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  #1  
Old June 13th, 2006, 12:11 PM
Jenny Ellerbe Jenny Ellerbe is offline
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I hate to see this forum sitting here empty. Does anyone here do Medical-Forensic-Scientific-Legal photography? If so, I am interested in knowing what exactly it is that you do. :)

Jenny
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  #2  
Old June 13th, 2006, 02:40 PM
Mike Spinak Mike Spinak is offline
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Good question, Jenny.

I was wondering the same thing, and was considering posting a similar question, myself. I am guessing that Asher, who owns and runs this site, probably does. My guess is based partly on Asher being the moderator for this forum, and partly on knowing that his background includes microbiology and oncology.

So, Asher, will you share some nifty M-F-S-L-e pictures with us?

Mike

www.mikespinak.com

Last edited by Mike Spinak; June 13th, 2006 at 06:42 PM.
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  #3  
Old June 13th, 2006, 09:44 PM
Ed Platkin Ed Platkin is offline
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This link may help define some of the work of legal/forensic photographers.

http://www.epic-photo.org/
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  #4  
Old June 15th, 2006, 03:41 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Mike and Ed,

Glad to see a few leaves float in here from the forrest.

In designing the fora, there is a need to stake out rooms to let people looking to post that we welcome their interests. We had for example feedback that Pentax and Olympus DSLR owners need to see their own camera listed to feel welcome. Macro photographers expressed an interest in their own room. So these changes were made. Other rooms filled on their own. This is how a site is organized and gets its own character.

Unseen by viewers are the conversations and consultations going on behind the scenes: for example extensive interviewing and recruitng new moderators, preparing for new articles and so forth. This activity consumes time like a black hole devours matter itself.

So this area awaits my attention, but is here, right now, ready to host our more scientific friends.

When I return from my European tour, we may see this area active!

Meanwhile, questions such as choice of lenses for skin, oral cavity and intraopeative photgraphy and screens for Xray imagiing, traffic light cameras, sattelite imaging and so forth are welcome here.

Asher
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  #5  
Old June 15th, 2006, 02:41 PM
Tom Yi Tom Yi is offline
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Here is a sample of what they do.

This is what happens when you smoke, get lung cancer, do nothing and it spreads.
sorry took the link off. I think you needed a password to get in.

Last edited by Tom Yi; June 18th, 2006 at 11:47 PM.
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  #6  
Old June 16th, 2006, 02:37 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Hi Tom,

Do you do some of this work? Or do you know anyone in the specialty. i have written to the organization you mentioned and hope to interview some of the forensic/legal photographers to get to know the training and how one gets into this specialty.

Asher
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  #7  
Old June 18th, 2006, 11:42 PM
Tom Yi Tom Yi is offline
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I personally don't do this work. I too am a physician who loves photography and the pic is from a New England Journal of Medicine. I would think pathologists would know more about medical photography. As for forensics, I think that is handled through the law enforcement agencies.

I do know, none personally, some surgeons and pathologists that take photos of their work/specimens at times, so I'll keep my eyes open.
Another source maybe to call the pathology dept. of your nearby large hospital or a teaching hospital and ask.

Last edited by Tom Yi; June 18th, 2006 at 11:49 PM.
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  #8  
Old June 20th, 2006, 02:51 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Hi Tom,

Fell free to spread the word to other physicians. This room is expected to be occupied sparsly at first.

once people start to visit it should be self sustaining. Subjects might include intraoperatifive, endoscopic, pathology, sports medicine, radiological and so forth.

I am in Europe visiting photographers and galleries. So, if you can assist here even in a modest way, it would be appraciated!

Asher
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  #9  
Old June 20th, 2006, 12:26 PM
Tom Yi Tom Yi is offline
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I've been thinking about bringing my camera to work to take pictures of interesting skin lesions but I don't think it legal for me to upload them for non medical purpose, although things here maybe in the gray area. There has to be some site for medical photogrpahy/forensics, so I'll keep my eyes open. I'm in an office setting so I don't get around the hospital much.
New England Journal of Medicine posts interesting pictures of diseases with each issue, so that is a source, but they may not allow it to be reposted and you unfortunately need to subscribe to log in to see it at their site.

I'll keep my eyes open for anything. Is this section intended to show and discuss interesting pathology photographs?

For now, lets see if this link works
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/354/24/e25/F1
What you are seeing is a tooth, circled, that has been accidently gone down into the lungs as the patient was intubated. When a patient is intubated (has a breathing tube placed into the lungs) to assist in breathing for the patient, a metal blade is used to keep the mouth throat open. Occassionally this metal blade can knock a tooth loose when done quickly on emergency basis and this is what you are seeing here. Interesting, atleast for me. I'm still a bit confused about this section as I don't think it's meant to be a section where people check into to fulfill morbid curiosity. Since I don't do medical/forensic photography, my input here would be limited at best.

Last edited by Tom Yi; June 20th, 2006 at 12:38 PM.
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  #10  
Old June 29th, 2006, 11:08 PM
anthros anthros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny Ellerbe
I hate to see this forum sitting here empty. Does anyone here do Medical-Forensic-Scientific-Legal photography? If so, I am interested in knowing what exactly it is that you do. :)

Jenny
I do a little scientific photography. My wife is an archaeological chemist, which means that she uses strontium isotope data from bones and teeth to track human migration patterns. I went into the field (S. America) with her last summer and took about 3000 photos of bones (especially crania and mandibles) and teeth for cataloguing purposes.

The standard for archaeological photography is fairly low, so my shots were fine for her purposes, but I'd be interesting in learning more. Also, we'll be attaching my 20D to her microscope at some point, and I wouldn't mind hearing from someone who has experience with such a setup.

For what it's worth, Tom, I have about 1000 photos of skulls exhibiting porosity from syphillis (until recently thought to be an old-world disease) and leshmeniasis. Personally, I can't handle pathology photos (especially soft-tissue) but I thought you might be interested.

Jason
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  #11  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 01:26 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Anthros,

We'd love to see some of these pictures. We then might get feedback and get ideas on pitfalls and improved technic. The work you have done is so important in expanding, for photographers here, the potential for professional work in hospitals and universities.

Asher
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  #12  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 01:43 PM
Jason C Doss Jason C Doss is offline
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Thanks for pointing me here, Asher! I am still slowly poking my way around this site, and it's great to see you've cordoned off an area for the medical/scientific minded!

I'm a veterinary pathologist, and I bring my 20D with me almost every day. I don't use it every day, but it has served me well when I have used it.

Unfortunately, my monitor at work stinks pretty bad for working with images, but here's one I took a few weeks ago. This is the thoracic viscera (trachea, lungs, thymus, heart, mediastinum, collectively called "the pluck" in vet path) of a cat with cytauxzoonosis. This is a protozoal disease transmitted by ticks that is apparently quite prevalent here in Arkansas. The protozoa attack endothelial cells and macrophages, giving rise to this almost pathognomonic pattern of petechial hemorrhages in the lung.

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  #13  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 02:04 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Is the diagnosis made by just the gross appearance or does it take microscopy.

If so what equipment do you use? Also do you get paid for the pictures?

Asher
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  #14  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 02:33 PM
Jason C Doss Jason C Doss is offline
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Very few of the definitive diagnoses I make are done via gross examination only. Cases I gross out are ones like trauma (hit-by-car) or intestinal foreign body obstructions... things like that. All my cases get at least some histopathology workup, usually of the major organs only unless something more specific is required.

I do have some photomikes which were taken with an older Olympus scope camera, but I think we are going to order one of the nicer SPOT cameras soon. Maybe. ;)

Here's a photomike I took just of a splenic arteriole jam-packed (yes, that's a pathological term) with parasites within host cells. The green arrow points at a cell that contains some of the more clearly identifiable organisms (the little blue rods). This was taken at 40x.



Oh, and unfortunately, no I don't get paid extra for photography. :(
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  #15  
Old June 17th, 2007, 09:54 PM
Donald Krueger Donald Krueger is offline
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Default Legal Photography

I do "legal photography".
I am an evidence technichian in Wisconsin.
If I don't have an answer for a question, I will try to find one.
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  #16  
Old June 17th, 2007, 11:42 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Well, Donald you are especially welcome. There are unique issues for scientific work and that is trying to show clearly what exists and detect what was and what might be.

There's a need to corroborate that the image has not been altered if possible. To what extent is this left to an evidence tech just saying under oath what was done v. having tamper proof systems?

If you have examples, that would be interesting.

Of an existing crime, of course, please don't put yourself out on our behalf!!!

Asher
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  #17  
Old September 23rd, 2011, 04:16 PM
Jim Angersola Jim Angersola is offline
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Ar one time I used to photograph evidence for lawfirms. Personal injury, vehicle accidents. Slip and fall locations.
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  #18  
Old October 6th, 2011, 12:19 PM
Elena Sbrana Elena Sbrana is offline
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Nice to discover a forensic/medical subforum!
I'll make a note to myself to start posting some photos when I see something interesting under the microscope :)
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