Open Photography Forums  
HOME FORUMS NEWS FAQ SEARCH

Go Back   Open Photography Forums > Digital Camera Discussion > Medium Format & Large Format Cameras > Shooting with a HY6 and a Sinarback eMotion 75 LV. A diary of Nicolas Claris experience.

Shooting with a HY6 and a Sinarback eMotion 75 LV. A diary of Nicolas Claris experience. The Swiss brand Sinar has asked Nicolas Claris to shoot with a Sinar HY6 and a Sinarback eMotion 75 LV…

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old April 29th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
Administrator/Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenz Koch View Post
yet another picture of nicolas working hard ;)

I guess I was shooting this one ! (at least my horizon, if not completely horizontal, is not bent! ;-)

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old April 29th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
OPF Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Good advises Thierry!

But Loko/Lorenz came with a nice surprise for me… a rotating accessory for the back! that's very neat and absolutely necessary !
Although I've been told it won't work with the 45° prism finder ...

Bart
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old April 29th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Thierry Hagenauer Thierry Hagenauer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 266
Default

it does revolve, with the revolving adapter, both with the 45° prism and the 90° finder.

I have the camera in front of me.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Although I've been told it won't work with the 45° prism finder ...

Bart
__________________
Thierry Hagenauer
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old April 29th, 2008, 10:05 PM
Eric Hiss Eric Hiss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 275
Default differences between the cameras

Coming late to the party- welcome Lorenz.


Now I am wondering about the big differences in color and contrast between the two camera files. Lorenz looks like you had a polarizing filter on your canon, no? But I don't think that explains all the difference - Nicolas did you process your files in linear mode or with a film curve? They seem so much less crisp than I would expect especially since I am familiar with the 80mm PQS lens you've used - its very sharp with good contrast.

I think these helicopter/boat/wind in her hair type of shots are kind of screaming at you to use the fast PQS shutters the Hy6 has. Not just any MF camera can do 1/1000th. I read you used the small aperture for enough DOF, however I'm wondering if you backed away enough to use a wider aperture and faster shutter if you wouldn't end up with an image that could be cropped and still sharper?
__________________
Eric W. Hiss
www.eh21.com
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old April 29th, 2008, 10:59 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
Administrator/Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,275
Default

A quick note Eric, as I do have a feet oudoor, leaving for another photoshoot (with an horrible weater forecast, but the client said to come anyway… :-{!

I think the difference of colors comes from the PP, I always process in order to have no burned highlights, which obviously is not the case of Lorenz shots…
If I would accept more contrats I'm quite sure that crispness would be there, as well as a "postcard look"…

I'm still fighting with the good compromise to find between DOF/Shutter/ISO until now I have, IMO, to much protected the DOF.
For the next shoot, weather permitting (light!) I'll shoot ISO 400 at 1/500s, adjusting ƒ…

Your solution to shoot wider from more far away and crop is an idea, but in that case I do prefer to downsize the existing files, it works very well to recover some crispness, but I haven't post such for the sake of truth…

I also tried to the 40 mm, but it's manual focusing only and therefore ads one more step in the process. For now I do have enough to do before pressing the shutter!

We'll get back next Monday!

Thanks all for your inputs and comments…

PS downsizing for the web from 6668 to 1100 pixels does not desserve the IQ… the difference of behavior is amazing … look at the shot "from the sky" (post #19) and the last posted one…
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old April 30th, 2008, 12:04 AM
Lorenz Koch Lorenz Koch is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
I think the difference of colors comes from the PP, I always process in order to have no burned highlights, which obviously is not the case of Lorenz shots…
i admit to enhance and adjust the contrast as well as the colours in pp. although i try not to burn too many of the highlights either. since my pictures rarely go to print i try to make them look good for screen viewing. hence the difference.

and no.. i did not use a polarizer.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old April 30th, 2008, 04:27 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
OPF Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thierry Hagenauer View Post
it does revolve, with the revolving adapter, both with the 45° prism and the 90° finder.
Great, thanks for the info! What was told to me was apparently wrong.

Bart
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old April 30th, 2008, 04:51 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
OPF Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
PS downsizing for the web from 6668 to 1100 pixels does not desserve the IQ… the difference of behavior is amazing … look at the shot "from the sky" (post #19) and the last posted one…
Downsizing for the web is essentially the same as other downsizing, except that the low physical resolution of our displays (approx. 0.25 mm pitch) shows the shortcomings of the algorithms 'better'. There are few resampling implementations that do it well. Most image processing software uses poorly implemented downsampling, including Adobe Photoshop, which hurts IQ.

My guess is that downsampling with ImageMagick and using the "-filter quadratic" parameter with resizing will give good results for this type of subject on a camera without AA-filter. Following up with a minor sharpening should result in crisp results for Web publishing. Maybe another filter will be even better, but I'd have to test that on an actual image (crop) from the Hy6 showing some aliasing sensitive detail (lines and edges at an angle).

Bart
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old April 30th, 2008, 05:02 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
Administrator/Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Downsizing for the web is essentially the same as other downsizing, except that the low physical resolution of our displays (approx. 0.25 mm pitch) shows the shortcomings of the algorithms 'better'. There are few resampling implementations that do it well. Most image processing software uses poorly implemented downsampling, including Adobe Photoshop, which hurts IQ.

My guess is that downsampling with ImageMagick and using the "-filter quadratic" parameter with resizing will give good results for this type of subject on a camera without AA-filter. Following up with a minor sharpening should result in crisp results for Web publishing. Maybe another filter will be even better, but I'd have to test that on an actual image (crop) from the Hy6 showing some aliasing sensitive detail (lines and edges at an angle).

Bart
Ha! I knew that you'll come on this one! thanks agian Bart,

ThoughI do not do "save for the web" but export as JPEG… still the issue is there… I'll surely give a trto imagemagick.com when I'll be back in Bordeaux…
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old April 30th, 2008, 05:07 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
Administrator/Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,275
Default

Bart

you have a 16 bit tif crop on my FTP server… same login and pass as last time…
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old April 30th, 2008, 08:25 AM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
pro member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 953
Default

Good subject for testing the Hy6 MF system, congratulations and I'm happy to see that all the "digital back killer cameras" will have a hard time finishing something like this, no? after all IQ is king, especially with products like this boats...

Just one question. Is there a reason why not to use UV filter and hood? someone told me that you gain a noticeable amount of contrast just by attaching the old good hood in front of the lens, and in the case of a fixed 80mm even more so since you don't have to zoom in and out.

keep the good work (and keep posting images about it)
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old April 30th, 2008, 09:27 AM
Thierry Hagenauer Thierry Hagenauer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 266
Default

I agree with you, Leonardo. One can loose up to 2 f-stops from the whole dynamic range, which is enormous, when not using a lens protection.

One can make a simple test: shoot a small object on a white background, with and without lens protection (bellows or lens hood). One shall be surprised.

Thierry

Quote:
Originally Posted by leonardobarreto.com View Post
Just one question. Is there a reason why not to use UV filter and hood? someone told me that you gain a noticeable amount of contrast just by attaching the old good hood in front of the lens, and in the case of a fixed 80mm even more so since you don't have to zoom in and out.
__________________
Thierry Hagenauer
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old April 30th, 2008, 11:41 AM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
pro member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 953
Default

... there is nothing like a nice hood on a camera, it is a small detail, but for me is like the neck tie, represents the entire outfit. For example, the hood in cine cameras has always made an impression on me, how it represents the format of the film the are shooting with. Same with the new HD digital camcorders, the really good ones have a cine camera look. And what about the hood of the Leica lenses? on the other side, I find repelling the idea of all the tourists walking around with a 24mm-300mm ZOOM and a ridiculous hood at the end of it. How can you have a hood when your lens goes from super wide to super tele?? there is no balance, no beauty of the machine ... and the resulting image is probably as unappealing as well.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 01:29 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 32,305
Default

I was diverted today and then WOW! suddenly a helicopter. I was sea sick just looking at the figures hanging out over the water. congrats, I'll revisit in the am! Next time I had better fly over!

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 07:22 AM
Nathaniel Alpert Nathaniel Alpert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 168
Default A treat!

Nicholas,

I have finally overcome my anxiety threshold, to comment on your work. It's been a treat to see the kind of quality work done by a professional photographer. I am a photographic amateur, a wannabe, who has been thrilled with the move from conventional imaging to digital. Thrilled that I could do so much than I did with 35 mm film. Now, to see the sort of thing you are able to accomplish raises the bar to unimaginable heights. The work with this new Sinar is breathtaking in its detail and quality. I am really enjoying the vicarious observation of what goes into a commercial shoot. Thanks for sharing this with the members of OPF.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old May 3rd, 2008, 08:20 PM
David A. Goldfarb David A. Goldfarb is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 236
Default

Out of curiosity, shooting from helicopters and chase boats, particularly with long lenses, have you used a gyro platform? I would have thought that would be standard equipment for this kind of work.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old May 5th, 2008, 04:07 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
Administrator/Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,275
Default

Thanks for the kind words Nathaniel!
You don't have to feel any anxiety! And it's my aim to share, give and receive… these are among the best reasons we did settle OPF with Asher… so next time do not hesitate to comment, critique or just ask.
In photography (as everywhere else) the're no dum questions…
I'm sure you would have a lot to tech me within your own pro field…
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old May 5th, 2008, 04:11 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
Administrator/Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
Out of curiosity, shooting from helicopters and chase boats, particularly with long lenses, have you used a gyro platform? I would have thought that would be standard equipment for this kind of work.
Hi David
for some good reasons…

• a few years ago it was just out of budget
• we're most of the time shooting both vidoe and photos
• we shoot in so many different places over the World that we would never be sure to find some Gyro to rent
• we can't afford bying 2 Gyros (even 1!)
• last but not least, I don' think that for the kind of work we do, it is necessary… look at this shot
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old May 5th, 2008, 04:27 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
OPF Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
• last but not least, I don' think that for the kind of work we do, it is necessary… look at this shot
That's right, you've got gyros built into the lens, and you can change your view or pan much faster than a gyro platform would allow.

Bart
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old May 5th, 2008, 05:48 AM
David A. Goldfarb David A. Goldfarb is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Hi David
for some good reasons…

• a few years ago it was just out of budget
• we're most of the time shooting both vidoe and photos
• we shoot in so many different places over the World that we would never be sure to find some Gyro to rent
• we can't afford bying 2 Gyros (even 1!)
• last but not least, I don' think that for the kind of work we do, it is necessary… look at this shot
Thanks for the reply Nicolas. You're definitely getting fine results with the camera. It's great to see people using medium or large format for action photography, which is such a difficult task, even with a small format camera.

In general I'd think budget would be the main issue, but then again, you're not exactly using a low-budget camera, and you've got some high budget clients. Since Sinar is supplying the Hy6 and wants to use the images to promote the camera, if I understand the situation accurately, they surely want to show it at its best. I think Lorenz and Thierry are just going to have to loan you a gyro. With the weak dollar, a Kenyon Labs KS-6 should be a bargain (currently $2800).
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old May 5th, 2008, 08:49 AM
Thierry Hagenauer Thierry Hagenauer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 266
Default

... it's Lorenz who is holding the wallet (full or empty, I don't know)!

Thierry

Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
I think Lorenz and Thierry are just going to have to loan you a gyro. (currently $2800).
__________________
Thierry Hagenauer
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old May 5th, 2008, 09:49 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
Administrator/Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thierry Hagenauer View Post
... it's Lorenz who is holding the wallet (full or empty, I don't know)!

Thierry
I'd preferred the new back to go easy with 800 ISO ;-) then get moooooore speed!
This would enhance the camera capabilities, and if I do the same (enhance my capabilities) we'll be on track!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:31 AM.


Posting images or text grants license to OPF, yet © of such remain with its creator. Still, all assembled discussion © 2006-2017 Asher Kelman (all rights reserved) Posts with new theme or unusual image might be moved/copied to a new thread!