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In Perspective, Fun: Viehhof

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief

Some of these cans are rusty. Also there's a tarpaulin which could mean that part of a picture or belongings were covered up or that was to cover the ground during a painting session.

I imagine this represents the used spray paint cans of many talented graffiti artists over a long period of time. The paints seem to be a variety of sizes and makes, so that makes me think that this is the debris from a generation or two of spraying walls.

This extreme amount of activity, uninhibited by a landowner or the authorities would make me think that there might be a wall adjacent to a railway or canal or by a long term neglected part of the property, and not in the area of the actual beer garden there!

The fact that the spent cans have been collected in a pile suggests that someone is now concerned with tidying up the place. Not the city, as they would have taken away this modest amount of mess. Rather it's the helpers in the location, working in between other tasks or else environmentally concerned citizens.

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Asher deductive abilities remind me of the great detective Sherlock Holmes.


Thanks for the compliment, Jerome. You are more than kind: this is a most generous remark!

The work shown here is not trivial by any means. It requires martialing a great deal of resources in thought, planning, copying and improving styles and repeating forms and idiom for those who are the intended audience.

These are the modern cave-pairtings of Lascaux! The people vanish and we can only device theories on why they made this art.

One of my treasured possessions is the First Prize I was handed by the Headmaster of Kilburn Grammar School in London*, a Swedish Red linen bound book, "The Complete works of Sherlock Holmes". I loved the skill at which he judged the background and attainments of each client or visitor to his rooms. He would look at their clothes, demeanor, posture, cadence of speech, logical construction os speech and dissect everything from the list on their shoes to the weight on the heals or the height of each foot as the person walked in.

I remember being impressed by recognizing not only that the visitor was a sailor by his sway, but also that he had tabes dorsalis, of tertiary syphilis by virtue of his high steps when he walked and the distinctive sound of the soles of his shoes slapping against the floor. Given that the poor fellow had no proprioception sensation left in his joints to know where his limbs were in space, he simply lifted his feet high and the slap down informed him from the sound that he was safe to take another step.

In fact, the deductions of Sherlock Holmes helped my drive towards science, even though I had a love for Shakespearean Theater and art.

So I feel especially honored and amused that you'd designate my thoughts - about a pile of essentially garbage - as reminding you of the great detective himself!

Asher


*Now closed as, to the Labor party socialists, "Grammar Schools" for those with the best academic achievement in an exam at age 11, created elitism. To the socialists, such schools for the very brightest kids, seemed too much like the very exclusive, landed gentry-dominated "Public Schools" of Eaton and Harrow, which probably bred conservative voters!
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I remember being impressed by recognizing not only that the visitor was a sailor by his sway, but also that he had tabes dorsalis, of tertiary syphilis by virtue of his high steps when he walked and the distinctive sound of the soles of his shoes slapping against the floor.

I had the curiosity to check about tabes dorsalis. Did you know that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle completed his doctorate on that exact disease?

 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Asher,

One of my treasured possessions is the First Prize I was handed by the Headmaster of Kilburn Grammar School in London*, a Swedish Red linen bound book, "The Complete works of Sherlock Holmes". I loved the skill at which he judged the background and attainments of each client or visitor to his rooms. He would look at their clothes, demeanor, posture, cadence of speech, logical construction os speech and dissect everything from the list on their shoes to the weight on the heals or the height of each foot as the person walked in.

I remember being impressed by recognizing not only that the visitor was a sailor by his sway, but also that he had tabes dorsalis, of tertiary syphilis by virtue of his high steps when he walked and the distinctive sound of the soles of his shoes slapping against the floor. Given that the poor fellow had no proprioception sensation left in his joints to know where his limbs were in space, he simply lifted his feet high and the slap down informed him from the sound that he was safe to take another step.

A wondrous story. Thanks so much for sharing that.

*Now closed as, to the Labor party socialists, "Grammar Schools" for those with the best academic achievement in an exam at age 11, created elitism. To the socialists, such schools for the very brightest kids, seemed too much like the very exclusive, landed gentry-dominated "Public Schools" of Eaton and Harrow, which probably bred conservative voters!

It is this sort of thing about which today I would say, "it embarrasses me to be a political liberal." I used to shudder at the extreme happenings at Berkeley and such.

Bizarrely, today in the US, it is the conservatives who decry "elitism", and in fact use stimulated ignorance as a a political tool. Of course, most of them have very good educations (or at least went to good schools; not all paid any attention), but they don't let that get in the road of their political strategy.

So when we ask, "can senator so-and-so possibly believe that the world was created in six days, about 10,000 years ago' (must have been a helluva shock to the people living at that time up the road in La Luz!), the answer is, "No, of course he doesn't." And the fellow who played Dr. House in the TV series doesn't have a limp.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I had the curiosity to check about tabes dorsalis. Did you know that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle completed his doctorate on that exact disease?



So who is their audience, Jerome? Is this seen from a passing highway, railway yard or what? What kind of math is there in the investment of energy - the more isolated the place is, the less likely the artist will be stopped in the process of painting but the less chance he/she has of being appreciated!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
So who is their audience, Jerome? Is this seen from a passing highway, railway yard or what? What kind of math is there in the investment of energy - the more isolated the place is, the less likely the artist will be stopped in the process of painting but the less chance he/she has of being appreciated!

That is a very good question.

Banksy said: "the people who run our cities dont understand graffiti because they think nothing has the right to exist unless it makes a profit".

Your question above is actually "what profit are these artists making?" (a "profit" can be defined in terms of money but also in terms of appreciation, growing reputation, etc...). The answer appears to be that these artists are not making much "profit", yet keep producing paintings. Therefore, the answer is that these people are motivated by something else than profit.

Coming back to Banksy citation, since the people who run our cities place profit at the center of their interests, they will systematically chose whatever lines maximises profit. It helps that they get their cut of the profit, of course. Since there is little profit in graffiti, they will not allow it. Since Coca-cola pays well, they will allow billboards.

The reasoning can be applied to any art form.

 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
That is a very good question.

Banksy said: "the people who run our cities dont understand graffiti because they think nothing has the right to exist unless it makes a profit".

Your question above is actually "what profit are these artists making?" (a "profit" can be defined in terms of money but also in terms of appreciation, growing reputation, etc...). The answer appears to be that these artists are not making much "profit", yet keep producing paintings. Therefore, the answer is that these people are motivated by something else than profit.

Coming back to Banksy citation, since the people who run our cities place profit at the center of their interests, they will systematically chose whatever lines maximises profit. It helps that they get their cut of the profit, of course. Since there is little profit in graffiti, they will not allow it. Since Coca-cola pays well, they will allow billboards.

The reasoning can be applied to any art form.


I meant benefit to themselves as an artist. For example, a prisoner might amuse himself making art on his cell walls. But what does the graffiti artist consider in his choice of place to spend so much effort.

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I meant benefit to themselves as an artist. For example, a prisoner might amuse himself making art on his cell walls. But what does the graffiti artist consider in his choice of place to spend so much effort.

Let me phrase it in more direct terms, then: if you are not making a profit for us, do not litter our walls with your paint or we'll get the police after you. But since we are magnanimous, you may play with paint where nobody cares. We will be so amused to watch you fight to paint over someone's else creation to get some space for a new one.


 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Let me phrase it in more direct terms, then: if you are not making a profit for us, do not litter our walls with your paint or we'll get the police after you. But since we are magnanimous, you may play with paint where nobody cares. We will be so amused to watch you fight to paint over someone's else creation to get some space for a new one.




So, Jerome,

What are the rules? They wait until that artist no longer is seen around town, intimidate him/her or what? It would seem to me a risky proposition to paint over such a lot of intensive artwork and then just hope that wouldn't be itself painted over the next week!

So is this near some freeway or other passthrough that allows the work to be seen by a lot of people?

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
What are the rules? They wait until that artist no longer is seen around town, intimidate him/her or what? It would seem to me a risky proposition to paint over such a lot of intensive artwork and then just hope that wouldn't be itself painted over the next week!

I don't know what the rules are, but some paintings are painted over within a short time indeed.

So is this near some freeway or other passthrough that allows the work to be seen by a lot of people?

No, not really. You don't see this unless you know the place and go there on purpose. There is a wall nearby which is visible from a street, but it is not a major street.

The place is called "Viehhof", which would translate to "cattle courtyard". It is where people used to bring cattle to be sold to the nearby slaughterhouse. Because the way cattle and meat are sold has changed, the place is not really needed any more for cattle and is not used. The nearby train track is mainly used for freight trains, not for passenger trains.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Let me show how often the walls are painted over. I was there on the 17th and I went back today, the 24th. So it has just been seven days.


I already posted that general view, taken on the 17th:


If you look carefully, you'll see a section of wall which has just been painted over in off-white. Left to it are three large paintings, then the end of the wall with the yellow head.

Now after 7 days:


The three large paintings are just being painted over, the off-white new painting is now two pieces.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Let us have a closer look at that off-white new painting from last week:


Seven days later, this is the same section of the wall:


If you look carefully, you'll find out that the original piece has already been painted over with a large tag, and that this large tag is already painted over with two different crude tags. I have no idea how the first piece looked like.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Let me show another example. This was a very impressive piece last week, next to the pile of spray cans.


If you look carefully, you'll also see that it has been crudely tagged over three times.

This is how the same wall looked like today:


It has been painted over with a large tag. But if you look carefully, you'll find out that the piece under that tag is in the same colours as last week's painting, but it is a completely different design. So it has been painted over at least twice.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This is so impressive, Jerome! Wonderful observation and I think great material for an art book as well as an academic paper. Any chance you could talk to the next guys that paint this over again? Do they know the previous artists? Did they make any of these layers. Meaning of symbols? Expectations? Day job is any, opinions on art and society and so much more!

I am so moved by the richness, quality and worth of these paintings huge efforts that are made, knowing they are so transient and seen by so few!

Obviously, these are very special "canvasses" that aren't likely possible in their own home spaces. So one could think that part of the advantage is just feeding their skill, drive and obsession in their hobby.

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Asher, I am pretty sure that there are graffiti where you live. Maybe you could try to meet some people for discussion in your city?

Before you meet them and because street art is a relatively rigid culture with well defined branches, may I suggest reading:
the widipedia page on the subject (you may also want to read the French version, which is better)
some academic research on the subject?
 

Michael Nagel

Well-known member
Hello Jerome,

This is an interesting series. Viehhof is a place I haven't ventured yet - something on my to do list.

On the 'rules' for painting over existing works:
The closest to a rule I have ever heard of is that when a work is replaced, it must be replaced with something better than before.
Better is of course pretty subjective here.

In other places I have seen works staying for a long time (years!) while some other works next to these were regularly painted over. Reputation of the artists plays a role here too I think.

The ones shown here were still there last time I checked (few weeks ago) and 'Easy on my mind' seems to be from 2013.

'Connected' is the first picture shown in the above linked post and here you can see that it did not get painted over (left of picture).

Did you talk to the people you met?

I only had brief contact to some (not from Munich) through flickr, but it would be interesting to have some ties here.

Best regards,
Michael
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jerome,

I'm in awe of this painting as a work of art and as a personal enterprise. I'd hope it is respected enough to stand for a while.

I have started to read about Los Angeles wall art and Graffitti and realize that there are a lot of different reasons for the work. Some are gang-tagging, marking territory and representing power, others are statements of some sort and then there's art representing some community aspiration or pride and much more. Some artist's have risen to gallery fame with works selling for handsome amounts, elevating the painter from struggling artist to gallery darlings. I have so much to learn, but at least I know that!

However, I doubt that anything could intrigue me more than the relatively small set of competing artists who paint and repaint over the art on the walls here at Viehhoff. In a way, this too is a cattle yard with living breathing works of art competing for space and waiting in line to be slaughtered!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I have started to read about Los Angeles wall art and Graffitti and realize that there are a lot of different reasons for the work. Some are gang-tagging, marking territory and representing power, others are statements of some sort and then there's art representing some community aspiration or pride and much more. Some artist's have risen to gallery fame with works selling for handsome amounts, elevating the painter from struggling artist to gallery darlings. I have so much to learn, but at least I know that!


We all have much to learn: ἕν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα (I know one thing: that I know nothing).

 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief

As an observer, Jerome, do you get attached to certain works and then get some personal stake in wishing and hoping for its survival? Have you developed any special attachments where you seek out "old friends" to confirm they're still alive?

Or are you detached and observe with equanimity?

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
As an observer, Jerome, do you get attached to certain works and then get some personal stake in wishing and hoping for its survival?

Some works impress me more than others, like the one you cited in the message above:


I was there on saturday, and it had already been replaced:

 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jerome,

These guys seem oblivious of retribution or consequences? I know I'd be pretty miffed if my 30 hours of painting had been wiped out in a morning coat of white!

I wonder what their logic is. After all, they know full well that their picture is not going to stay their long. Are they just playing a game with each other and do this with equanimity?

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
These guys seem oblivious of retribution or consequences? I know I'd be pretty miffed if my 30 hours of painting had been wiped out in a morning coat of white!

I wonder what their logic is. After all, they know full well that their picture is not going to stay their long. Are they just playing a game with each other and do this with equanimity?

I really don't know. I fear that they believe that they have no other place to practice their art than these walls and with some reasons. The local police has caught wild taggers before.
 
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