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  #1  
Old May 18th, 2010, 03:51 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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Default Thinking on selling PhaseOne P25

After about 4 years with the Mamiya P25 system I am thinking to sell it and move in to a Canon system instead.

The medium format back work fantastically in documentation of art work and installations in West Chelsea New York, I even paid for the back doing that.

Now I am in Bolivia not working in photography buy as an artist --painting--.

The Back continues to work very well, specially tethered to the Capture One program that gives you one of the best experiences in work flow and control of the work space and the actual images.

This is not a "for sale" post, but I will write down what I have in case it is what someone here is looking for ...

The body is an AFD with a Kirk vertical horizontal adapter that fits in to an ARCASWISS fast shoe.

80mm 2.8 AF MAMIYA
150MM 3.5 AF MAMIYA
45MM 2.8 AF MAMIYA
35MM 3.5 AF MAMIYA
AUTO EXTENSION TUBE NA402 MAMIYA

Phase One P25
sn CK 000544
count 13237

3 back batteries /2battery charger
hoods
FireWire cable
Pelican case black (it all fits in the case)

Capture One Pro software program can be downloaded for free and used with files capture on this back.



The direction I am mooving in to is the Canon EOS 5D Mark II with a 24mm 2.8 prime and Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0 L IS USM. Also a fast normal lens with a converter.... and a canon strobe.

I know I am not as involved in the forum as I used to be, but you are my closest photographer friends and wanted to know your opinion regarding this direction I am taking ..

thanks
Leonardo Barreto
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  #2  
Old May 18th, 2010, 06:46 PM
Mike Shimwell Mike Shimwell is offline
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Leonardo

I have no experience with the Phase back, but you are unlikely to be disappointed with the 5D2 and if you are not using the back it will only gather dust. I'd choose the lenses that you will use and only you can be the judge of that! For me a 5D and 50 or 35 would be a great setup for example.

MIke
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  #3  
Old May 19th, 2010, 07:23 AM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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Thank you Mike

My objective -since I will not be doing commission or assigned work-- would be to try and go back to prime lenses.

Wide angle zooms have multiplied in the last years. They are good for documenting a fluid situation, but you pay in weigh and size. Also when you point one of these huge zooms at a subject it tends to create a bit of a statement and influence the mood of the sitting experience. Same thing happens when you want to produce your camera from the camera bag. If it is a huge zoom the effort will be more conspicuous that a samll prime.

I like the style of photographers like Asher that go out with a fast normal and adapt the image taking to that minimalistic instrument.

I think that a perfect number would be a 24mm (full frame) since it gives you a bit more than the 28, but not as extreme as a 20.

I remember the feeling I got when I was beginning my photojournalism career -early 80's- and the photo dep. gave me a 28mm prime for my Nikon FM. It was so sharp, so small, and could be used -and should- at such close range that the feeling got imprinted in my memory until now.

So, a small 24 would be a lens to have.

Canon Wide Angle EF 24mm f/2.8 Autofocus Lens

On the long side I think that the case is different since prime lenses are not as usefull --in my opinion-- as zooms, and Image Stabilization is a welcomed advance.

But, I would go for f/4 instead of f/2.8 so that the lens is easier to transport. The D52 is a full frame system, so depth of field is shallower than DX (not as much as Medium Format)

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM Lens

Then I would probably need a 1.4 fifty and a teleconverter to make it in to a 100mm in case I want to live behind the 70-200 zoom and travel with just 2 small prime lenses. A converter converts the normal in to a very good portrait lens or short tele lens, and can be stored in a pocket or small pouch...

The only question remaining is how to sell my Mamiya PhaseOne system ...
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  #4  
Old May 19th, 2010, 11:02 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonardobarreto.com View Post
I like the style of photographers like Asher that go out with a fast normal and adapt the image taking to that minimalistic instrument.

I think that a perfect number would be a 24mm (full frame) since it gives you a bit more than the 28, but not as extreme as a 20.



But, I would go for f/4 instead of f/2.8 so that the lens is easier to transport. The D52 is a full frame system, so depth of field is shallower than DX (not as much as Medium Format)

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM Lens

Then I would probably need a 1.4 fifty and a teleconverter to make it in to a 100mm in case I want to live behind the 70-200 zoom and travel with just 2 small prime lenses. A converter converts the normal in to a very good portrait lens or short tele lens, and can be stored in a pocket or small pouch...
Leonardo,

I like your choices. The Canon 5D Mark II is very respectable for serious work. In perfect light for copying art, I'd still want your Phase One system, but even then, it can substitute for that too!

I would consider the Zeiss 28 mm since it's so rich for color and as expensive at $1283 from B&H




You can always stitch hand held overlapped mages n Photoshop with no issues if you don't move the front of the lens as the camera rotates.




Canon 24mm f 1.4 at close to real life size

OTOH, at the painful but deserved price of Price:$1,699.00, the new 24mm 1.4 II is a stellar lens. I've used it and was impressed. I did discover that it has anamorphic distortion if you needed to include folk at each side the last few get fatter, LOL! but I guess you can correct it.

Your choice of the 70-200 f4.0 is easily the best. It can be carried n your pocket. I have pants with long pockets and sometimes walk around with the lens inside. (Deep pockets are very useful, LOL! In Milan where there are lots of pickpockets by the station, I routinely put a Coke™ can after my wallet as an early warning system.) The lens is just as sharp as its big brother but so much lighter and less obtrusive. I'd consider getting a dark sleeve for street work.

For 50 mm there are so many choices. The less costly 50 mm Macro lens is a great portrait lens and probably one of the very best lenses in that category. It's just slower to focus, but so what! I've not tried the 50mm 1.8/1.4/1.2L with a x1.4 extender and that's a great idea.

Still, no comment on selling your wonderful Phase One system, but that will emerge!

Asher
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  #5  
Old May 19th, 2010, 12:29 PM
Mike Shimwell Mike Shimwell is offline
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Asher's suggestion of the Zeiss 28 is a great one if you are happy manual focusing on the 5D - you can get an alternative focus screen to make it easier than with the standard screen (which is optimised for brightness.

I have a Zeiss Contax 28 and a ZF 35/2, both of which are great lenses no the 1Ds3. I also have the Canon 50/1.4, which in spite of its internet reputation I really like.

MIke
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  #6  
Old May 19th, 2010, 01:02 PM
Ken Tanaka Ken Tanaka is offline
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Let's see if we can completely confuse and frighten Leonardo into keeping that wonderful P25.

The Zeiss 28 is a fine lens but it's damn heavy and damn expensive for what it is. (I returned one earlier this year.) The plain, simple, frank, honest fact is that the boundary conditions in which the Zeiss 28, 35, and 50 can exel are all but absolutely irrelevant for most casual snappers. For most, if you want to take sharper photos it's very simple; put the camera on a tripod.

It's also worth noting that today's dslrs, yes even the 5DII, are poorly designed for manual focus. Viewfinders are a bit dimmer and offer no standard focusing aids (such as split-prism spots). The higher-resolution focusing screen sold by Canon specifically to aid in manual focus does offer a slight bit of aid but only at the expense of a dimmer viewfinder. (The matte frost is higher-res and, thus, higher diffraction.)

The popularity and marketing surge of the Zeiss manual lenses is due mainly to one factor: VIDEO. The 5DII in video mode is essentially a manual focus machine, with focus being pulled from the live view screen. So in this regard the buttery smooth focusing mechanisms in the Zeiss lenses is a real blessing and the viewfinder is a moot issue.

If you really want to hand-craft your focus may I offer two excellent, and far less costly, alternatives? Voigtlander now offers two pancake-design manual primes in Canon mounts; the 40mm f/2 Ultron and the 20mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar. I've been using both for nearly a year and they're a blast. Both have excellent optical performance easily on par with the Zeiss 35. They both have the signature warm Voigtlander color and contrast which I generally like. The 40mm even comes with a close-up lens accessory. And to top the cake, they're both much, much smaller and lighter than the Zeiss lenses. On a 5DII you can almost tuck the camera into a large jacket pocket.

Personally, I vote for keeping the P25 and medium format gear and just moving forward. That back has become somewhat legendary for its image quality within its range. Replacing this gear from scratch when the (inevitable) future gear rash erupts will cost dearly. You'll be in a much better position to trade it in at a dealer against updated toys than selling it now if you can avoid it.

Just my dos bolivianos.
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  #7  
Old May 19th, 2010, 01:32 PM
Mike Shimwell Mike Shimwell is offline
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Ken

I'd completely forgotten the Voigtlander Ultron. I'm sure that you're absolutely right!

Mike
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  #8  
Old May 19th, 2010, 01:59 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Tanaka View Post
If you really want to hand-craft your focus may I offer two excellent, and far less costly, alternatives? Voigtlander now offers two pancake-design manual primes in Canon mounts; the 40mm f/2 Ultron and the 20mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar. I've been using both for nearly a year and they're a blast. Both have excellent optical performance easily on par with the Zeiss 35. They both have the signature warm Voigtlander color and contrast which I generally like. The 40mm even comes with a close-up lens accessory. And to top the cake, they're both much, much smaller and lighter than the Zeiss lenses. On a 5DII you can almost tuck the camera into a large jacket pocket.
Ken,

This is all good news for me! The 20mm f 3.5 is only 1" long and 0.45 lb and so it does give leisure street shooting a welcome freedom from backache! I am surprised that the CPU built in allows camera control of f stop! With a tripod and live view, focus should be easy, specially n the studio.

I'm tempted to get these lenses myself, but this does not solve Leonardo's Phase One P25 dilemma. Your solution seems the best. Spend less money on fancy lenses and keep the P25!

Asher
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  #9  
Old May 19th, 2010, 02:05 PM
Mike Shimwell Mike Shimwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Tanaka View Post
...

The popularity and marketing surge of the Zeiss manual lenses is due mainly to one factor: VIDEO. The 5DII in video mode is essentially a manual focus machine, with focus being pulled from the live view screen. So in this regard the buttery smooth focusing mechanisms in the Zeiss lenses is a real blessing and the viewfinder is a moot issue.

...
Just a by the way - I am given to understand that Zeiss are planning on releasing some of their more upmarket cine lenses in ef mount over coming months. I may have the opportunity to try one or two out, and will let you know if that materialises.

Meanwhile, back to the question at hand:)

Mike
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  #10  
Old May 19th, 2010, 02:08 PM
Mike Shimwell Mike Shimwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Tanaka View Post

If you really want to hand-craft your focus may I offer two excellent, and far less costly, alternatives? Voigtlander now offers two pancake-design manual primes in Canon mounts; the 40mm f/2 Ultron and the 20mm f/3.5 Color-Skopar. I've been using both for nearly a year and they're a blast. Both have excellent optical performance easily on par with the Zeiss 35. They both have the signature warm Voigtlander color and contrast which I generally like. The 40mm even comes with a close-up lens accessory. And to top the cake, they're both much, much smaller and lighter than the Zeiss lenses. On a 5DII you can almost tuck the camera into a large jacket pocket.

.

Ken

Out of interest, do you have a preference between the 5D2/Ultron or the M9 for walking around with? Just thinking aloud that they could do very similar jobs in a slightly different way?

MIke
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Old May 19th, 2010, 09:52 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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Thank you all, I was very happy to see the kind advice, let me see, where do I start.

Asher. I am out of the business of art documentation as main occupation. I do shoot for one artist friend --and my personal pieces--, The future is wide open, so I should have an adaptable system too.

The back has a fantastic image quality and, as I said, Capture One is arguably the best in terms of capture processing and work flow.

but. same as with lenses, things are defined by compromises and trades. Trade manual focus for the hypothetical -- I say this referring to the Voigtlander, for example that I said to myself "Voigtlander", but then I googled a review that did not give it much advantage against japanese optics that happen to be pretty good-- gains in sharpness.

This time transportability an no nonsense are factors for me, and that is why the Mamiya is at a disadvantage against the Canon system.

I also have a DX and 4 or 5 lenses, so that would probably go and it would all be a matter of a 5D and my Canon G11

I will go to NY one week and Nicaragua 3 in July vacations, I will take the Mamiya to Adorama and see if they give me a good deal, if no I will continue with the Phase One to Nicaragua ... and keep you posted one way or another

thanks
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Old May 20th, 2010, 09:36 AM
Ken Tanaka Ken Tanaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Shimwell View Post
Ken

Out of interest, do you have a preference between the 5D2/Ultron or the M9 for walking around with? Just thinking aloud that they could do very similar jobs in a slightly different way?

MIke
Oh, Mike, you pose a tough question here. Let me make it even tougher by restructuring the preference choices to 5D2 w/40mm Voigtlander Ultron, Leica M9 with a 35mm or 50mm (Rits or Luxes), or an Olympus E-P2 with a Panasonic 20mm f/1.7. This is more representative of the menus I have at-hand for casual candid photography.

Lately I've been having an absolute blast with the E-P2 for this type of photography. Shockingly good image quality, excellent EVF, ability to mount M lenses (although no real advantage).
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Old May 20th, 2010, 08:36 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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Digital Pens are definitively tempting, but for me, coming from Mamiya, Canon and a prime is small enough, and at a much higher IQ.

Now, going back to earlier choices. I am considering the alternative of selling all my D300 gear, leaving the Mamiya for studio work --or find a good deserving home calmly later-- and getting the 5D2 and two lenses for starters.

Asher confirmed my choice of 70-200 f/4, so it would be just a matter of budget for that one.

That leaves me with a prime wide angular.

Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 Lens is one alternative

Voigtlander Color Skopar 20mm f/3.5 Aspherical SL II (Canon EOS)

could be another very compact --MF-- ...

... I have been Mamiya/Nikon for 30 years ... will I be Mamiya/Canon?
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Old May 20th, 2010, 08:47 PM
Ken Tanaka Ken Tanaka is offline
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Leonardo,

You're obviously jonseing for a new 5DII so there's no value debating choices further. Be happy, at least temporarily, with your next camera. The 5DII is an outstanding camera that will certainly be remembered as legendary.
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 06:44 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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Ken.

There is a curious situation with digital "35mm", or DSLR and it is that about 90% of sales are of DX or smaller than-ff-size-sensor systems like my D300.

Nikon used to be very enthusiastic about this subformat and stated that it was all we photographers needed .. until they came with the FX.

My problem is that there are NO primes --other than a DX normal-- on Nikon DX mount !!

This affects people who want --or like-- to shoot with an unobtrusive fast, compact 20mm, or 24mm equivalent.

If I had such lens I would stay with my D300

I don't think that it is impossible to produce such lens since I have a zoom 18mm 35 equivalent. (Tokina)

So that is it... A mystery and a frustration...
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 07:43 PM
Ken Tanaka Ken Tanaka is offline
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Your 20mm wish is granted.

How about a 40mm, too?
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 07:59 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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My dream is a 14 mm lineal minimal distortion prime that would translate to a 20mm 35mm equivalent.

The Voigtlander Color Skopar 20mm f/3.5 SL-II Aspherical Manual Focus Lens f/ Nikon is a good lens for a ff camera and that is exactly my point. I would have to buy a D52 in order to use a Skopar 20mm as a 20mm prime.

It is difficult to believe that the problem of wide angular lenses has not yet been solved for the DX format.


Exhibit a) A Tokina 11-16mm DX PRO f1:2.8 lens . If Tokina can do this they can do a 14mm-non fisheye- 2.8 prime, can't they?
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 08:43 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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Pentax has one that is 14mm f2.8 and equivalent to 21mm on a ff system.

I read somewhere that Tokina makes lenses for Pentax --or the other way--, so they may already HAVE my dream lens... the lens doesn't look so small on the reviews images, but may be that the K10 is a small body--..

http://www.photozone.de/pentax/117-p...w--test-report
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 09:51 PM
Will Thompson Will Thompson is offline
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Hi Leonardo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by leonardobarreto.com View Post
Exhibit a) A Tokina 11-16mm DX PRO f1:2.8 lens . If Tokina can do this they can do a 14mm-non fisheye- 2.8 prime, can't they?
Is this not a 1.6X crop body only lens?

Trade you my new Digital Roliflex for your Phase One Back???

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Old May 22nd, 2010, 10:01 PM
Ken Tanaka Ken Tanaka is offline
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Why are you so fixated on a 20mm field of view?
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 09:55 AM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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Hi Will.. long time no see my friend.


"Trade you my new Digital Roliflex for your Phase One Back??? " that is a nice Roliflex... what else you have?

Regarding the Tokina 11-16mm. Yes it is DX meaning that it is designed and will work on a 1.6 crop body (or DX)

Now, Kens question is an interesting one. Why do we need a 20mm, 24mm or 28mm prime lens for the D300.

First of all. Why not? I read somewhere that 1.6 crop factor --or DX-- are about 90% of Nikon sales (or, just say that I am making it up as a guess). And among all users there may be some that want to have access to such lenses.

Now we only have the choice of zooms. If you study resolution charts for zooms against primes you will find out that primes have less distortion, better performance and are faster. They are also smaller, and much less conspicuous than zooms.

The advantages for street photography are known to old photographers --like me-- that began shooting in film era. After a while you memorize the exact angle of coverage of a lens --say a 28mm-- so begin composing in your mind before taking the camera at eye level and can shoot way faster.

If you point your camera at someone with a huge zoom lens you get a different reaction from your sitting subjects than with a tiny 28mm.

Producing the camera from a small camera bag can be achieved much better with a tiny 28mm prime than a large zoom.

I particularly dislike the idea of a 28mm to 200mm zoom lens.

But, as you say, it may just be a fixation. I have a lot of those. :-]

take care
leonardo
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 03:54 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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Off topic, but ... interrupt this program to announce that

http://www.negativeslide.com/?p=102

You can shoot Kodachrome for one more year ... and then it is gone ...

sorry...
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