Do you mostly follow threads or just post but don't give feedback?

I find myself being the only person to comment on some folks post, for example bears or owls from Jamie. That's going on that people don't actually get the energy to respond to really nice pictures. Feedback creates bonds between photographers.

No need to avoid, "Good job!", "Well done!", "I have one taken last year and here it is." You're not expected to write a scholarly opinion as if you are the curator of a museum! However, you must play your part and give feedback. It's the respect we all deserve and want ourselves.

Let me add this.

I sometimes take pictures very seriously. Maybe to an extreme, I'd admit. That might inhibit folk from making comments themselves as it might be thought that one has to do the same. Or else the very idea might be seem as arrogant. Here, for example, I believe that Cem's picture is important as it is well made and has a timeless value that's worth keeping coming back, irrespective of what is or becomes fashionable. If we store it and look after it, someone 200 years time might then experience it anew and still enjoy it!

However, this is merely my own experience and opinion. Feel free to knock me down and argue whenever you think I overreach. My view is no more important than anyone's else. It's a perspective seen from my position. I'd love to hear alternative views when I spout forth!

So whatever your reasons for just being passive, this is your forum and take responsibility to give feedback. That's the most important thing we can do.

Asher

You mention bears and owls, Asher. There are a number of well established nature photography web sites that serve as communities for outdoor photographers. They are great places for like-minded folks to enjoy, critique, and encourage creativity. While there has been a noticeable drop off in activity recently, these popular sites will likely evolve and adapt to the needs of its members.

OPF, on the other hand, is not solely focused on nature photography, or any other niche; hence the "Open" part of its name. Speaking for myself, I think this is absolutely wonderful; one never knows what will be found here from one day to the next. Unfortunately (maybe), one tends to comment on what one knows or appreciates, and the rest will be left for someone else with greater familiarity with the subject. Or perhaps not.

So, the lack of comments may have something to do with the wide open nature of OPF. Posters may need to accept that photos presented here may be appreciated despite the lack of replies.

The answer for me is a clear 'it depends'.

There are times I fee like posting, there are times I feel like commenting, sometimes both and sometimes none.
Everybody is different, there are reasons for posting and there are reasons for commenting, some of this was already touched here.

To answer the questions: I do follow threads, but only a few. I do post and I do give feedback where I feel that I can add to it. This happens not necessarily within a short time frame, as other factors might contribute and potentially be responsible for delays.

I am not fond of imposed rules like 'post x, comment y', which is IMHO far too frequent in flickr groups. My personal 'feel' to this is that the quality of the comments increases when such rules are not mandatory.

Best regards,
Michael

Asher,
You! Serious! Extreme! Never!! I will admit that there are the occasions when I am scratching my head a bit after figuring out what you have said but that's the challenge. Unfortunately or not, I don't mind a bit of a challenge and love stirring the pot to see what's on the bottom. So, adding a comment for me is a bit like joining in on as many conversations at a party as possible. The challenge is not to say the wrong thing to the wrong people.
But others are not that gregarious. A view, a read and move on is often enough. There are times also when what you might like to say would be deemed inappropriate, after all, we can't possibly 'like' everything. What if we think a photo stinks? Would such a comment be more useful than no comment?
And its not all about 'me'. If someone doesn't want to say anything at a thread I started thats OK. They may not be the least bit interested, as I am on such things as 'what's on your wish list' or a poem I don't understand attached to a photo i don't understand even more.
If we are to encourage freedom of feedback we must also encourage freedom of speech and that is a double edged sword.
You're right in one respect, though. This place does have a sense of the 'intellectual' about it from time to time and that can be intimidating for those 'working class' sods like myself who have a 'simpler' grasp of the concepts and prefer to just 'show off' their stuff and get a tick from the teacher.
But I say to those people: Unite against the Intelligensia. Rebel against the dogma of the upper classes. Have your say!! If you think its ****, say so. You are probably right. Art is like a flat pillow. No matter how much you fluff it up (with words), its still going to hurt your head when you lay on it.
Cheers
Tom

Asher Kelman said:

I find myself being the only person to comment on some folks post, for example bears or owls from Jamie. That's going on that people don't actually get the energy to respond to really nice pictures. Feedback creates bonds between photographers.

No need to avoid, "Good job!", "Well done!", "I have one taken last year and here it is." You're not expected to write a scholarly opinion as if you are the curator of a museum! However, you must play your part and give feedback. It's the respect we all deserve and want ourselves.

Let me add this.

I sometimes take pictures very seriously. Maybe to an extreme, I'd admit. That might inhibit folk from making comments themselves as it might be thought that one has to do the same. Or else the very idea might be seem as arrogant. Here, for example, I believe that Cem's picture is important as it is well made and has a timeless value that's worth keeping coming back, irrespective of what is or becomes fashionable. If we store it and look after it, someone 200 years time might then experience it anew and still enjoy it!

However, this is merely my own experience and opinion. Feel free to knock me down and argue whenever you think I overreach. My view is no more important than anyone's else. It's a perspective seen from my position. I'd love to hear alternative views when I spout forth!

So whatever your reasons for just being passive, this is your forum and take responsibility to give feedback. That's the most important thing we can do.

Asher

Click to expand...

I look at a lot but comment litle, partly because I am no great academic, I sort of know what I like and what I don't like. I think also that the photographer knows what they are doing often and so to say "ah, you should have done this, you should have done that" if not typed in the right was could actually put people off their photography. The person making the comment doesn't always know the exact conditions in which the photograph was taken, No good saying "you should have stepped back a few metres to take the shot" - for all one knows ig the photographer had stepped back a few metres they'd have gone A over T down a cliff side!

Hi Asher,

Perhaps (some of) the answers -including mine- have already been given in this thread from last year.

I will provide a summary of my take because I do not want to oblige anybody to reread all that.

I do not like interacting with posters who are here just to advertise their own pictures and couldn't care about anybody else or OPF for that matter (i.e. they do not contribute to any other thread than theirs). I do not want to limit anybody's manner of participating in OPF but I personally neglect the group mentioned above. That's all.

Hi Tom,

Tom dinning said:

...But others are not that gregarious. A view, a read and move on is often enough. There are times also when what you might like to say would be deemed inappropriate, after all, we can't possibly 'like' everything. What if we think a photo stinks? Would such a comment be more useful than no comment?
...

Click to expand...

I have been avoiding commenting in case I think a photo stinks. Happens every now an then. But then again, my own photos stink equally bad and the others are free to neglect them, which they certainly do.

Tom dinning said:

...And its not all about 'me'. If someone doesn't want to say anything at a thread I started thats OK. They may not be the least bit interested, as I am on such things as 'what's on your wish list' or a poem I don't understand attached to a photo i don't understand even more....

Click to expand...

Fully agreed.

Tom dinning said:

..If we are to encourage freedom of feedback we must also encourage freedom of speech and that is a double edged sword.
...

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This is to me the summary of the OPEN in the OPF. To my knowledge, we have always tried to encourage the freedom of speech. I, however, have felt on many occasions in the past that I did not have the same freedom since I was a moderator of OPF. That is why I eventually gave up on that role, to be able to say what I think without this being seen as the official statement of OPF.

Tom dinning said:

....You're right in one respect, though. This place does have a sense of the 'intellectual' about it from time to time and that can be intimidating for those 'working class' sods like myself who have a 'simpler' grasp of the concepts and prefer to just 'show off' their stuff and get a tick from the teacher.
But I say to those people: Unite against the Intelligensia. Rebel against the dogma of the upper classes. Have your say!! If you think its ****, say so. You are probably right. ...

Click to expand...

I refuse to be categorized as the intelligentsia, in case I am accidentally considered as one. And I am not even intelligent enough to make a fluffed up statement on that.

Tom dinning said:

... Art is like a flat pillow. No matter how much you fluff it up (with words), its still going to hurt your head when you lay on it.
...

Click to expand...

This is excellent! Can I re-quote/refer to it?

Cheers,

Hi Hélène,

Hélène Anderson said:

...I think also that the photographer knows what they are doing often and so to say "ah, you should have done this, you should have done that" if not typed in the right was could actually put people off their photography. The person making the comment doesn't always know the exact conditions in which the photograph was taken, No good saying "you should have stepped back a few metres to take the shot" - for all one knows ig the photographer had stepped back a few metres they'd have gone A over T down a cliff side!

Click to expand...

Spot on!

Cem,
I would never consider you one of the intelligentsia. You're a dumb **** just like me.
Feel free to use anything I say except in a court of law. In that case I'll deny everything.

Cheers
Tom

Tom dinning said:

... You're a dumb **** just like me.

Click to expand...

I have proven that to be a fact on many occasions, lol.

Cem_Usakligil said:

But then again, my own photos stink equally bad and the others are free to neglect them, which they certainly do.

Click to expand...

Not at all, but I'll take your pictures as an example as to why I sometimes do not comment good pictures:

• some of your pictures are great and I have nothing to add
• in some cases, as in the recent light and shadow series, I don't understand where you are aiming to, so I can't really comment
• sometimes I simply to not have the time

It is not your case, but sometimes I do not comment because I know from experience that critique, even positive critique, is not appreciated by the user.

But I understand Asher's problem: a forum can only work if the members make it work. At present, Asher is bearing most of the weight of keeping the forum running but trying to find positive comments for orphan pictures. That is not going to work in the long run either.

Hi Jerome,

Jerome Marot said:

...

• some of your pictures are great and I have nothing to add
• in some cases, as in the recent light and shadow series, I don't understand where you are aiming to, so I can't really comment
• sometimes I simply to not have the time

...

Click to expand...

• Thanks.
• It is nothing obscure, it is just a collection of pictures focusing on the quality of light and long shadows cast by the low angle of the sun. And it is in the Layback Cafe, there are no pretensions.
• Understood.

Jerome Marot said:

...But I understand Asher's problem: a forum can only work if the members make it work. At present, Asher is bearing most of the weight of keeping the forum running but trying to find positive comments for orphan pictures. That is not going to work in the long run either.

Click to expand...

There is no misunderstanding of the problem, it is quite obvious. How to tackle it is yet another issue. I have always said that OPF cannot continue to exist by the virtue of the enormous effort put into it by Asher and -let's not forget- also by some others such as yours truly. Having an overactive core team who answers all the posts and makes sure that nothing gets orphaned is like having parents who do everything for their children. Sometimes we have to let go.

How would you deal with the problem then?

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. I've always said that OPF is like a yellow tour bus for folk on their own journeys. Some travel together for a while, share what they can and then have to get off to do their own thing. That's what they need to do at that time in their journey. Others come on and contribute something more. Some old friends return. This bus has an open door.

Cem,

I too am very miffed by those who come merely to advertise their work. One fellow was posting on 11 fora simultaneously. I asked why he even bothered as they weren't for sale!! I told him that to be welcome here, he has to value our comments and the work of others. He has now vanished to where he can just get applause.

Jerome, you address an important question, orphan posts.

Jerome Marot said:

But I understand Asher's problem: a forum can only work if the members make it work. At present, Asher is bearing most of the weight of keeping the forum running but trying to find positive comments for orphan pictures. That is not going to work in the long run either.

Click to expand...

Jerome,

I struggle to allow others to make the forum work, holding back on my comment. Unfortunately, I may seem too didactic and sure of myself, when I'm learning so much from everyone myself: Bart's technique in processing and his wonderful pictures from a forgotten village, Nicolas in major organization to make impressive pictures that succeed in a rare competitive world and Tom Dunning for a body of work, that's so inspiring, honest and naturally worthy, to name only a few of those.

However, sometimes folk post when several contributors have multiple new posts that have pushed a new poster way, way down the "Recent Posts" listing. Then that picture becomes orphaned. Now are they worthy of being saved? The chances are that not all are. However, I've seen some guys really improve and I'd rather err in their favor and see what else they share.

For OPF to succeed we need all your input, from pictures to ideas on maintaining the nature of this meeting place. I have great appreciation for feedback on how this bus is driven!

Asher

Asher,

in other forums I sometimes saw a search function of unanswered posts - does this forum software offer the possibility?

There was a time when I looked for such posts and commented, but a manual search is time-consuming...

Best regards,
Michael

Michael Nagel said:

Asher,

in other forums I sometimes saw a search function of unanswered posts - does this forum software offer the possibility?

There was a time when I looked for such posts and commented, but a manual search is time-consuming...

Best regards,
Michael

Click to expand...

I'll see if we can do that.

Asher

Michael Nagel said:

Asher,

in other forums I sometimes saw a search function of unanswered posts - does this forum software offer the possibility?

Click to expand...

Asher Kelman said:

I'll see if we can do that.

Asher

Click to expand...

Asher,

The vBulletin code appears to be; do=process&replyless=1&replylimit=0

HTH

Bob

If you find yourself living in a small, compact hamlet then everyone has intimate knowledge of the affairs of their neighburs. Assuming that there's no "bad apple" in the bunch then it will be a safe and cosy place to live.

Then the developers arrive and suddenly the original 10-20 inhabitants have to get used to the idea of sharing their lives with a hundred or more newcomers. The intimacy still exists amongst the original few and they learn to interact a little with their new influx.

A safe and thriving community means that more people wish to live there and more developement occurs. The population exceeds 1000 and we begin to see a more realistic cross section of society. Look along the high street and there are bodies lurking in doorways, watching others going about their business. The more forward members of the community fall into two identifiable categories.....the "charity" organisers and the ones with commercial aspirations who see a chance to make a little something for themselves.

Of course, there's also the likelehood of the odd fellon appearing but he or she will be quickly run out of town by all the good folk. Someone writes a book about the towns past and others read it...partly out of curiosity and partly out of duty to the author and publisher.

So, we have our rounded civilisation of watchers and do'ers, givers and takers and lurkers and flashers.
"Welcome to OPFville, Population 5600 Please drive carefully and take your litter home"

Bob Latham said:

If you find yourself living in a small, compact hamlet then everyone has intimate knowledge of the affairs of their neighburs. Assuming that there's no "bad apple" in the bunch then it will be a safe and cosy place to live.

Then the developers arrive and suddenly the original 10-20 inhabitants have to get used to the idea of sharing their lives with a hundred or more newcomers. The intimacy still exists amongst the original few and they learn to interact a little with their new influx.

A safe and thriving community means that more people wish to live there and more developement occurs. The population exceeds 1000 and we begin to see a more realistic cross section of society. Look along the high street and there are bodies lurking in doorways, watching others going about their business. The more forward members of the community fall into two identifiable categories.....the "charity" organisers and the ones with commercial aspirations who see a chance to make a little something for themselves.

Of course, there's also the likelehood of the odd fellon appearing but he or she will be quickly run out of town by all the good folk. Someone writes a book about the towns past and others read it...partly out of curiosity and partly out of duty to the author and publisher.

So, we have our rounded civilisation of watchers and do'ers, givers and takers and lurkers and flashers.
"Welcome to OPFville, Population 5600 Please drive carefully and take your litter home"

Click to expand...

love this !

i haven't been commenting recently - I have not had much time - been working and making work !

also I seem to be able to stop threads with one beautiful comment !

i am still awaiting communication lessons from Jerome !

I do wish t o become more active, but often I only have a few moments to post up a photo. Then I'm off to get back to my family. Working 12 hours shifts and raising a family has put a damper on my hobby big time! What to do? I'm being patient in knowing my son will go to school and I will have more time in the future! But what to do when the lady of the house wants to try for a girl!!!

jake klein said:

..... But what to do when the lady of the house wants to try for a girl!!!

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Unusual question there Jake.

jake klein said:

But what to do when the lady of the house wants to try for a girl!!!

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What to do? We'll assume you knew last time and it wasn't just the alignment of 3 stars in the heavens again! We'll give you time off and wish you lot's of luck! boy or girl, you'll be blessed. just get a wide angle lens to capture the two of them!

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

What to do? We'll assume you knew last time and it wasn't just the alignment of 3 stars in the heavens again! We'll give you time off and wish you lot's of luck! boy or girl, you'll be blessed. just get a wide angle lens to capture the two of them!

Asher

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I do want a wide angle! The family always comes first though. I just returned the tamron 300mm and got Jacob a nice cedar swing-set. Parenting is a full time job and I don't see my self at a point of serious dedication to photography till the little ones are in school.

Jake,

My point is that being dedicated to your family is the zone your photography should be right now. They are your subjects. That's then where all the joy, love and passion meets! Yes, the 300 mm is not likely to be needed for that!

Nothing comes before Jacob!

Asher

Hi Jake,

Not to steer this thread off course, but I agree with Asher on this. There's a whole genre of serious photography that is focused on those close to us. Sean Reid has a wonderful article on this subject on his paid site. He cites Walt Odets, among others. I find Odets work inspiring.

There is also a school of so-called "Family Journalism" that you might enjoy looking into.

The point is that family life and serious photography can be integrated. You're likely making pictures of loved ones anyway, so why not do so with the mindset of artist? You'll be enriched by it and your family albums will be far more than a collection of snapshots.

John

In the case of Jamie I ran out of "great" and "wows". Is his fault! I'm kidding of course. One thing I don't understand is why with almost 10k registered members (according to the forum statistics) it feels like there's is just a dozen or so of regulars.

Ruben

Ruben Alfu said:

In the case of Jamie I ran out of "great" and "wows". Is his fault! I'm kidding of course. One thing I don't understand is why with almost 10k registered members (according to the forum statistics) it feels like there's is just a dozen or so of regulars.

Ruben

Click to expand...

Actually, within hours, we ban a good percentage of members for spamming, even if they get through our clever filters to detect spammers. About 40% of registrations are by BOTs to harvest your information or dictionary attackers or other spammers. So this means we actually have just 5656, not including those very few who perished in the past few years, unfortunately. Of these, about 30-50 come every day logged on and we have about 400-1000 visitors daily altogether.

So you are right, we just have say 10% of potentially active members actually coming and then only 1/2 write a comment sometimes during the week. I'll check sometime to see how many discrete members we have over a different periods.

If someone's post is not answered, they get miffed. I've noticed folk log in and log out always watching their latest post for replies but not thinking of making connections by finding other pictures or comments that are interesting for them to relate to and reply themselves.

Asher

who was it that said: 'If its not about me I'm not interested'. I think it was Jerry Seinfeld. We all laughted nervously because we know how true that can be.

Tim

Love that reply!! so true and so funny

Charlotte-

Yes and no. Sometimes and maybe.

C'mon Fahim, don't sit on the fence. You can change you mind later if you want.

fahim mohammed said:

Yes and no. Sometimes and maybe.

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