Lens and software etc for Team Sports?

I was asked today to shoot a series of hockey games.

I realized fast that I should not have sold my 300 2.8L!

So I started to look to replace that magic lens. I was surprised to find how well people reported on the rival Sigma 300 2.8 snapping into focus and as fast with the x1.4 and x2.0.

I was surprised to discover that Tamron and Tokina compete here too.

So I wonder what you use for shooting games like soccer and hockey?


1. Camera and lens 300mm 2.8 or what?

2. Focus setting Tracking or not?

3. Image quality MP size? JPG or RAW and then convert to jpg, I dont think so!

4. Software to Ingest: Photomechanic, ivewmedia Pro or what?

5. Processing printing from what software?

6. Print on site? if so printer?

Shooting so many people is arduous. Such a lot of emotions are at stake and all this get captured in the photos. Then the winning team's pics with trophy's are marvelous!

Could you shae what you use!

Asher

i'm a veteran of many high school hockey games
i've learned that everybody does it differently and for different reasons, so this is IMO only...
1) i rarely use the 300 f/2.8...too tight. good for "portrait" style shots and i have used it on occasion. i mostly use the 70-200 f/2.8 IS. this allows me to have good width for action shots (several players wide) and i can still focus in. sometimes i use the 135 f/2 and/or the 85 f/1.8 and even the 50 f/1.4. where do you shoot from? i don't shoot soccer, but i do shoot lacrosse. for that i often use the 300 as well as for football.
2) ai servo, shutter priority to keep the speed up. hockey requires iso 1600 to acomplish this, and it's a battle at that.
3) sadly, the lighting cycles wildly in hockey, and even doing a white balance for jpg is risky. no matter which was you go, you will have to scrutinize the wb of all keepers. i use c1 because i can be very efficient with it.
3) as a mac user, i've long used photo mechanic.
4) sales are printed through photoshop, but contact sheets can be done with pm. mostly the shots go on the web gallery for accesible viewing by all.
5) no staff so no printing on site - everyone leaves when the game is over!
good luck! just keep your eye on the puck!!

Asher I've never shot hockey so I will defer to Marian on that specific sport. I have a notion though that the space is somewhat larger than basketball, but considerably smaller than soccer. I would have guessed that the 300 would most often be too much lens, and Marian has confirmed that.

I should think the 70-200 would be perfect if there's enough light for f/2.8 at 1/400. If not, then you'll have to resort to one or more of the 85 f/1.8, 135 f/2 or 200 f/1.8 — or maybe if you're close to the net, a 50mm for wider shots.

And Marian's no doubt right about the cycling lights if my basketball experience is any indication. Shooting RAW will be very helpful here. I tend to disagree with her exposure advice though — I would go manual in a situation like that. Unless the light is exceptionally good, you'll probably be shooting wide open at 1/400 and either ISO 1600 or 3200.

Beyond this, I refer you to my Sports Basics and RAW Workflow for Sports Shooters.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Thanks very much for the input so far. My first photographer I asked uses 300 mm 2.8 only! That's because people seem to like their kids shot tight!

There's 10 feet of glass and one needs a ladder/plattform.

Anyway, it now seems there are two approaches. I guess with the 1DII there's plenty detail that one can shoot with the 70-200, just use part of the picture and crop tightly if needed.

What size files do you use? Surely you all use jpg only and have no time for RAW files? That would really slow things down, especially if one has to print on site and burn CD's.

Marion and Nill, do you have a screen on site where people can view their pics or a board with sample prints and posters? Or else is this already organised with the parents and coaches? IOW, do you not lose sales not selling at the site?

Asher

i can only fantasize about white balance at hockey in jpg...i shoot raw, and some of my shots are ok, others in the same sequence will be pinkish. i think if you're selling a sequence they all need to look the same, so that's part of the reason for raw for me. and the cycling lights make a standard white balance unsuccessful for me. Nill's two referenced writings are very good, and pretty much lay it out for you.
the ladder-over-the-glass is a good technique. i also shoot through the glass to get ice-level shots. these are great when they work and very exciting, however the trick is to find a decent section of glass. sometimes they come out a bit cloudy and sometimes the focus takes an extra split second through the glass though. when up on the ladder there is a space in the immediate vicinity below me where the shot angles are too much (or at least an unusual angle and sometimes too close), so keep that in mind when you place the ladder.
can you bring a second body with the 300 on it? you seem to be determined, and, as i said, i've used it on occasion because there's nothing like a good closeup. however i wouldn't want it as my main lens for a hockey game. that game-winning-goal shot needs context to really speak for itself. as a closeup it would need a title. the game of hockey is very fast, and, in high school, very few whistles blow for clock stoppage. so your opportunity to change lenses is limited at best. (also keep track of your card usage, and change cards at a timeout anyway, that's why a zoom instead of a prime (and i'm a prime lover extraordinaire!) makes life good as you can go from end-to-end in seconds and keep recomposing as you go. i keep a second body ready with a 50mm for wide and close when i'm at the goal end but i don't use it often. part of the problem is taking the time to change cameras.
and i am solo at the games. i stay with teams through a season, so the parents know me. (i also know the parents, and know which ones buy!). my best accessory at the game is a card with the web gallery address on it. sometimes i'll preview some for a parent on the camera (or laptop) at intermission, but as Nill writes, only show the good ones!! so i don't do that very often. i might tell the parent though that i got their child's goal and to check out the gallery in a few days for it. i usually don't even download at the game. one technique that works is to deliver prints at a game because then the others see your output and immediately order for themselves.
i'm not as good as Nill that's why i use shutter priority! in manual i'd find myself screwing up, i know, as the action is so fast. i could (and sometimes do) use aperture priority and just make sure to keep an eye on shutter speed, just like i keep an eye on the aperture when shooting shutter-priority.

Asher no I don't sell on site, only on my website. And yes I'm sure I lose LOTS of sales. If I were going to sell on site I suppose it would be with a viewing station, and yes that would require jpgs. But that sounds too much like work, and I hope I never have to go there. ;-)

Actually I woke up this morning thinking about "marketing" just a little bit. What I've decided to do is take my "portfolio" — which is just a 13x19 display book with a bunch of more or less random prints in it — and stick a business card pouch inside it, and let the parents pass it around during the games and take the cards. If nothing else I bet seeing the impact of larger prints will get me a few more of those orders instead of the ubiquitous and boring 4x6's.

Marian I was a late convert to M, and like so many things, it's not nearly so hard or scary as it sounds. The problem with shooting Av or Tv in a gym or arena is there's so many ways for the meter to get fooled... catching a light in the background, dark and light uniforms, the ice (yikes!).

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

But if you're in a relatively evenly lit environment — gym, stadium at night, etc. — and you get your M exposure close enough, then you don't have to adjust the exposure for the uni or the lens or anything else.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Marian Howell said:

that's what i did Nill! i took a 12x18 of kid scoring a goal and showed it to the parents, who bought it immediately! more to the point, they showed it all around during the game so now i do that all the time!

Click to expand...

Basically printing one on spec every game? Hmmm... good idea. And if they don't buy it, it can go in the sample book. Hmmm...

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Asher Kelman said:

I was asked today to shoot a series of hockey games.

I realized fast that I should not have sold my 300 2.8L!

So I started to look to replace that magic lens. I was surprised to find how well people reported on the rival Sigma 300 2.8 snapping into focus and as fast with the x1.4 and x2.0.

I was surprised to discover that Tamron and Tokina compete here too.

So I wonder what you use for shooting games like soccer and hockey?


1. Camera and lens 300mm 2.8 or what?

Click to expand...

I use 1DMk2N bodies and primarily use the 200 f/1.8 for hockey (with and without a TC1.4), or the Sigma 120-300. For soccer I use a 400 f/2.8 on one body and 70-200IS on the other.

2. Focus setting Tracking or not?

Click to expand...

No sure what you are looking for here... I shoot manual, AI-Servo, focus start to the * button.

3. Image quality MP size? JPG or RAW and then convert to jpg, I dont think so!

Click to expand...

I only shoot large JPEGs... not enough time to deal with RAW at an event and orders are never for larger than 8x10... or at least they are rare.

4. Software to Ingest: Photomechanic, ivewmedia Pro or what?

Click to expand...

ExpressDigital's Darkroom Pro... and Darkroom Core for additional stations. We run this on laptops. We print proofs and have them available BEFORE the game is over, and only go to the workstations when parents have narrowed down their selection to a few images.

5. Processing printing from what software?

Click to expand...

ExpressDigital's Darkroom Pro.

6. Print on site? if so printer?

Click to expand...

Sony UPDR150s for most things, and have a Kodak 1400 for 8x10s.

Shooting so many people is arduous. Such a lot of emotions are at stake and all this get captured in the photos. Then the winning team's pics with trophy's are marvelous!

Could you shae what you use!

Asher

Click to expand...