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New Leica Format: A major event in Modern Photography or a simple variant of MF?

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The New Lecia S2 DSLR digtal camera system with 9 lenses designed from scratch to work together! This is something to desire! If it delivers as expected, this defines a new class of Pro camera more suited to the digital Age!

Sensor.png


With handling of a 35mm DSLR and a ~MF size sensor, 30mmx45mm, the new Leica S2 camera shown at Photokina 2008 is a surprise to everyone and a new camera class! Rumors has circulated that Nikon would do this and leapfrog over Canon's penchant for bettering them whenever they have a new flagship! Leica, having made some money and friends supplying lenses for Panasonic's cameras and possessing amongst the worlds finest tens engineers did what other's talked about. I wouldn't be surprised is Canon would do likewise with the next 18 months if Leica's sales take off.

S2_system clear b.g..png


There's a line of 9 lenses to start off and then specialized lenses such as super-wide angle and tilt-shift are promised.

Dr Andreus Kaufman claims a new era is dawning with a quantum leap: the focus, the perfect picture. The S2 is developed from scratch, designed and manufactured in Germany. There is likely simply nothing better than a Leica lens in this format. Leica with its venerable tradition in camera building and mastery of optical design and manufacture aims to produce the perfect tool.

The camera appears in black seeming slightly larger than a Canon 5D. It has an auxiliary holder allowing vertical shooting and more power. The camera is made with an extra large bayonet throat so that new advances in lens design are possible. The sensitivity of the camera is from ISO 80 to 1600 and shutter speeds of 1/4000 are obtainable. With flash, synchronization to high speeds is possible due to central lens shutters in the S lenses! This is a great advantage for fashion, glamour, product and portrait especially. A first for a pro Leica camera is the autofocus that is claimed to be highly accurate. MF is also possible but it's not yet clear if one can do full time MF when AF is set.

Of course the camera is dustproof and weather proof, another move up the ladder for Leica's offerings for the active pro. Can it be run under the shower, like the Olympus? I am not going to be able to try it just yet! That is not a jest! After use in sandy or salty environments, weather-sealed Olympus DSLR's can be washed down!

The camera appears to be ergonomically designed with indents for the thumb posteriorly and the fingers in front.

So what do we think of this new system? Of course, we can only do on Leica's reputation and the feeling that with Phase One's long-term strategic alliance, the software will, no doubt, be pretty mature out of the box. It's going to depend on the quality of Leica lenses, and there's little doubt that Leica can deliver there and the lessons learned in the rolling out of the M8 where reviewers failed to notice, pick up or admit obvious flaws. We'd expect them to have gotten it right this time. Of course, we don't know where the price points will fall, but it's not likely to be cheap! Would you buy this instead of a Leaf, Sinar or Hasselblad? If you want fast lenses and Leica glass, the answer might be yes!

Once great reports on focusing and the quality of the images come out, I can see the rich dentists, lawyers and physicians buy this camera because they know the Leica quality. After all, why not go first class? It's charged as an expense, no doubt. Professional photographers will now not be held back by the lack of AF. The more user-friendly 35mm DSLR-like form may appeal to those who want the quality, wide apertures but not the extra weight of the Canon 1D Mark III system yet high Synch speeds of the Hasselblad H3 lenses with built in shutters which the Leica S-lenses can match!

So Leica has my vote. My money? That's another thing. Where’s the pictures? :)

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
LCD and buttons!

Back_buttons.jpg


The new camera appears to have 2 large vertical buttons either side of the 3" high resolution LCD display. The horizontal thumb wheel on the top right hand corner, presumably cycles through these choices which are likely lit up in the viewfinder.

Here are some sample menu screens.

Menu1.png


Menu2.png


Menu3.png
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I hear a price of 20,00 Euros! That won't put off a lot of well healed folk. Heck, if you buy one of Nicolas' 100 foot boats, they'll throw this in for free! now if someone gave you $45,000 what camera would you buy?

Asher
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
First, a little philosophizing.

The saga of format sizes in the digital domain is a fascinating one, not unsurprisingly somewhat paralleling the same saga in the realm of film - except it unfolds in the opposite direction.

Today we finds that numerous technical developments improve the overall "quality" (and I intentionally use a rather vague term there) of the images we can get with a sensor of any given size. This in turn leads to increased value of such formats as the Four-Thirds format, and of the "1.6x" format as well..

At the same time, there are many photographers who say, "That's really all well and good, but I want better performance yet", which (to simplify things) says they would like to move up in format size anyway. So we see stunning images taken with Four-Thirds cameras, and really /B] stunning pictures taken with digital cameras with formats larger than 36 x 24 mm. And for those who have always wonder if size really counts in the human context, I need only point to the lovely ladies we see brother Nicolas shooting these days!

Then there is the matter of aspect ratio. Some using cameras with the 3:2 ratio yearn for 4:3, and vice-versa, while many think that 1:1 would be the best for overall use. On the other side of the coin, greatly improving resolution means that we need be less concerned with this - shoot so you can crop to what you want out of what you get. Often we hear slogans about this: "Well, I don't want to use a camera with a 6000 x 4000 px sensor and crop a 4000 x 4000 px image out of it. That's so wasteful. I'd rather have one with a 4000 x 4000 sensor".

Now, on to the Leica S2. It provides a way to make a noticeable step up in format size beyond "full-frame 35-mm" (please don't call it "full frame - just "35-mm" would be better if you want a catchy short name) while retaining integrated construction (not a separate "back") and a familiar form factor (two humps for Bactrian camels, one for SLR's). I think for many photographers wanting to take the next step in format size, it will provide a "smooth" transition.

For some, it's easy to make fun of "maintaining the familiar", while for others, doing so is worth more than anything else. (In another forum, in a wholly different technical area, I deal daily with, "Yes, that designation of that menu item is certainly misleading, but it has been that way for 10 years, and continuity is really important to these users.")

We've just seen, with the announcement of the Canon EOS-5D Mark II, Canon's recognition of the power of the familiar, of features drawn from other strata of the user hierarchy. The thing makes movies, for God's sake, and it has a built in receiver for the lovely little (inexpensive) IR remote control fobs to date associated with the EOS Digital Rebel family (ptui!).

So I think the Leica S2 takes an important place in the continuum of available digital photographic apparatus.

And its format is "bigger than full frame" - that's just like perpetual motion! What hath God wrought!
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
..(snip) now if someone gave you $45,000 what camera would you buy?

Asher
Hi Asher.
I'll say thank you very much indeed... then proceed to my local Photo retailer and ask for one of those nice disposable cameras, I think they cost $ 3.00.
That should keep the $45,000 donor happy ( I did what he ask and purchased a camera).
Having done that .. I'll pack up, take my 1DsMKIII with a selection of lenses and book the next flight to Botswana, stay there for a few weeks...take some nice images of the locals. :)
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
Will
Do you happen to be a brain surgeon by any chance? ... I can just picture it... "now hold on Dr Kelman... this will hurt a bit" lol :)
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Cost of owning Leica S2 versus 1DsIII

Hi Asher.
I'll say thank you very much indeed... then proceed to my local Photo retailer and ask for one of those nice disposable cameras, I think they cost $ 3.00.
That should keep the $45,000 donor happy ( I did what he ask and purchased a camera).
Having done that .. I'll pack up, take my 1DsMKIII with a selection of lenses and book the next flight to Botswana, stay there for a few weeks...take some nice images of the locals. :)

Yes, Ivan,

$45,000 is a massive amount of money. However, this new Leica S2 and it's lenses will likely hold 85% of their value over the next 5 YEARS and so the cost of ownership is likely to be $6750/5=$1350 per year!

A 1DsIII alone, with no lenses will go from $8000 to $3600 t0 ~$3000 in that time, or a cost of as much as $1,000 per year. Likely one already has lenses, but might splurge for new glass to match the quality of the 21MP. So now depreciation on $10,000 of great Canon glass would be again 15% so the loss here would be ~$300 per year. So the cost of ownership is roughly the same.

But wait! There's more. There's an extra ~ $27,000 tied up in the ~ x3 expensive Leica S2 system so one loses the interest (or pays the bank in a loan) of at least 4% so the the extra expense of the Leica S2 is $1,080 if one took money out of the bank or ~ $2,160 if one took a loan!

For a rich dentist, one can simply add this to practice expenses and the government essentially pays for 60% of the camera.

If I had the money, I'd certainly consider the Sinar S2 and be thrilled to own it. However not before trying out the Sinar narback eMotion 75 LV "generation 2" or the Leaf with the internally rotatable sensor.

I have not gone for disposable cameras, nor the luxury DSLR's. I have decided to sit out the rapid eruption of these digital marvels to enjoy large format film photography or stitch images form my 5D. Likely I'll but the new 5D as long as it can focus better than my perfectly wonderful classic 5D. The defect of struggling for focus is real and would prevent me buying that camera, even with 21MP!

One more admission, I have had an affair with pinhole curved film plane and will go public shortly!

Asher

BTW, were you joking about Botswana? Tell us more in a new thread.
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
...(snip)...For a rich dentist, one can simply add this to practice expenses and the government essentially pays for 60% of the camera. ...(snip)



BTW, were you joking about Botswana? Tell us more in a new thread.

Right.. now where was that orthodontic college, I want to enrol and get my 60% off all my photo gear...
Back on topic, It is an incredible achievement. I have little doubt Leica will flog thousands of units... as opposed to experts Photographers, there are millions of dentists throughout the world.

PS: No I was not joking about Botswana.. why? are you offering to be my patron and donate $45,000? :)
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Right.. now where was that orthodontic college, I want to enrol and get my 60% off all my photo gear...
Back on topic, It is an incredible achievement. I have little doubt Leica will flog thousands of units... as opposed to experts Photographers, there are millions of dentists throughout the world.

PS: No I was not joking about Botswana.. why? are you offering to be my patron and donate $45,000? :)
Ivan,

It's the dentists and other well-healed individuals as well as the likes of Japanese fans of Leica who same to be avid collectors or mint cameras and lenses, that buy enough to get Leica productions out of the gate. Anyway, that's my impression. Without this constituency, how could the other photographers get the camera at even the price offered? All I know is that from the beginning, Leica has been excellent and on a personal humanistic level, amongst the most noble of all companies.

Asher
 

Ivan Garcia

New member
Hi Asher.
I hope I did not offend you with my playful banter . I too rate their products highly, alas out of my range I am afraid.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Asher.
I hope I did not offend you with my playful banter . I too rate their products highly, alas out of my range I am afraid.
No My friend, not even in the slightest degree! I think cost is a great inhibitor. just that I'd love to have one. I keep adding up what lenses I could sell. however, I already sold off a bunch to get my 8x10 and lenses. One can get Leica or Zeiss glass for one's Canon DSLR's. I have already done that and I should be immune from the Leica but it's so good on paper. This is one camera that I think will influence a lot of other MFRS, especially Nikon and Canon.

Asher
 
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