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Image Processing and Workflow RAW, DNG , TIFF and JPG. From Capture to Ready for Publish/Display. All software and techniques used within an image workflow, (except extensive retouching and repair or DAM).

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  #1  
Old July 4th, 2010, 07:23 AM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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Default save for web problem

Hi everyone,
I'm a bit puzzled that I thought that, when using the "save for Web" function with "all" chosen from the drop down menu of the embedded infos when saving, I was keeping both informations from Copyright and EXIF. For usually I don't want to provide my exifs with everyone when sharing my photos (personnal matter), I use "copyright info" in the drop down menu. But now, I am testing the stuff and just noticed that there's no exifs in my files, just the copyright thing. I checked the manual, and it's written that "all" means "all". there is even the option of saving "all" but the camera info. Have I misunderstood something?

Thanks everyone.
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  #2  
Old July 4th, 2010, 08:22 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Sandrine,

Are you editing with Photoshop or what?

Best regards,

Doug
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  #3  
Old July 4th, 2010, 09:15 AM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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yes, with photoshop CS4. the main problem is if I use the "save as" function or the "save" function in ACR it works, But no camera info when I save with "save for web" even with "all" selected. According to the manual it is supposed to work. I tested by uploading a photo in a site, downloaded it, right click>properties, there is the copyright info, but not the camera settings.
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Old July 4th, 2010, 09:21 AM
Charles L Webster Charles L Webster is offline
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It's a feature. Save for Web in Photoshop strips the EXIF. If you want the same output, with EXIF, just do a Save As instead.
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  #5  
Old July 4th, 2010, 04:16 PM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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So what's "all" refers to, in opposition to "all but camera info" (now we're on a linguistic problem) and why on earth the manual says that "all" means "all".
Thanks anyways for the answer...


Is this feature appears in CS5?
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Old July 4th, 2010, 04:53 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Sandrine,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrine Bascouert View Post
So what's "all" refers to, in opposition to "all but camera info" (now we're on a linguistic problem) and why on earth the manual says that "all" means "all".
Well, as a forensic engineer and technical writer, married to a writer and copy editor, I never cease to be disappointed in the communication lapses we endure in almost every milieu.

Best regards,

Doug
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Old July 5th, 2010, 02:02 AM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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Just one thing. Is it possible for one of you that own the Manual in English (CS4) to send me, or display here, the page concerning this feature.... Thanks.
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Old July 5th, 2010, 02:14 AM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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I've done it myself (with the helpful "help" function in the software :-) )











Now, I'm a very stubborn person. I WANT TO UNDERSTAND!!!!
I won't move from here, no, no, don't insist. I won't move.
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  #9  
Old July 5th, 2010, 06:18 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Sandrine,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrine Bascouert View Post
I've done it myself (with the helpful "help" function in the software
Just to summarize what is stated in the early portion of the Help, there are several forms of metadata that can be implanted in these files, notably:

Exif metadata. This includes the familiar information about the type of camera, aperture, shutter speed, and so forth. A modern extension of it includes a form of copyright information. It uses a format based on the header structure of a TIFF file.
IPTC IIM metadata - this is the "older" form of the IPTC metadata that includes information about the oeuvre, including about the photographer, the location of the shoot, copyright information, instructions regarding allowable usage, etc. It uses a format similar to that of the Exif metadata.
IPTC XMP metadata - This is the "modern" form of the IPTC metadata, with a similar repertoire of data items (some with different names). It uses the XMP data structure format, a form of XML.

So for one thing, we see when the Help says that "With All except camera data, XMP metadata will be preserved except Exif", that is not surprising, since Exif metadata is not XMP metadata.

Then, when it says that All preserves all XMP metadata, that would be expected to be the same thing (again since Exif metaadta is not XML metadata)!

(What the two submodes actually do I'm not sure. I never use that overall mode. I'll check a little later today.)

By the way, just for thoroughness, the term "Exif" actually refers to the entire file format we normally use for JPEG files. So the term"Exif information", often used incorrectly to mean "Exif metadata", actually refers to the image information itself. (Metadata means "information about [the] information.")

Best regards,

Doug
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  #10  
Old July 5th, 2010, 07:41 AM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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That was puzzling me. It's not very accurate as an information. this way to use a word and then to use another word in a way you don't know if it refers to actually exactly the same thing. Not to mention that I'm absolutely not a tech person, and I do my best not to be completely idiot with these things. It doesn't help...
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  #11  
Old July 5th, 2010, 08:29 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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For some more insight into all this, I recently did some tests to find out what types of metadata are propagated by Photoshop CS5 into files exported as JPG files in the "Save for Web . . ." mode.

I stared with a camera file that included a full suite of Exif metadata (including the Proprietary "MakerNote" area), and (naturally) no IPTC metadata.

I then added in Photoshop various metadata items (with unique content so that they could be "traced"). Note that in Photoshop, we do not have the opportunity to distinctly add metadata items in the three metadata "zones" (Exif, IPTC IIM, and IPTC XMP). Rather, we enter an item, and Photoshop maps it to the "appropriate" field in one or more (possibly all three) zones. (These fields may not have the same formal name in all three zones.)

I then saved the resulting file using the normal Photoshop Save function, and also saved it separately in the "Save for Web . . ." mode with the five available metadata option choices: None, Copyright, Copyright and Contact Info, All Except Camera Info, and All.

I then examined each file with ExifToolGUI to determine what metadata was present.

There are of course many fine and tedious details which I will spare the reader, reporting things on a broad basis.

Here is the result for the regular JPG save:

Regular JPG save
Exif. Substantially complete, except for the MakerNote. (Photoshop never preserves the MakerNote data; I will not mention this again.)
IPTC IIM. Complete
IPTC XMP. Complete; Photoshop reference information.

Here are the results for the "Save for Web . . ." mode, for each metadata option:

None
Exif. Copyright notice only
IPTC IIM. None
IPTC XMP. None

Copyright
Exif. Copyright notice only
IPTC IIM. Copyright notice only
IPTC XMP. Copyright notice (known in this zone as "Rights"); Author name ("Creator" here); Photoshop reference information.

Copyright and Contact Info
Exif. Copyright notice only
IPTC IIM. Copyright notice only
IPTC XMP. Copyright notice (known in this zone as "Rights"); Author name ("Creator" here); other Author ("Creator") information; Photoshop reference information.

All except camera info
Exif. Copyright notice only
IPTC IIM. Complete
IPTC XMP. Complete; Photoshop reference information.

All
Exif. Majority of items. [Missing: image pixel dimensions, some highly technical items.]
IPTC IIM. Complete
IPTC XMP. Complete; Photoshop reference information.

I would be glad to provide more details for anyone who is interested.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #12  
Old July 5th, 2010, 02:49 PM
Sandrine Bascouert Sandrine Bascouert is offline
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WOW that's a test, I'd try to do the same one with CS4 but I think I'm too lazy tolearn how to use your tool...Anyway, If I find some time to do so...I'll let you know..
Thanks you very much, that was very helpful.
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