a real visual impact I suspect. There is no need to include all of the monument for viewers to get a feel for what it is.
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
So I hunted around my files and found an example of a similar type of structure. This is the only time I've photographed such a sculpture because they really aren't interesting subjects to me.

But on this occasion I was doing photojournalistic work in Costa Rica and this memorial statue is in the centre of town providing a memory to the history of the area.

So I don't have my own photograph of an overview of what the area looks like or how a tourist snapshot might look - but here are a couple of angles from a Google search that helps to show the uninteresting backdrop and photographic challenges:

http://www.traveljournals.net/pictu...an-santamarina-statue-alajuela-costa-rica.jpg

https://puravidaycostarica.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/dscn4561.jpg




So when I first came across the statue, I moved all around it and could not find a good angle without buildings and electric lines and all kinds of rubble. Also I happened to be there at midday (just before 1:00) so the lighting was not going to be complimentary.

I never miss out on getting a record shot though - just in case I wasn't able to get back to the area.

-----

So to get around the issue of the background and the poor lighting - I did two things to minimize the issues as best as possible:

1: First was to position myself where the direction of the lighting was coming from the at least the side if not a bit from the back of the subject (I wasn't overly worried about lighting on the monument itself). Even though the sun is high, there is still direction. You should notice that there are shadowed areas on the front that is facing me. It turned out that this shooting angle was fine for capturing the whole monument from the front.

2: Secondly I lowered my camera as low as I could while standing - to elongate the structure for interest and to lower the horizon line - putting the structure more into the plain area of the sky and as well eliminating most of the buildings and electric poles and wires. I had my record shot and it was decent enough for that purpose.

**** One interesting thing about the direction of the light in this photo. When my camera is aimed up, the angle of light is changed on the soldier so that it was coming more as if from later in the day - even though this was almost noon lighting. That is why there is a nice rimlighting that you could only expect from a lower angle of light hitting the subject from the opposite side of the shooting position. Mind you the light doesn't have the warmth or coolness that result from shooting early or late.

Here is the Record shot taken at midday, an overview of the memorial:

20080308-DSC_1489.jpg

One thing that I never want to do is shoot everything at eye level. In the above overview image, I got as low as I could while still being able to look in the viewfinder (if I had my new Olympus Pens with flip out screen I would have been even lower). The other option is to shoot from a higher than eye level position.


About 2 weeks later I was back in the area and revisited to see if I could find an interesting perspective of the statue.


This time I wanted to focus on just the solider at the top being that anything else would take away from what it means. In this case I would not find an interesting angle by shooting up from the base.

To get to a higher vantage point, it was necessary for me to move a distance away across the street and capture the image with a long focal length. The trajectory would be pretty well horizontal and the longer focal length of 300mm would provide a nice compression effect not just on the bronze sculpture but with the misty mountains as they blend into the sky in the distance.

Also I had timed my visit so that it was later in the day at around 4:30PM (it gets dark around 5:30 or so in Central America). The improved lighting and resulting shadows in the textured areas of the solider - along with some subtle colour warmth added in post processing - help to reveal that the statue is made of bronze. Even though backlit, the lighting is hitting more of the front of the soldier than at noon time.

This Soldier Profile was my result:

20080324-DSC_2824-Edit.jpg

Both images are fine for telling the historical story. Neither are of that much interest to me as a creative work though.

I thought I would post these images and observations to give you my approach to a similar content.
You may find some value from it.

---------
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Dave,

Your passion for the memorial is palpable, and wonderful.

But while passion can fuel and propel our work, it usually can't steer it.

For example, I often find that in one of my technical articles, I will expend gigantic labor, and then expend hundred of words, to illuminate some obscure matter that is very dear to me, but doesn't really add that much to what the reader gets.

For example, why did a wise technician working at a telephone test board hook the anchor loop of the 25-foot long spring cord on his headset to his belt at one side rather than in front?​

I don't know how to advise you in the challenges of a "great" photo of the memorial. But I urge that you don't let your fuel get in the way of your steering.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thus, with Doug's expression of his own "recruitment" to Robert's delivered photograph, the arc of artistic intent is completed. So the photograph that Robert shared above is now "Art" recognized as such in the public space. That is what art "is"!

"Arc of Artistic Intent" according to my way of thinking:

Artist has an idea in the Cathedral of his/her mind
Artist works on the right conditions to express that idea in a physical medium
The developing physical form starts to come alive to the artist, getting air in its nostrils and then arguing with its creator for independence
The artist expectations are met
The work is now "Art" for that artist evoking much of the feelings, thoughts, emotions and possibilities the artist had imagined in the Cathedral of the mind
The art is now "Independant" of the artist and "must survive by others enjoying it too"
Someone experiences the art and become appreciative of the work, values it and recruits others.
Now this is art for all of us!
Over time, humanity might treasure this work or it might be forgotten

Asher
 

Dave Butcher

New member
Thus, with Doug's expression of his own "recruitment" to Robert's delivered photograph, the arc of artistic intent is completed. So the photograph that Robert shared above is now "Art" recognized as such in the public space. That is what art "is"!

"Arc of Artistic Intent" according to my way of thinking:

Artist has an idea in the Cathedral of his/her mind
Artist works on the right conditions to express that idea in a physical medium
The developing physical form starts to come alive to the artist, getting air in its nostrils and then arguing with its creator for independence
The artist expectations are met
The work is now "Art" for that artist evoking much of the feelings, thoughts, emotions and possibilities the artist had imagined in the Cathedral of the mind
The art is now "Independant" of the artist and "must survive by others enjoying it too"
Someone experiences the art and become appreciative of the work, values it and recruits others.
Now this is art for all of us!
Over time, humanity might treasure this work or it might be forgotten

Asher

I like this Asher, I read this at the end of my workday in the office as I was checking my emails and here. I never thought of things this way.
 

Dave Butcher

New member
Hi, Dave,

Your passion for the memorial is palpable, and wonderful.

But while passion can fuel and propel our work, it usually can't steer it.

For example, I often find that in one of my technical articles, I will expend gigantic labor, and then expend hundred of words, to illuminate some obscure matter that is very dear to me, but doesn't really add that much to what the reader gets.

For example, why did a wise technician working at a telephone test board hook the anchor loop of the 25-foot long spring cord on his headset to his belt at one side rather than in front?​

I don't know how to advise you in the challenges of a "great" photo of the memorial. But I urge that you don't let your fuel get in the way of your steering.

Best regards,

Doug

Thank you Doug and that is very sound advise. For me the passion of the "great" picture of the Memorial is one that I am striving to share with my fellow firefighters and fire buffs and also to hang on the wall of my toy room/den/sanctuary. The place where pictures from my firefighting days hang and where some of my favorite fire pictures hang.

But this picture is one that to me holds special meaning and that is why I have a passion for it. I lost a friend of mine a couple of years ago in a fire in which four firefighters were killed. This man fueled my passion for taking pictures of fire equipment and was like you, Robert, Asher, and all of you that have taken me under your wings and are willing to teach me. For me the Perfect picture of the memorial will prepare me for the day that I travel to the National Fallen Firefighter's Memorial and document that, with one special picture being the brick that has my friends name on it.
 
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