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  #1  
Old November 4th, 2006, 04:54 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Default Digital face beautification

I'm not sure whether to start this thead here or in the 'provocative thoughts' section, but I'd like to provoke some opinions on the direction this software is taking us anyway.

Is it the direction we're ultimately going? What is beauty? How much software assistence beyond blemish removal is tolerable? Do you currently in practice move eyebrows, re-angle eyes, change the shape of heads, etc., etc., ...

Bart

Last edited by Bart_van_der_Wolf; March 17th, 2011 at 10:34 AM. Reason: updated link
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  #2  
Old November 4th, 2006, 11:49 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Bart,

We're there already!

All we're talking about here is the ability to do it fast and with economy.

Such software, however, makes a huge difference to the economy of altering thousands of sequential images in videos, although the software works here on frontal images. I expect other software right now is or will be capable of doing that once the whole head is first digitzed from multiple angles.

In dating services the pictures posted are mostly retouched. That of course is rather dishonest. But so is makeup! Worse, lip enhancement, breast surgery and other beautification is all a fraud to attact a mate.

For movie stars, that's just part of the job! We expect to see our heroes in near perfection!

What is really unfair is when a marriage is "arranged". The young people have to rely on the choices of the parents. This may involve other side deals or be related to settling an old debt or rivalry. The girl may be covered up until after the marriage!

The guy is expecting an especially attractive match and when the veil is lifted for the first time, it's too late to back out!!

Asher

Last edited by Asher Kelman; November 4th, 2006 at 03:35 PM.
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  #3  
Old November 4th, 2006, 03:04 PM
Ivan Garcia Ivan Garcia is offline
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Quote:
The guy is expecting an especially attractive match and when the veil is lifted for the first time, it's too late to back out!!
Mmm... I find that a couple of beers does wonders. Several and you will find a gorilla attractive I wonder if that is the reason they serve large glasses of wine at every art gallery. Lol (obviously joking)
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  #4  
Old November 5th, 2006, 02:47 AM
Tim Armes Tim Armes is offline
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Interesting find Bart,

I'm impressed by the consistency of the results from purely automated software.
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  #5  
Old November 5th, 2006, 04:58 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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Its not very clear how much of it is automated, it seems to merely shift facial features to preferred locations, based on training of pre-selected ideals. There have been many attempts before. They will probably get it right at about the same time all models are computer generated. Now, if it were incoporated into the fuji camera, which touts its 'face detection technology', then it may be another camera selling gimmick.

Best wishes,

Ray
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  #6  
Old November 5th, 2006, 02:44 PM
Kevin Bjorke Kevin Bjorke is offline
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I know these guys a wee bit, since I was their host/emcee during siggraph 2006 and a member of the committee that brought them to Boston to show this technology.

There are plenty of restrictions to the method, particularly the dependance on a head-on-view. They caught a lot of initial politico-flak for only using female models as the initial database.

The process is more expensive than beer, which in adequate supply beautifies from all angles (did I say that?).

Truthfully, I expect such tech to show up in ID photos, perhaps as a value-add ("do you want the regular driver's license, or for $5 extra you can have the prettified one?"). A fascinating aspect of what they have done, and one that I think is somewhat overlooked, is that in many cases, maybe most cases, the "beautified" image is still recognizable as the same person. The implications for the study of recognition, and the study of the psychological idealization of our viewing of others, are broad. For an image of someone we like or love, often the ideal beautified face is the one we have in our mind's eye anyway. Why pooh-pooh the ability to more-easily make this a concrete realization?

--

As an aside, I have pestered them to "mis-apply" their datasets to other sorts of faces, such as cartoon characters or dogs. So far no luck
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Old November 13th, 2008, 02:51 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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So where are we up to in skin beautification. What software do you use and what are your sources for tips and tools?

Asher
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Old November 13th, 2008, 03:34 PM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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Well - we had a similar discussion a while ago:

No wonder our perception of beauty is distorted
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  #9  
Old November 13th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Fontana View Post
Well - we had a similar discussion a while ago:

No wonder our perception of beauty is distorted
Yes, Michael,

I remember that! It's so impressive. Very talented team! For sure, it's not without social and moral regrets! BTW, Dove™ is rather hypocritical since it shows young beautiful women with flawless skin who use their products. Putting all that aside, still we'd really like to see sources for those secrets of high end retouching.

Asher
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  #10  
Old August 7th, 2009, 03:46 AM
Leonardo Boher Leonardo Boher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Garcia View Post
Mmm... I find that a couple of beers does wonders. Several and you will find a gorilla attractive I wonder if that is the reason they serve large glasses of wine at every art gallery. Lol (obviously joking)
HAhahah!!! You got a point there...
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  #11  
Old August 7th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Kathy Rappaport Kathy Rappaport is offline
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Default Headshots

Funny this popped up. I bought Portrait Professional and have been playing with the features. I like it a lot but find that you need to use PS first because it mars the image if you use it the other way around. I am editing a headshot where the subject did her own makeup and getting the skin even with some mascara smears is not so easy.
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  #12  
Old February 13th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Ben Jones Ben Jones is offline
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Depending on what I think is needed, I pretty much take license with my subjects. If they have a little roll around the tummy, the Liquify tool works wonders. If one breast looks considerably smaller than the other due to the pose or lens choice, the Balloon tool comes to her rescue. Last year I photographed a young lady that had eyes of noticably different sizes. It seems these small differences that almost no one recognizes in "real life" become big differences in a photograph, so I copied her big eye, and the surrounding area, flipped it, placed it over the small eye, erased what needed to be erased in order to blend them, then I changed the catchlight in the reversed eye, and her mother loved it so much she bought a 16 x 20 of it to hang over the fireplace. She never asked if I "did anything" to her daughter's face, and I certainly didn't volunteer any information one way or the other. :-)

Ben
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  #13  
Old February 15th, 2010, 06:06 AM
Mike Shimwell Mike Shimwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Jones View Post
Depending on what I think is needed, I pretty much take license with my subjects. If they have a little roll around the tummy, the Liquify tool works wonders. If one breast looks considerably smaller than the other due to the pose or lens choice, the Balloon tool comes to her rescue. Last year I photographed a young lady that had eyes of noticably different sizes. It seems these small differences that almost no one recognizes in "real life" become big differences in a photograph, so I copied her big eye, and the surrounding area, flipped it, placed it over the small eye, erased what needed to be erased in order to blend them, then I changed the catchlight in the reversed eye, and her mother loved it so much she bought a 16 x 20 of it to hang over the fireplace. She never asked if I "did anything" to her daughter's face, and I certainly didn't volunteer any information one way or the other. :-)

Ben
You know, I still find this disturbing. Whilst I recognise that small irregularities that are generally unremarked in 'life' are often noticeable in photographs, I'm not sure this is the best way to deal it.

Ben, this is not a personal comment, but more a reflection on what we consider 'photography' and how it relates to our self perception.


Mike
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  #14  
Old February 15th, 2010, 07:36 AM
Ben Jones Ben Jones is offline
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Mike,

I believe that if people want raw reality in their portraits they can take their point and shoot camera go out in the back yard and have someone take snapshots of what they "really" look like, but if they prefer a bit of help (or maybe even fantasy) they hire a professional photographer. The professional photographer has the training to be able to look at the subject and ascertain what attributes the subject has that should be presented "as is" to the camera, what possible areas that the subject may be displeased with that the photographer needs to minimize and what obvious problems should be hidden as much as possible. For everything else, we have Photoshop.

Ben
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