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Art Theory: Idea workshop. Warning, not the truth here, just a venture. Examining what makes an image worthy of saving and what it does for us.

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  #31  
Old May 30th, 2011, 03:26 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Bussa View Post
Another:

Edward,

I missed this one... reading between the two you have posted allows me a space... the play of focus works poetically... there are more - post them... thanks for contributing..

cheers
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  #32  
Old June 15th, 2011, 12:43 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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and so the image moves on - a focus on detail that hardly rendered - a pull from the right - and bit of colour for the purple and blue sick out there....










it.er.toton - M Hampton


cheers peeps
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  #33  
Old June 16th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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and so the image moves on - a focus on detail that hardly rendered - a pull from the right - and bit of colour for the purple and blue sick out there....




it.er.toton - M Hampton
Maple syrup and cream in my coffee and licorice sticks...
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  #34  
Old July 11th, 2011, 03:38 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Edward Bussa View Post
Maple syrup and cream in my coffee and licorice sticks...
but is it coffee or cream









never sure - so I have both !
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  #35  
Old July 12th, 2011, 01:06 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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so - moving swiftly on - I have started to explore other aspects of reading - the blur versus the sharp - contrast - simple colour (blue/purple) - how our eye moves around a frame (and find meaning or not in the frame) ((this is mentioned in another thread - that never strays to the use of a measure or science (((however bad or good that is )))...

context controls where the eye moves - but the image can control what is perceived -

















I hope this makes sense !

cheers
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  #36  
Old July 22nd, 2011, 03:04 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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interesting

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0720091542.htm


measuring
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  #37  
Old August 25th, 2011, 03:19 AM
Lawrence Brussel Lawrence Brussel is offline
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Amazing artistic work by all of the member.

Thanks for posting . Its such a great inspiration for me.
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  #38  
Old August 25th, 2011, 10:40 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence Brussel View Post
Amazing artistic work by all of the member.

Thanks for posting . Its such a great inspiration for me.
Lawrence,

you are correct - I think this thread contains the best work on the whole net, and also some of my sketches.

I do need to add to it !

Did you manage to flip the above images ?

cheers
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  #39  
Old August 25th, 2011, 02:08 PM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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May I also play?



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  #40  
Old August 26th, 2011, 02:46 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil View Post
May I also play?




Cem,

your most welcome to play - in your image above the focus has shifted from the seemingly solid (Glass - ironically is a liquid) to the condensed water - an image about change perhaps - about the process ? the colour is better than most photographers manage as it fits (for me) within these ideas and further supports my reading.

Whether this is what is ment by the photographer is irrelevant - its the reader who forms the image anew - within their own context.

When making work... how something can be read is the most important aspect of the work (for me). Within photography we as makers have the ability to move the mind around the frame with a purpose (hopefully).

what can it mean when an image is focused from front to back?

does it key a democratic vision?

or does it miss the point of photography all together?

answers on a post card please !
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  #41  
Old August 26th, 2011, 09:36 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil View Post
May I also play?



Cem,

With the colors, one is pulled towards beauty as it's seems coded for the sky and waters off Bodrum for me. It's so different from Mark's intellectual images which I read differently.

Asher
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  #42  
Old August 26th, 2011, 10:05 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Mark,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hampton View Post
Whether this is what is ment by the photographer is irrelevant - its the reader who forms the image anew - within their own context.
Well said.

Of course that doesn't apply in the case where the hope of the photographer is that the image will in fact illustrate some objective point - perhaps exactly where one must push on a computer case to make it come apart.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #43  
Old August 26th, 2011, 10:40 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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QUOTE=Mark Hampton;119842]
Whether this is what is ment by the photographer is irrelevent" - its the reader who forms the image anew - within their own context. [/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Mark,


Well said.

Of course that doesn't apply in the case where the hope of the photographer is that the image will in fact illustrate some objective point - perhaps exactly where one must push on a computer case to make it come apart.

Best regards,

Doug
Well, Mark,

Not perhaps, "irrelevent" is too strong. Rather the artist has generously provided building blocks for the observer to build and experience with free input from their own imaginations. That's the intent of the artist from the outset.

Asher
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  #44  
Old August 26th, 2011, 02:15 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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I think that I'm agreeing with you, Asher. When we provide the building blocks I think that we are mapping the visual surface (I was going to say 2 dimentional but that is perhaps irrelevent") to guide the viewer toward our experience.

Last edited by Asher Kelman; October 3rd, 2011 at 02:26 PM.
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  #45  
Old August 26th, 2011, 03:53 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McCarthy View Post

I think that I'm agreeing with you, Asher. When we provide the building blocks I think that we are mapping the visual surface (I was going to say 2 dimentional but that is perhaps irrelevent") to guide the viewer toward our experience.
Bill,

hi and welcome to this thread - nice image of stone and light ....

how does it fit in ?

is it an illustration of an event (Dougie) rocks birthday ... is it a measure in some crude way of how much light you had measured wee your gear?

can you explain how this image fits into the previous information on the thread?

Asher,

once the image is made - burned - it is the viewers - they make the image in their own mind... you have no idea if what you see is the image that was produced .... or your invention

just a couple of thoughts




*

Last edited by Asher Kelman; October 3rd, 2011 at 02:26 PM.
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  #46  
Old August 30th, 2011, 02:57 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hampton View Post
Bill,

hi and welcome to this thread - nice image of stone and light ....

how does it fit in ?

is it an illustration of an event (Dougie) rocks birthday ... is it a measure in some crude way of how much light you had measured wee your gear?

can you explain how this image fits into the previous information on the thread?

Asher,

once the image is made - burned - it is the viewers - they make the image in their own mind... you have no idea if what you see is the image that was produced .... or your invention

just a couple of thoughts




*
Hi Mark, and thanks for your comments. We have been dealing with hurricane Irene, and I have not had any electric or web connection to get on line. It’s getting a little better now. Just to be clear with your second question, I do not consider my photographs as illustrations (while I like the idea that these organic objects have a moment of birth) of course you could say that anything and everything we do is illustrative but that’s a different conversation and I would be on the “not really” side). But to jump out of the Rod Stewart “Every picture tells a story, don’t it” and into the discussion of eye tracking or eye gaze, I want to say that I read all of the entries to this topic, and found it very interesting. Certainly in the “old” days of art school, composition classes spent a lot of time talking about how one enters a picture and how you move around the surface of an object. And yes, Rembrandt was a master of surface to eye manipulation. I am familiar with foveated imaging techniques and enjoyed seeing the many posted images. As for the image I posted, it comes with a lot of baggage from past experiences (not to introduce new topics, but I see each of my images as an individual object). While my visual experience is to incorporate into the object (image) characteristics that will build for the viewer, an experience “similar” to mine (which was a level of comfort that caused me to create the object in the first place). So first, I don’t know what the meaning of Rocks is, or clouds or vistas from the tops of mountains or spectacular sunsets or mud puddles, but I do know that I, like others, are moved visually and emotionally by many unspoken things. So back to eye gaze and the use of foveated imaging techniques, I work to solidify the object so that the viewer might spend enough time visually moving about the image in a way that they will enjoy the experience. I have done this by isolating small areas and changing the sharpness and/or the contrast in subtle ways so that certain lines or shapes are spotted, not all at once, but step by step. And that is what I meant when I agreed with Asher when I acknowledged “building blocks and mapping the surface”. I perhaps should have shown an object that had greater depth of field qualities, but this is the one that came to mind for me.
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  #47  
Old August 31st, 2011, 11:17 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McCarthy View Post
Hi Mark, and thanks for your comments. We have been dealing with hurricane Irene, and I have not had any electric or web connection to get on line. It’s getting a little better now. Just to be clear with your second question, I do not consider my photographs as illustrations (while I like the idea that these organic objects have a moment of birth) of course you could say that anything and everything we do is illustrative but that’s a different conversation and I would be on the “not really” side). But to jump out of the Rod Stewart “Every picture tells a story, don’t it” and into the discussion of eye tracking or eye gaze, I want to say that I read all of the entries to this topic, and found it very interesting. Certainly in the “old” days of art school, composition classes spent a lot of time talking about how one enters a picture and how you move around the surface of an object. And yes, Rembrandt was a master of surface to eye manipulation. I am familiar with foveated imaging techniques and enjoyed seeing the many posted images. As for the image I posted, it comes with a lot of baggage from past experiences (not to introduce new topics, but I see each of my images as an individual object). While my visual experience is to incorporate into the object (image) characteristics that will build for the viewer, an experience “similar” to mine (which was a level of comfort that caused me to create the object in the first place). So first, I don’t know what the meaning of Rocks is, or clouds or vistas from the tops of mountains or spectacular sunsets or mud puddles, but I do know that I, like others, are moved visually and emotionally by many unspoken things. So back to eye gaze and the use of foveated imaging techniques, I work to solidify the object so that the viewer might spend enough time visually moving about the image in a way that they will enjoy the experience. I have done this by isolating small areas and changing the sharpness and/or the contrast in subtle ways so that certain lines or shapes are spotted, not all at once, but step by step. And that is what I meant when I agreed with Asher when I acknowledged “building blocks and mapping the surface”. I perhaps should have shown an object that had greater depth of field qualities, but this is the one that came to mind for me.
Bill,
thanks for your reply - Irene was downgraded to a Scottish summer i think - glad you survived it.

you have raised a number of interesting points - I would like to see some of your images that use the selective sharpening technique as applied to images - i think it’s very relevant to the topic.

there as i have pointed out not any original thinking in the thread - the information is a collection of bad science (the eye tracking work) - hunches and thoughts - there are still uncertainties in how information is processed in the visual cortex (if it is) and delivered to the mind’s eye (if it is) but, i find moving outside of fine art photography history a more rewarding way of making work.

The baggage from the emergence of photography as an art form is still well and truly around the necks of many practitioners. Using even bad science to me seems preferable than say the nostalgic vision of AA or Weston’s' mixed with the 18c vista painters – man that’s another topic - in todays world (unless of course it ironic).

the goal when starting the thread was to open the topic of reading. asking people to think before they make. Yours is the only sharpie that has been posted. i am glad you posted one. Your explanation of being moved by unspoken things reminds me of Thomas Joshua Cooper and his atlas project (charting the atlantic bason) in his own words

“Location finding, initially an instinctive activity, tells us nothing at all about any particular space. Pictures themselves detail nothing in any real particular way. My pictures are of common recognizable sea spaces, always different, like fingerprints, but not immediately identifiable or recognizable. These accumulative picture-spaces could be anywhere or everywhere. Yet the collective results that continue to drive, inform and complete the Atlas may well tell us something about a more difficult and allusive territory of human concern.”


opps a long post . i am dizzy - i feel a blurry image coming down ----







10 images of a windows surface – M Hampton




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  #48  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 02:08 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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Here are a couple more, but hopefully you see something other than the selective sharpening or the maneuvered contrast (it is there . . . but really a topic only as it applies to this topic). In much of this, I am reminded, for some obscure reason, of an exhibition (I never saw) called The New Landscape in Art and Science which was put together by Gyorgy Kepes and is also the title of a book that he first published in 1956 (I bought the 1963 printing). In it, he showed photographs of landscapes that most of us had never seen. Microscopic views, images from space, macros of milk droplets, Xrays of common natural objects and so on. I would have posted a link, but while he, his books and bio are on the net, I could only refer to my hard copy which smells a bit musty .


He has lots of quotes from the past, and quotes from many contemporary artists.
But in reference to your comment “there are still uncertainties in how information is processed in the visual cortex (if it is) and delivered to the mind’s eye (if it is)” I was reminded of a quote from the book which took a quote from “Buddhism in Translation” which said “The eye does not see forms, inasmuch as it is not the mind, and the mind does not see forms, inasmuch as it is not the eye. But when the object of sense meets the organ of sense, a person sees with the mind by means of the sensitiveness of the eye. The phrase to “see with the eye” makes mention only of the instrument, as when it is said, “He wounds with his bow.” Accordingly, the sense is, with his eye consciousness he sees form.

Similarly, and used in the same book (The New Landscape), a quote from William Blake, “Man’s desires are limited by his perceptions; none can desire what he has not perceived, “ followed by, “Man, by his reasoning power can only compare and judge what he has already perceived.”

Your dizzying image seems calming and still to me now. Did I mention I like it?

Last edited by Asher Kelman; October 3rd, 2011 at 02:27 PM.
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  #49  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 03:22 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Bill,

this image for me is time/timelessness - I feel the plastic nature of rock - the photograph moves outside a record/model of the subject and becomes an object - it is not about the thing - the rock - it is about the things - light/shade/time...

i cannot with my mind be in that place... i can only imagine the smell.... feel the light reflected into my eyes.. the work has moved beyond where it was made...

the landscape as metaphor ... tantalize ...

thanks for posting this work.... and I will keep a look out for Kepes .. looks like an interesting read...


i think I can move on from focus - and look at grain - what could that mean ?
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  #50  
Old September 11th, 2011, 01:10 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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ok - bill went to sleep on me.

this is the backgtound music to the thread

so onto grain - we will just call this grain - I am not talking about film here - if your only interested in film look away !

Doug and Bart through threads on here started me thinking - a bit of information crawled into my mind - the sensor in DSLR get pre heated - cooked to allow it to acept the photons and burn them into information (really short version) - this pre burn is visible when you rate you iso high - and make an image with your lens cap on - using the highest shutter speed you have - and then altering the exposure in your favourite cooking program.






the image above may seem black - its not - its the charge on my sensor.

so what can this mean - the idea that there is a background of information recorded that all DSLR image are made from - a foundation.

when we look into the sky there is also a background noise (grain) there are maps of this and understanding it may answer some deep questions about the universe (s) ... or it my not !

but it exists as does the background noise from your sensor - below I have used this - i use it in my work when i need a sense of uncertainty - when the reflexted surface I have measured needs to move apart - seem to be disintegrating - and in doing so may allow us to gaze upon something in one sence more primitive and in another more complex..






its.way.on - M Hampton


does anyone else have any thought on this?
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  #51  
Old September 11th, 2011, 01:20 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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its.way.on - M Hampton


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hampton
does anyone else have any thought on this?
Mark,

Did you include any processes to recruit background noise that you refer to?

Asher
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  #52  
Old September 11th, 2011, 02:11 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post



its.way.on - M Hampton



Mark,

Did you include any processes to recruit background noise that you refer to?

Asher
Asher,

song for this post ! (click it)


fast shutter speed - the one above us 1/2000s - f2.8 - iso 25600.

I don't use anything to make the noise/grain larger - i just dont get rid ov it.

- other than that - conversion to b&W yellow filter (PS) - split tone (ACR) - level tweek (PS).. in the b&w converstion you can use different filters to bring out grain / reduce - i think its dependent upon the sensor but someone else will ken more about that - all i ken is that my sensor has a green bias..

when i ken i need the grain huge - i stand further away and then smash the image in enlargement - the enlarging algorithms in PS are interesting ....







101 - M Hampton

it's not so much an effect as an approach - when working with paper/ chemicals etc we learned how everything worked - changed things and made our own cooked devs / toners etc - as did almost everyone who worked that way - this system has been be explored and used in the same ways ... but not to create something cool - but to support the subject of the work - which in my case is almost never the represented thing that you may think you see....

opps - typing frnzy.soz.ken
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  #53  
Old September 16th, 2011, 10:25 AM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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Mark,
sorry, but not asleep, just away without any internet. Love Queen, but Arab Strap sits back well for me as I look at your two posts.

I really like “Its.way.on”.

Other than web, what presentation method will you use for this piece? Seeing it on my monitor is a rewarding experience, but I would love to see this in a more monumental presentation. The surface detail is beautiful and very painterly.

I wonder what you mean when you say that “i think I can move on from focus - and look at grain.” Realizing that technique is a necessity for any creation (and I find this a fascinating process), I am reminded of a teacher, many years back, who came to class and told us that she was going to show us something that wasn’t there, but that we all would see. After having us look intensely at a high contrast shape, she had us stare at a blank piece of paper. One by one each of us began to see the “after image” in a magical glow onto our blank papers (reversed of course- black was white and white was black, and when we added colored shapes the after images were the compliment of the color). We were told that it was related to the “burn” of reflective light on the rods and cones in our eyes. It was absolute magic for us. Over the years I’ve continued to note this even in live situations, but for the most part it’s use was limited (for me) to seeing what the exact compliment of a color was.

So now, in your scenario, the photons are capturing the burn and perhaps giving us an enlightened layer to work with or from. Even in my jet lag haze I’m getting excited. I love seeing things that aren’t supposed to be there. In “101” the ghostly heads remain hard for me not to see, and I think that it’s the focus that has my attention rather than the gorgeous grain.

Like me, you may be asking “so what?”.
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  #54  
Old September 18th, 2011, 11:05 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Quote:
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Mark,
sorry, but not asleep, just away without any internet. Love Queen, but Arab Strap sits back well for me as I look at your two posts.

I really like “Its.way.on”.

Other than web, what presentation method will you use for this piece? Seeing it on my monitor is a rewarding experience, but I would love to see this in a more monumental presentation. The surface detail is beautiful and very painterly.

I wonder what you mean when you say that “i think I can move on from focus - and look at grain.” Realizing that technique is a necessity for any creation (and I find this a fascinating process), I am reminded of a teacher, many years back, who came to class and told us that she was going to show us something that wasn’t there, but that we all would see. After having us look intensely at a high contrast shape, she had us stare at a blank piece of paper. One by one each of us began to see the “after image” in a magical glow onto our blank papers (reversed of course- black was white and white was black, and when we added colored shapes the after images were the compliment of the color). We were told that it was related to the “burn” of reflective light on the rods and cones in our eyes. It was absolute magic for us. Over the years I’ve continued to note this even in live situations, but for the most part it’s use was limited (for me) to seeing what the exact compliment of a color was.

So now, in your scenario, the photons are capturing the burn and perhaps giving us an enlightened layer to work with or from. Even in my jet lag haze I’m getting excited. I love seeing things that aren’t supposed to be there. In “101” the ghostly heads remain hard for me not to see, and I think that it’s the focus that has my attention rather than the gorgeous grain.

Like me, you may be asking “so what?”.
Bill,

just watched the old firm match and I am happy - i had a thought -

linky -

the above uses grain / light / focus and describes its subject... many thanks for the reply and I will reply in full and move onto the burn !

cheers
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  #55  
Old September 19th, 2011, 10:21 PM
Anna Lee Anna Lee is offline
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Why you like taking photo black&white? From these three pictures, i see a desolate and hot place, i feel hot waves in the air, but don't know where it is.
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  #56  
Old September 19th, 2011, 10:23 PM
Anna Lee Anna Lee is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Hampton View Post
back from Spain - where it was hot...






race.race.race - M Hampton


will post a bit more about this in travel - but it works within this thread.

cheers
Sorry, Mark, i mean this.
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  #57  
Old September 20th, 2011, 10:32 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McCarthy View Post
Mark,
sorry, but not asleep, just away without any internet. Love Queen, but Arab Strap sits back well for me as I look at your two posts.

I really like “Its.way.on”.

Other than web, what presentation method will you use for this piece? Seeing it on my monitor is a rewarding experience, but I would love to see this in a more monumental presentation. The surface detail is beautiful and very painterly.

I wonder what you mean when you say that “i think I can move on from focus - and look at grain.” Realizing that technique is a necessity for any creation (and I find this a fascinating process), I am reminded of a teacher, many years back, who came to class and told us that she was going to show us something that wasn’t there, but that we all would see. After having us look intensely at a high contrast shape, she had us stare at a blank piece of paper. One by one each of us began to see the “after image” in a magical glow onto our blank papers (reversed of course- black was white and white was black, and when we added colored shapes the after images were the compliment of the color). We were told that it was related to the “burn” of reflective light on the rods and cones in our eyes. It was absolute magic for us. Over the years I’ve continued to note this even in live situations, but for the most part it’s use was limited (for me) to seeing what the exact compliment of a color was.

So now, in your scenario, the photons are capturing the burn and perhaps giving us an enlightened layer to work with or from. Even in my jet lag haze I’m getting excited. I love seeing things that aren’t supposed to be there. In “101” the ghostly heads remain hard for me not to see, and I think that it’s the focus that has my attention rather than the gorgeous grain.

Like me, you may be asking “so what?”.
Bill,

“Its.way.on” and scale - man I dont have an idea. I made it for the thread - so if there was a scale or presentation it would be as is. That may change. It follows alot of work I have been making in relation to windows. Thanks for the comments in relation to the tonality its appreciated.

In moving on from focus - the point is to examine how we could/can read (and write) focus is not the whole - as the gaze is not the whole of the story. I understand I have not even scratched the surface in relation to focus - but I have mabey got people thinking outside of the everything in focus malaise that seems to infect photography.

As a contributor - Bring back focus - we can focus on it again!

Ah burn - i close my eyes and make images from the light that left a trace - it may only be imagined - but as I understand the process of seeing most of what I think i see is. Video work that i working on at the moment uses the premises that if i intercut fast paced images that are contrasty - then each person will have made their own video up (so far its not gone down to well !)

but the Burn I was looking at was the photon is burned in the sensor to create a signal stronger than the background charge - it becomes like a fluctuation in the background radiation - that then becomes a galaxy - or the image.

In 101 - the image is made of an audience - sitting in the auditorium listening to so god offal Scottish folk music - they are sick with nostalgia. captivated by whats happening on stage and also in their own worlds. reliving and running through their memories to escape.

ok need to pack.

will update later.
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  #58  
Old September 20th, 2011, 10:35 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Lee View Post
Why you like taking photo black&white? From these three pictures, i see a desolate and hot place, i feel hot waves in the air, but don't know where it is.
Anna,

I make the photo purple and blue - they are my favourite colours ! - the image is not realy of a place its an image. i hope that makes sense of sorts.

cheers
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  #59  
Old September 21st, 2011, 01:58 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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Ok Mark,
I’m not ready to leave the grain yet, so I tried your sensor burn idea. Processed the burn, worked on the color and levels, changed to grey scale, etc, and I liked what I got (not what I expected but ok).


Then I opened the last photo shot before the burn and layered a gray scale version with the burn. Manipulated a second burn level to remove grain from stump and reduce grain size to some of the foreground.


Next, here is the take in color with the grain.


And last, just the camera image processed from the raw.


I think I would want to be looking for the grain before I snapped the shutter, as I tend to want to previsualize what I am doing. So I had a good time but am now thinking about how I might work this into future efforts. The grain (for me) adds a surface that begins to come forward giving a flattened look. I like that. But I think I like the grain image alone almost as much as I like the original subject. It’s too early to tell.

Last edited by Asher Kelman; October 3rd, 2011 at 02:03 PM.
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  #60  
Old September 24th, 2011, 01:52 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Bill,

I've been trying to follow your processing. Could you outline, just for clarity, what you are trying to achieve and how if any it differs from or perhaps salutes or pays homage to Marks own ideas. This will help me understanding the context of your changes, the purposes and esthetic framework for the elements to do their work.

Thanks so much.

.........................................

Mark,

As the "authority" here on the very subject, of Reading the reading", where are we on this artistic journey. Is seemed or deemed to be Bill recruited, a traveler in the same tour bus with one common leg in different journeys or someone on the side of the road waving a flag of some sort, wishing you well, or something like that?

Asher
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