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  #1  
Old October 18th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Default Victoria’s Secret Revealed - swimsuit retouch

Hi Folks,

I found this instructive link about a number of before and after retouch images:
http://fstoppers.com/victorias-secret-revealed-unretouched-vs-retouched-photos

Cheers,
Bart
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  #2  
Old October 18th, 2012, 06:00 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi Folks,

I found this instructive link about a number of before and after retouch images:
http://fstoppers.com/victorias-secret-revealed-unretouched-vs-retouched-photos

Cheers,
Bart
I'm actually surprised by the quality of the lighting of the skin! It's amazing to me that a VS model would be taken in the shadow, (pun not intended).

It's a lot of work. I wonder how many of the changes, (besides the obvious one of underwear lines, skin color and lighting), are really significant in their ad campaigns. I'd venture to say that most of the skin work is just their custom and I doubt it really has any effect one way or another. when a girl is already 11/10, 11.01 is hardly noticeable, LOL!

Asher
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Last edited by Asher Kelman; October 19th, 2012 at 01:53 AM.
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  #3  
Old October 18th, 2012, 06:09 PM
Maggie Terlecki Maggie Terlecki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi Folks,

I found this instructive link about a number of before and after retouch images:
http://fstoppers.com/victorias-secret-revealed-unretouched-vs-retouched-photos

Cheers,
Bart
Bart,

I think the edits done here are quite fine, in my opinion. I don't think they did anything drastic and pretty standard that any photographer would do especially since they are swimsuits.

She has distinct frown lines between her brows and probably because of the reflection of the sun on the sand. They were not flattering and I'm sure she normally doesn't have them. Oddly enough, the light on the originals is pretty bleh!

As for the little bulge of skin on the sides, I would think to help make the breast look much lifted, they would prefer to put the model in a slightly smaller bra. That could create a bit of spillage on the side, but that may be a reason someone wouldn't buy the suit, thinking it was ill-fitting. As for the straps, they usually sell these with straps that are removable. Much easier to Ps them out than add some back in.

The girl on her own is beautiful and they really didn't anything to make her bustier or skinnier. Seems like very standard work they probably do on every single shot.
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  #4  
Old October 18th, 2012, 10:54 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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That's nothing compared to H&M who simply uses computer-generated bodies and pastes a model's head on them.
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  #5  
Old October 19th, 2012, 12:01 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
That's nothing compared to H&M who simply uses computer-generated bodies and pastes a model's head on them.
Amazing that model # 2 looks totally fake and they still use that instead of paying a real person! Then models #3 and #4 share identical bodies with different added heads. These look remarkably real!

I can see that for a busy catalog house, it's probably far easier to use the fake models. I think these may even be actual plastic storefront realistic models and then real heads are used. That would be so easy to organize! All one would need is to have lots of headshots and that's so easy. Clothes don't need to be laundered after use! Models don't have to be fed!

Asher
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  #6  
Old October 19th, 2012, 12:18 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Models don't have to be fed!
Well... if you allow me sarcasm, real models don't look as if they are being fed either. It can't be that expensive.

Yes, H&M uses plastic storefront mannequins and changes the skin with a proprietary software.
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  #7  
Old October 19th, 2012, 01:47 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
I'm actually surprised by the quality of the lighting of the skin! It's amazing to me that a VS model would be taken in the shadow, (pun not intended).

It's a lot of work. I wonder how many of the changes, (besides the obvious one of underwear lines, skin color and lighting), are really significant in their ad campaigns. I'd venture to say that most of the skin work is just their custom and I doubt it really has any effect one way or another. when a girl is already 11/10, 11.01 is hardly noticeable, LOL!
Hi Asher,

It's important to note that these images/retouches are not necessarily intended to make the model look good, but to sell more products. That means that most of the retouch is aimed at removing distractions, and potentially unflattering features caused by the product. Of course there is a subliminal message that says that one can look good when using product 'x', but they don't want to discourage the target audience either by setting an unreachable goal.

I agree with Maggie that the lighting is not very elaborate, it seems. Part of that apparently comes from the photographer's style of photography. The lack of clearly visible catchlights in the eyes suggests that there was no significant amount of fill flash from the front used.

We also need to consider that the before images were not necessarily the starting material for retouch, they were just accidentally posted on a publicly accessible site. The differences do show what they were looking for to achieve, and how much or little they needed to do to get there.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #8  
Old October 21st, 2012, 10:34 AM
Jarmo Juntunen Jarmo Juntunen is offline
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Thank you for this thread! This is the kind of photography that leaves me totally cold. Not that it really is aimed at rising any other emotions than the need to buy, but still... so cold, so void of human feel.
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  #9  
Old October 21st, 2012, 10:54 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Originally Posted by Jarmo Juntunen View Post
Thank you for this thread! This is the kind of photography that leaves me totally cold. Not that it really is aimed at rising any other emotions than the need to buy, but still... so cold, so void of human feel.
Well, Jarmo, there's a different way of looking at this. I think the use of mannequins for art can help tell us about our culture when we, not the stores use them satirically.

"A mannequin named Bonnie, standing with one hand rammed through the glass of Bonwit Teller window, answers questions from people on the street; a male mannequin in a window at Barneys towers menacingly above a black leopard and a reclining female mannequin; mannequins dressed as call girls catch a last few winks in an early-morning bedroom scene staged at Henri Bendel--show-window "theatre" can be provocative, shocking, wicked, delightful, amusing." is from a synopsis on Sarah Schneider's book, "Vital Mummies: Performance Art and the Store-window Mannequin" available for $1 to $7 here!

Man Ray and Helmut Newton used mannequins in their photography this way. This mildly NSFW link is very informative and helpful.

What's helpful for us is that you do not have to pay the model, secure a chaperone, provide food or wait for her to turn up! She also doesn't need a 15 minutes break every hour. Moreover, you can actually move her leg or arm or rotate her any way you please without stepping over boundaries of etiquette or decency! Manequins are also good just to get experience with your lighting and composition and use as a sketching medium. If the image is perfect and you need a real head, or a second live person just do it! Hmm, that's an idea I might consider for myself! Why not if the picture works for you perfectly!

Asher
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Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
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  #10  
Old October 21st, 2012, 11:19 AM
Jarmo Juntunen Jarmo Juntunen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Well, Jarmo, there's a different way of looking at this. I think the use of mannequins for art can help tell us about our culture when we, not the stores use them satirically.

"A mannequin named Bonnie, standing with one hand rammed through the glass of Bonwit Teller window, answers questions from people on the street; a male mannequin in a window at Barneys towers menacingly above a black leopard and a reclining female mannequin; mannequins dressed as call girls catch a last few winks in an early-morning bedroom scene staged at Henri Bendel--show-window "theatre" can be provocative, shocking, wicked, delightful, amusing." is from a synopsis on Sarah Schneider's book, "Vital Mummies: Performance Art and the Store-window Mannequin" available for $1 to $7 here!

Man Ray and Helmut Newton used mannequins in their photography this way. This mildly NSFW link is very informative and helpful.

What's helpful for us is that you do not have to pay the model, secure a chaperone, provide food or wait for her to turn up! She also doesn't need a 15 minutes break every hour. Moreover, you can actually move her leg or arm or rotate her any way you please without stepping over boundaries of etiquette or decency! Manequins are also good just to get experience with your lighting and composition and use as a sketching medium. If the image is perfect and you need a real head, or a second live person just do it! Hmm, that's an idea I might consider for myself! Why not if the picture works for you perfectly!

Asher
True, Asher. I was being sloppy, as usual. The cold picture comment was aimed at the original post, the retouched swimsuit pictures. H&M, Victoria's secret etc.. who cares? We get these ads with all the other junk mail, maybe take one look and throw them away. That's the kind of photography I have no need for.

BTW, what happened to the mannequin thread here at OPF? Any new entries?
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  #11  
Old November 6th, 2012, 01:21 PM
Lukasz Fojcik Lukasz Fojcik is offline
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Default REtouch

Fashion don't need aggressive retouch. Product or glamour, cosmetics, hair - yes. I work with fashion magazines and they don't want to perfect skin or light. They prefer fist look effect. Emotion.
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