Which is the fastest focusing APS-C digicam with a zoom lens?

I'm wondering whether there's a camera to supplement the excellent GXR 50mm Macro as a walk around vacation camera. I'd like to be able to have more reach than just 50mm and also want fast focus. Maybe one might consider a Pentax K dslr as they're small.

So what do you think fits the needs of fast focus, a long reach, minimum bulk and modest weight?

Asher

I would say that all entry models fit the bill, in any brand. Why? Because in each brand the entry level cameras are the smallest and lightest and because focus speed depends mostly on the lens, not on the camera (and is fast enough around the standard focal length in any of them).

Since you already own a Canon EOS, I would chose a 1100D. The viewfinder is decent (an often forgotten point, and IMHO one of the main difference between brands at that level).

Jerome,

I was wondering about the Sony NEX as it has an APS-C sensor. Of course, I could just stick to the GXR and manual pre-focus for street photography.

This brings up a philosophical issue in style of street photography. Fahim, for example, mostly asks permission verbally or by gesture. So that requires no auto focus.

Perhaps we have become too dependent of autofocus. For sure, using the Pentax Spotmatic, the viewfinder was so clear and the screen was just perfect, the subject snaps to clarity when one has focus.

Asher

I am not sure that I understand what you have in mind. What do you intend to do with the camera we are talking about?

Jerome Marot said:

I am not sure that I understand what you have in mind. What do you intend to do with the camera we are talking about?

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Jerome,

I want to do candid street photography without any interference or interaction. If I had my choice, there's a new APS-C 16 Megapixel 24-85mm GXR module. But it won't be available until in early 2012 (perhaps in January) This will be a better street lens I believe, giving a tad more reach.

So that's what I want to get for my trip to Europe, an APS-C size fast focus lightweight camera with reach, preferably up to 150mm. The Canon Rebel series is rather heavy compared to the NEX and so is the 70-200 f4.0 lens.

Asher

I still don't get it. What kind of street situation would lead you to need a 150mm lens and fast focussing? Who said that if you pictures aren't good enough you are not close enough?

BTW, the lens you want on a Canon APS-C camera is not the 70-200, but the 16-85. And there lies the problem in your reasoning: the biggest part of the "camera" will be the lens. What use is a tiny Nex 5 if you attach it a huge lens? The whole system "camera + lens" will roughly need the same size of bag on all brands.

I any case, the lens you want would be an equivalent of a 24/28mm to 135/150mm. This lens does not exist in the Nex or µ4/3 systems. You are limited to the basic kit lenses, which reach to 80-100mm equivalents. Moreover, these systems focus noticeably slower than a DSLR, especially by dim light. I find them "fast enough", but you said fast focussing was a major criteria.

Last but not least: do you want a viewfinder or do you compose on the screen? For me, it completely changes the way I take pictures, if I want to be fast and not too conspicuous.

Yes, Jerome, you've recognized the dilemma of having a tiny Sony NEX with a large lens, not to mention the price! I appreciate your input.

The Canon T3i is indeed a better and more economical choice especially, if one already owns the 24-105mm f 4.0. This stellar lens would act as a 38.4 to 168mm with the APS-C sized sensor. Also the lens is black and not white, (as my 70-200 L is) and almost 1/2 the length and weight; lighter and more subtle!

BTW, I have never agreed with getting close unless I wish to engage folk and photograph them in special light by a window, for example at f 1.2 to f2.8 where the DOF is thin.

I want the length to be able to sample what's there, but without perturbing the folk doing what they are doing.

Asher

Asher,

> I want the length to be able to sample what's there, but without perturbing the folk doing what they are doing.

This is the point, and from my point of view, any kind of larger lens makes you more visible.
One of the reasons why - while having an excellent 85/1.4 - I still keep my 85/2 because it is small and much less intrusive. You simply see it quickly when you have a big lump of glass pointed at you...

If it has to be APS-C, I would go for a small camera and a pancake lens and rely on the resolution for more distant subjects. Otherwise there is the X10...

Best regards,
Michael

Michael Nagel said:

Asher,

> I want the length to be able to sample what's there, but without perturbing the folk doing what they are doing.

This is the point, and from my point of view, any kind of larger lens makes you more visible.
One of the reasons why - while having an excellent 85/1.4 - I still keep my 85/2 because it is small and much less intrusive. You simply see it quickly when you have a big lump of glass pointed at you...

Click to expand...

Well put! The Canon EF 85mm 1.8 on T3i may be just right. Small mass 135mm equivalent focal length.

Michael Nagel said:

If it has to be APS-C, I would go for a small camera and a pancake lens and rely on the resolution for more distant subjects.

Click to expand...

I already have the GXR with the 50mm lens module so there's nothing better available at the focal length.

Michael Nagel said:

Otherwise there is the X10...

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That's a technical marvel and I'd love to own one, LOL! Perhaps it's even faster at grabbing focus, I do not know, but at "35 mm" it's unlikely to best the fabulous 50mm GXR I already use and am familiar with.

But of course, I might be too addicted with it already!

Asher

Michael Nagel said:

This is the point, and from my point of view, any kind of larger lens makes you more visible.

Click to expand...

The right question is why a photographer would want to make himself less visible and whether a less conspicuous camera is the way to achieve that.

Where do you best hide a tree? In a forest. Where do you best hide a book? In a library. Where to you best hide a photographer?

Asher Kelman said:

I already have the GXR with the 50mm lens module so there's nothing better available at the focal length.

Click to expand...

Try at least once the K-5 with the following DA-limiteds (DA 21/3.2, DA 40/2.8 and DA 70/2.4).
For what you intend, the DA 70 could be just fine.

The camera with one of these lenses is a small package, fast focusing and the image quality is very good. You have to see if the controls are OK for you.

I have the K-5 and the DA 40 - it is an excellent walkaround combination.

Best regards,
Michael

Jerome Marot said:

The right question is why a photographer would want to make himself less visible and whether a less conspicuous camera is the way to achieve that.

Click to expand...

For me it is the way to capture people in a more natural way. People noticing that they are photographed tend to put on a mask (not literally, but nearly somtimes), this is no longer natural.
A small camera is not the solution, but it can help in some cases. When you wield a big camera, people tend to take you more serious than with a smaller camera.
I think you know what I mean with natural portraits - otherwise I will have to ask some people if I can show these here.

Jerome Marot said:

Where do you best hide a tree? In a forest. Where do you best hide a book? In a library. Where to you best hide a photographer?

Click to expand...

In a bunch of photographers wielding big gear and using flash all the time

I think that behavior is the key and that you have to observe and act in a way that you do not appear as disturbance.

Best regards,
Michael

Michael Nagel said:

For me it is the way to capture people in a more natural way. People noticing that they are photographed tend to put on a mask (not literally, but nearly somtimes), this is no longer natural.
A small camera is not the solution, but it can help in some cases. When you wield a big camera, people tend to take you more serious than with a smaller camera.
I think you know what I mean with natural portraits - otherwise I will have to ask some people if I can show these here.


In a bunch of photographers wielding big gear and using flash all the time

I think that behavior is the key and that you have to observe and act in a way that you do not appear as disturbance.

Best regards,
Michael

Click to expand...

Michael,

You are right on about behavior. I usually appear as if I'm interested in something else, like a building.

For sure, the K5 does not look like a weird mating with a tiny NEX camera and a bulbous semi matte bright metal aluminum lens. For sure, that's one un-subtle way of getting noticed, LOL!

Technically, the Pentax K-5, appears, at least in specs, pretty advanced as it has a large dynamic range of 14 EV. That's amazing. The pancake lenses are featherweight and unobtrusive. So one can downsize the front of the camera.

I'm thinking that in January the GXR zoom module, 16MP APS-C up to 85mm effective, so that I can upgrade then by spending about $600. Alternatively for the same money, I can use my 24-105L lens for the T3i, also APS-C and shed 10 oz in weight while gaining an effective reach of ~ 38.4-168mm.

Probably the Canon is a better choice right now, in that I already have loads of Canon lenses. However, the Pentax is in my horoscope! How good are the MTF of the pancake lenses in the center of the image compared to the other lenses Pentax makes for the camera. Loss of detail at the periphery is often no issue for me, except when stitching.

Asher

Michael Nagel said:

In a bunch of photographers wielding big gear and using flash all the time

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Exactly. And Asher is heading to Venice, which is a city full of tourists taking pictures.

What I mean is that, in most places a tourist is likely to visit, a person taking pictures will not be noticed unless he or she uses a really large camera (1). It is not a real problem.


(1) e.g. a view camera on a tripod with a black cloth over the head...

Jerome Marot said:

Exactly. And Asher is heading to Venice, which is a city full of tourists taking pictures.

What I mean is that, in most places a tourist is likely to visit, a person taking pictures will not be noticed unless he or she uses a really large camera (1). It is not a real problem.


(1) e.g. a view camera on a tripod with a black cloth over the head...

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Actually, that's exactly how you'll find me and why I want a small camera! I'm taking my Globuscope 4x5, after I've tested it over the next week or so.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Actually, that's exactly how you'll find me and why I want a small camera! I'm taking my Globuscope 4x5, after I've tested it over the next week or so.

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I know. But then, the large, strange camera will make sure that any camera smaller than an EOS 1 with attached 300mm lens is likely to be unnoticed...

Is this perhaps an option? Cheap, Canon compatible, compact, fast focus, very versatile zoom range, can be converted to IR, etc.

Jerome Marot said:

The right question is why a photographer would want to make himself less visible and whether a less conspicuous camera is the way to achieve that.

Click to expand...

I really think that Jerome has a knack for asking the right questions. It is a pity that it does not always get recognized and discussed properly. In this case, there is the apparent question and there is the underlying question: which is ethics. I don't want to go off-topic in Asher's thread and I don't want to open up the can of worms either. But I thought it was quite a coincidence that I have run into this street photographer called Thomas Leuthard on the Internet. He has written a thought provoking book on street photography called Going Candid, which can be downloaded for free here. Even though I strongly disagree with this guy's code of conduct (I am of the old school it seems), I must confess that he provides a lot of useful info for conducting successful street photography. It might prove to be an interesting read, fwiw.

Michael Nagel said:

In a bunch of photographers wielding big gear and using flash all the time

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Either that, or stand next to the guy playing bagpipes ;-)

Cem_Usakligil said:

Is this perhaps an option? Cheap, Canon compatible, compact, fast focus, very versatile zoom range, can be converted to IR, etc.

Click to expand...

Cem,

Yes that's a great package and a trusted seller. However the camera weighs 28 oz v. the T3i at 18 oz. With the x1.6 multiplier, the effective focal length of a 24-105 mm my Canon L lens becomes ~ "38.4-168" mm a good range.

It does seem, according to dpreview, however that the NEX-7 will be better than all the other APS-C sensors currently available, in terms of resolution and noise. However, their good lens line up is expensive and very, very limited right now! There's a wonderful 24 mm Zeiss and average consumer level zooms. The 18-200 Zoom might be great aty ~$900 but a stellar lens at 24-85 would be lighter and better for us. We need to see MTF of the 18-200mm Sony E lens and actual picture data. Still, it's a long bulbous protrusion and has a range beyond what's needed when the multiplication factor of the APS-C size sensor is taken into account. A lighter 24-85 would be perfect for street shooting, and event photography and much lighter.

So at present, the T3i seems to be one of the best choices my existing 24-105L lens.

Will see what the new GXR 16 MP APS C 24-85 zoom module will be like. Hopefully it will deliver top-rank images and might compete more favorably with the NEX-7 sensor.
immediately make high quality pancake lenses to match the thin NEX-7 body I cannot imagine! If they did, the NEX-5 and NEX-7 would be the undisputed champions. Right now, the Pentax K-7 with its lightweight lenses seems to be the most convenient apart from the one lens for everything GXT 50mm Macro 2.5 module. I do have the 24-75 but the sensor is small and one can get those pictures by overlapping or cropping the 50mm modules frames.

Asher