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  #1  
Old October 6th, 2009, 05:23 AM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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Default Anonymising people in interior

I' ve to anonymize about 50 people in a interior - how is it done best in PS?
Thinking about blur etc.

It's quite easy with just a few persons - but with 50?

The stupid thing is, that people are required in the shot, but they should be not seen personally, but as humans. You can't run with a model release after 50 people!

This issue is getting worse, every day.

You might understand, that I can't show the image ^^
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  #2  
Old October 6th, 2009, 05:33 AM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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Still, a sample:

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  #3  
Old October 6th, 2009, 05:33 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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I'd probably select each face using the oval selection tool in PS and add a blur or mosaic filter. Repeat x 50 ;-). I am curious what others might come up with.
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  #4  
Old October 6th, 2009, 07:30 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Fontana View Post
I' ve to anonymize about 50 people in a interior ...
Hi Michael,

Why? I can think of reasons, e.g. privacy (when this is the interior of a 'special club'), but I don't want to proceed on my assumption alone. Also, is this for a shoot you have already done, or is it planned?

Cheers,
Bart
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  #5  
Old October 6th, 2009, 07:58 AM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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Hi Bart

I haven't change to a event photogr... it's not a club but the restaurant in a research building. I' ve done that photo already, actually it's the one I did link. I'm looking for a easy solution right now, but I'm thinking a bit into the future:

privacy is becoming a huge issue - sometimes a bit silly, when people who spread all their privacy in facebook don't even want to be on photos far away.... or people don't want to move out of a photo - just to the next table, but insist that you don't make a photo.

It's the way it is, but I'm looking for a easy solution in PS...

I remember a photographer-friend to have last summer 2 assistants only for running after people and getting the modell releases.

Cem, you named it.
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  #6  
Old October 6th, 2009, 08:54 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Fontana View Post
Hi Bart

I haven't change to a event photogr... it's not a club but the restaurant in a research building. I' ve done that photo already, actually it's the one I did link. I'm looking for a easy solution right now, but I'm thinking a bit into the future:

privacy is becoming a huge issue - sometimes a bit silly, when people who spread all their privacy in facebook don't even want to be on photos far away.... or people don't want to move out of a photo - just to the next table, but insist that you don't make a photo.
A model release is not required in such a case.

However, if you feel you need to capitulate ..., for future projects, long exposures should blur most faces beyond recognition. You could also take 2 exposures, and use the differences (= motion) as a mask for a blurred layer.

If you have software that can make a median average from 3 or more images, then the blur of movement can be automatic. It is also possible to completely remove moving objects/subjects form a scene if their movement is enough between the 3 images.

Quote:
It's the way it is, but I'm looking for a easy solution in PS...
I doubt if there are really easy solutions, but let's see what others come up with.

For an existing image, I'd create a duplicate layer with a black mask. Now there are several ways to proceed. With the mask selected you can e.g. paint with a brush (just large enough to cover eyes to nose) with white on the mask where the faces are, select the layer itself (not the mask), and blur it (all faces at the same time).

Alternatively you can try to select the faces by color (mostly Yellow), and blur the selection. How well that works depends on the other colors in the scene.

Depending on the lighting and nationalities, you'd perhaps be able and produce a better skin tone selection from a copy of the image, convert to Lab mode, and use the "Select|Color range..." on the a and/or b color layers only (maybe delete the L channel). Save the selection, and copy it to your original, then blur the selection. Perhaps a conversion to CMYK will give you a layer that provides a better starting point for a facial mask/selection than a Lab mode conversion.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #7  
Old October 6th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Hi Michael,

Method A, the US option: a notice which says that "There is a photograph being taken today for an architectural advertisement and if you are here between these hours you might be included and then you have given consent".

The second method is what I'd go for:

This is what I'd do. first take the picture with no people in it at a time convenient to you. Mark the spot exactly and height of tripod. Use real view on monitor to match pictures. Then another picture with 6-8 people who have given consent in front of the crowd others and focus on them. DOF limited to naturally obfuscate identities in the crowd. Now reveal the nearest parts of the architecture for extreme clarity. The end result is an apparently totally natural picture with a good 3D depth feeling.

I hope this might be worth consideration.

Asher
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  #8  
Old October 6th, 2009, 09:54 AM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
A model release is not required in such a case.
Its not me deciding, nor you, unfortunatly...
it's not even a add, but the archi-assignement includes photos with people. IMO its correct to have people in buildings, in photos as well - the problem is that they are becoming more complex.

Quote:
However, if you feel you need to capitulate ..., for future projects, long exposures should blur most faces beyond recognition. You could also take 2 exposures, and use the differences (= motion) as a mask for a blurred layer.
I knew that one - but if some are sitting and some are walking.... just blurring all makes it a bit weird, so' I've been using a mix of blur+ the Liquify-filter (Hopefully that expression is correct.)


Quote:
If you have software that can make a median average from 3 or more images, then the blur of movement can be automatic. It is also possible to completely remove moving objects/subjects form a scene if their movement is enough between the 3 images.
That's a potential solution, hmm unfortunatly, with fusing, that's a lot of files.

Quote:
I doubt if there are really easy solutions, but let's see what others come up with.

For an existing image, I'd create a duplicate layer with a black mask. Now there are several ways to proceed. With the mask selected you can e.g. paint with a brush (just large enough to cover eyes to nose) with white on the mask where the faces are, select the layer itself (not the mask), and blur it (all faces at the same time). Bart
Bluring all in the same amount makes it dull....
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Last edited by Michael Fontana; October 6th, 2009 at 11:08 AM.
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  #9  
Old October 6th, 2009, 11:08 AM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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yep, radial blur, on a layer with opacity from about 50 - 80 % is the solution for the photos already taken, it looks much more photolike than any other filter, like Gausssian blur, etc. !

Plus some copy and paste from some spare shots from the same scene...
It's really important to use multiple tools, to avoid one tool to be applied for all, that will look ugly and generic.

It took now more than one hour just to get the 50 people anoymised, for one picture only.

Asher:
- Methode A: I agree, but you need 2 assistant.
- Plan B is fine, when you have enough time to get everything organised, which hasn't been the actual case.
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  #10  
Old October 6th, 2009, 01:53 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Michael,

In this sample, the guys on the left can be removed. Of the others maybe 40% are facing away from the camera. so is it such a big task as all the faces might not need being touched.

Asher
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  #11  
Old October 6th, 2009, 03:09 PM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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Good evening Asher

I started counting now, its 74 persons in that image, lets say half of it needed to be retouched...
I didn't cared much for that hour, but I fear that privacy-thing might get worse - if it has to be done on all future shots on that site it's better to learn how to avoid it, or to know how retouche it fast.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 04:30 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Why can't you have them bring a few extras to stand in the front? That could always be done on short notice and then the others could simple be out of focus with Focus Magic.

Asher
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  #13  
Old October 6th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Fontana View Post
Good evening Asher

I started counting now, its 74 persons in that image, lets say half of it needed to be retouched...
I didn't cared much for that hour, but I fear that privacy-thing might get worse - if it has to be done on all future shots on that site it's better to learn how to avoid it, or to know how retouche it fast.
Avoiding it would be the sane approach, if it happens more often. As Nicolas so aptly says "the customer doesn't pay for postprocessing" (unless you can somehow charge them for it).

In principle it should be possible to write a program to do most of that almost automatically, based on multiple exposures. Maybe I should make such a commercial software if there is enough/growing demand. Hmm, another project.

Cheers,
Bart
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Old October 6th, 2009, 05:11 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Is the object to show that people are actually enjoying the place? In the buildings where I photograph, there is some cooperation if one makes arrangements. I don't understand why one cannot simply start taking pictures at 7 a.m to get the place empty and then another shot with the people there but OOF! One more image with the staff of the client or friends in the foreground. There must be a local "One model Place" or whatever to get stand-ins with consent. One day shoot headshots of male and female models, then have them "on call" for your work for free in return. Tell them for each shoot for your work, you'll give them another 30 minutes of head shots. You could easily have a stable of volunteers to take up the front positions after you initial blurred shop of the unsigned folk!

Asher
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  #15  
Old October 7th, 2009, 03:01 AM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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Asher and Bart

its a bit more complex than seen from outside, for many reasons, like access - its a research building, you just can't bring people in, that easy - not the owner of the building is running the restaurant, but another company; a formal photo permission is required, as well, etc...

You might go with the strategy to organise that ahead - ending up spending a full day just for that, - or you exercise yourself in the art of improvisation, which has been my favorite so far, I once needed three badges on that site.... ^^

As Nicolas so aptly says "the customer doesn't pay for postprocessing
yep, Bart, I am thinking about the calculation of kinda anonymizer- fee, for that parth of post, if they really want it.

Basically, I have to discuss with the client that developement of enhanced privacy; while I can understand it, we have to find a way to deal with.... and OPF is a very good preparation for it as we look at all options, thanks!

Yes Asher, in a restaurant of that size, I find it interesting and important to have people in; it's not a fabrication hall with robots producing some stuff, but it's build for people! It's not required on all architecture photos, but that room is just the frame for the people's enjoyment.

I tried to show this in that photo as well, as floor, ceiling and the walls at left and right are just frames of the big hall - that one beeing the frame for the poeple at the center. I don't know if this is understandable...
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  #16  
Old October 7th, 2009, 12:54 PM
Luiz Vasconcellos Luiz Vasconcellos is offline
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I only know 2 ways, by hand or by median staking mode

http://www.creativetechs.com/iq/phot...e_remover.html
http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS3StackModeSM.mov
http://www.howcast.com/videos/54805-...om-Photographs
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  #17  
Old October 23rd, 2009, 04:22 PM
David Thomasson David Thomasson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Fontana View Post
Its not me deciding, nor you, unfortunatly...
Then who is deciding? I'm not convinced that you have a legal obligation to get a model release from everyone in the picture. Who are the people? What is the occasion? What will be done with the picture?

First make sure you do need a release. Then tackle the problem you describe.
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  #18  
Old October 23rd, 2009, 07:05 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Thomasson View Post
Then who is deciding? I'm not convinced that you have a legal obligation to get a model release from everyone in the picture. Who are the people? What is the occasion? What will be done with the picture?

First make sure you do need a release. Then tackle the problem you describe.
Hi David,

Michael is in Switizerland. Even the flies there wash there hands after going to the toilet. The Swiss are very ordered. I too believe one can get away with things, doing as one wishes and it is often true that no one cares. However, Michael knows his paying clients and there's no point arguing with what they want. I can just imagine that the client said that that's what they need.

Asher

BTW, I've taken a trip to visit your website and I commend you on your retouching. It's useful to have resources here! I hope you will offer some tips when appropriate. Hair, dry lips and skin are always issues!
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