• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Just for Fun No C&C will be given: Veer Bahadur

Prateek Dubey

New member
22800-fullsize.jpg


Prateek Dubey : Veer Bahadur

This little boy was shivering after an early morning bath in the cold of January. I found him soaking the sun. To my surprise and delight when I asked his name, he replied 'Veer Bahadur'. Veer Bahadur stands for 'Brave Brave', as both words have the same meaning. I thought how, sometimes events unfurl so precisely. The mural on the wall is actually a part of an advertisement for a cement company.
Looking closely at a larger print later, I discovered that he was wearing bright red nailpolish on all his toes....
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This chance alignment only happens to the prepared!

The shadow thrusting in from the left makes the composition so much stronger. I really like this picture. To what extent does color make the picture work? I'd love to see this in B&W to learn if such a picture has a different experience for us rendered in B&W without color to signal emotions.

BTW, Prateek, is it common to see nail polish on boys toes? Is this instead of shoes? Does it signify anything else?

Asher
 

Prateek Dubey

New member
This chance alignment only happens to the prepared!

The shadow thrusting in from the left makes the composition so much stronger. I really like this picture. To what extent does color make the picture work? I'd love to see this in B&W to learn if such a picture has a different experience for us rendered in B&W without color to signal emotions.

BTW, Prateek, is it common to see nail polish on boys toes? Is this instead of shoes? Does it signify anything else?

Asher

Hello Asher,
The colors throw the boy in a corner. With one wall blue and the other fiery red. So I kind of got stuck to the emotional connect . However your idea of B&W is very interesting and a point I hadn't explored yet. The problem is that I can't find a way to upload pictures straight from the computer.
It is not normal to have little boys wearing nailpolish. He was also wearing red vermillion on his feet. I guess he was part of a performance for his school or temple, where he may have played the part of a goddess...That is very common..
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
So, are these wonderful colors needed? What do might we find in B&W?

22800-fullsize.jpg


Prateek Dubey : Veer Bahadur

Well, Prateek,

for sure, the original picture in color is captivating at the very first glance. One of course feels for the child. But does it depend on the color for our emotional reaction. Sometimes, color signals may just bring a lot of stirring up of energy, but not necessarily clarity. So let's look at a black and white version:


22800-fullsize.jpg


Prateek Dubey : Veer Bahadur: B&W conversion AK

Here the lad is set between two diverging stretches of concrete. He is the clear subject and star of the image. Everything is balanced around this one concept. He stands alone, but in a way, he now has mastery of this tiny little corner of a street that would otherwise be forgotten. I do feel that B&W does give this image more power, freed of the decorative but rather irrelevant weights of the color on the matter of the picture, the boy and the concrete and drawing.

Asher
 

Prateek Dubey

New member
22800-fullsize.jpg


Prateek Dubey : Veer Bahadur

Well, Prateek,

for sure, the original picture in color is captivating at the very first glance. One of course feels for the child. But does it depend on the color for our emotional reaction. Sometimes, color signals may just bring a lot of stirring up of energy, but not necessarily clarity. So let's look at a black and white version:


22800-fullsize.jpg


Prateek Dubey : Veer Bahadur: B&W conversion AK

Here the lad is set between two diverging stretches of concrete. He is the clear subject and star of the image. Everything is balanced around this one concept. He stands alone, but in a way, he now has mastery of this tiny little corner of a street that would otherwise be forgotten. I do feel that B&W does give this image more power, freed of the decorative but rather irrelevant weights of the color on the matter of the picture, the boy and the concrete and drawing.

Asher

Hello Asher,
Yes, I agree with you. Though I admit first the thought of B&W came as a shock to me. I hadn't thought of it that way at all. Thank you so much.
 
Here the lad is set between two diverging stretches of concrete. He is the clear subject and star of the image. Everything is balanced around this one concept. He stands alone, but in a way, he now has mastery of this tiny little corner of a street that would otherwise be forgotten. I do feel that B&W does give this image more power, freed of the decorative but rather irrelevant weights of the color on the matter of the picture, the boy and the concrete and drawing.

Hi Asher,

While the B&W conversion still delivers a nice image (because of the contrasy lighting), now the "couleur locale", so typical of the boy's culture, is lost.

I like the color version much better.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
Your narrative makes this image work, Prateek. Visually it doesn't feel good. You've not made final choices. The wall occupying the entire left of the frame is meaningless. Perhaps if there was someone lying on the ground or an interesting passerby in that area it would fill-in the contrast that the composition promises. But there isn't.

Instead, we want to see this boy against more of the King Kong Meets Mumbai mural 90 degrees to the wall. We're left imagining the rest of the mural.

(And, no, this is a perfect example of when NOT to fool with b&w conversion!).

But your story presents a wonderful distraction from the image and makes us strain to see his red toenails rather wonder about the scene's emptiness.

I'm enjoying your Indian snaps.
 

Prateek Dubey

New member
Your narrative makes this image work, Prateek. Visually it doesn't feel good. You've not made final choices. The wall occupying the entire left of the frame is meaningless. Perhaps if there was someone lying on the ground or an interesting passerby in that area it would fill-in the contrast that the composition promises. But there isn't.

Instead, we want to see this boy against more of the King Kong Meets Mumbai mural 90 degrees to the wall. We're left imagining the rest of the mural.

(And, no, this is a perfect example of when NOT to fool with b&w conversion!).

But your story presents a wonderful distraction from the image and makes us strain to see his red toenails rather wonder about the scene's emptiness.

I'm enjoying your Indian snaps.

Hello Ken,
Thanks for passing by. For me the blue wall on the left is very important. I believe its there to justify the pose and its background. There needs to be something in the 'relative' to justify a presence. Just the reds would've made things too easy and obvious, with no implication of a decision taken by veer bahadur himself, and the morning sun of course.
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
... I believe its there to justify the pose and its background. There needs to be something in the 'relative' to justify a presence.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested in your point of view. I don't see that wall as a worthwhile element in the scene. But I'm open to seeing differently. After all, I was not there (but nor were any other viewers).

Perhaps mine is just a common perspective that needs broadening. But to me the elements and relationships I would have tried to capture are as follows.
  • The boy. We can't see him shiver and, in fact, he doesn't really look cold. But his cross-armed stance (probably because he's cold, eh?), chin down a bit, and one leg forward suggests a street urchin who fears little. A common travel doc subject but always good for a bit of interest.
  • The mural. Street art like this is an expression of the neighborhood. This is obviously something that someone devoted much time toward painting.
  • The boy is about the same size as King Kong. Plus, he's standing on some grungy makeshift steps making him even closer to Kong, almost as if he's posing next to his vicarious portrait. Kong even appears to be looking down at him. The boy's posture now plays an even greater visual role with Kong. You've also used an heroic angle suggesting that you wanted to portray this relationship even more strongly. (That makes the overbearing presence of that wall at left even stranger.)
So those elements and relationships really leave me wanting to see the boys against that mural in the same pose and position but from a straighter angle that reveals more of the scene to the right, and perhaps more of the general scene. The opportunity to display incongruity here seems much greater. I don't give a rats about the "blue wall", but I'm open to being educated. Really.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Can you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested in your point of view. I don't see that wall as a worthwhile element in the scene. But I'm open to seeing differently. After all, I was not there (but nor were any other viewers).

Ken,

Prateek will comment on his feelings for the wall. For me it's the boy's territory. He's placed himself to one side of the Kong painting as if he wants to be seen in the same way, perched on the ratty steps. However, unlike Kong, his world is horizontal, not vertical. It's there in the alleys that he has to survive. That's the difference between powerful generals with telescopes looking down and then their troops in the valley below getting killed. Prateek's boy is in such a valley. The wall makes the alley on the corner part of the picture.

His toenails? Of course I wanted to see that too. That's perhaps a separate composition challenge, an artful redesign with what he already has, in fact a new project.

B&W? Here I strongly disagree. B&W should be part of a consideration, but not necessarily used. It does at times even provide clues as to how one might render the colored version. It cannot be that the camera's brain has our range of perception of what might be relevant. Removing color allows us to see the form without colors distraction and emotional weighting of elements. For how I see this scene, (not as a wet shivering thing, but as a street urchin child commanding his territory of derelict alleys, posing to be seen in comparison to Kong), is clearly delivered in B&W. No color is required. Having said that, it's the photographer who has to decide whether or not his own concept is embedded and delivered in B&W well. He has already said yes to that.

Asher
 

Prateek Dubey

New member
Can you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested in your point of view. I don't see that wall as a worthwhile element in the scene. But I'm open to seeing differently. After all, I was not there (but nor were any other viewers).

Perhaps mine is just a common perspective that needs broadening. But to me the elements and relationships I would have tried to capture are as follows.
  • The boy. We can't see him shiver and, in fact, he doesn't really look cold. But his cross-armed stance (probably because he's cold, eh?), chin down a bit, and one leg forward suggests a street urchin who fears little. A common travel doc subject but always good for a bit of interest.
  • The mural. Street art like this is an expression of the neighborhood. This is obviously something that someone devoted much time toward painting.
  • The boy is about the same size as King Kong. Plus, he's standing on some grungy makeshift steps making him even closer to Kong, almost as if he's posing next to his vicarious portrait. Kong even appears to be looking down at him. The boy's posture now plays an even greater visual role with Kong. You've also used an heroic angle suggesting that you wanted to portray this relationship even more strongly. (That makes the overbearing presence of that wall at left even stranger.)
So those elements and relationships really leave me wanting to see the boys against that mural in the same pose and position but from a straighter angle that reveals more of the scene to the right, and perhaps more of the general scene. The opportunity to display incongruity here seems much greater. I don't give a rats about the "blue wall", but I'm open to being educated. Really.

Hello Ken,
The mural, the wall,and I were all incidental. But what really struck me was the co incidence of the boy's name. The object of this picture is not just a display of aesthetics ( though I strive to achieve my best in that) but also share an interesting experience. Street photography is hardly ever 'perfect'. There are bound to be elements which exist beyond the scope of a full explaination and that is the charm of it.
We hardly have any street art. This is an advertisement for a cement company but that is inconsequential too. For me it is the combination of all elements coming together, some making sense and some raising questions.
I see the picture telling story of a boy who believes he's as strong as King Kong, yet he's at a cornerstone of reality. The blue wall for me IS the background, not King Kong. For me the mural is the boy himself. He's small with a big attitude, that is what the picture is telling at its face value.
My narrative only justifies its presence in this particular forum. There is discordance in what 'really' happened ( his shivers, and his nailpolish) and his appearance. If I hadn't mentioned it, nobody could've known.
Finally that this picture sucked you into a discussion whether the blue wall is a necessary element or not makes it even more successfull. I believe pictures or paintings should not be fully comprehensible. If things explain readily they become boring. One of my favourite songs is 'Black Dog' by Led Zepplin and there is not even a passing reference to a dog in it, let alone black.
If the blue wall is disturbing you, then the picture fails for you, but I think It works for me as a logical background to the boy's image.
 

Prateek Dubey

New member
Your narrative makes this image work, Prateek. Visually it doesn't feel good. You've not made final choices. The wall occupying the entire left of the frame is meaningless. Perhaps if there was someone lying on the ground or an interesting passerby in that area it would fill-in the contrast that the composition promises. But there isn't.

Instead, we want to see this boy against more of the King Kong Meets Mumbai mural 90 degrees to the wall. We're left imagining the rest of the mural.

(And, no, this is a perfect example of when NOT to fool with b&w conversion!).

But your story presents a wonderful distraction from the image and makes us strain to see his red toenails rather wonder about the scene's emptiness.

I'm enjoying your Indian snaps.

Hello Ken,
I forgot to add something important, my justification for the blue wall is really a hindsight. There was no other angle I could think of at that time. If I were to take the boy just with the mural, my big fat shadow was coming in the way. So the blue wall works for me as an object which makes its way into the story. Even though this character was out of control, it plays an important part in the scheme of things...
 

Prateek Dubey

New member
Ken,

Prateek will comment on his feelings for the wall. For me it's the boy's territory. He's placed himself to one side of the Kong painting as if he wants to be seen in the same way, perched on the ratty steps. However, unlike Kong, his world is horizontal, not vertical. It's there in the alleys that he has to survive. That's the difference between powerful generals with telescopes looking down and then their troops in the valley below getting killed. Prateek's boy is in such a valley. The wall makes the alley on the corner part of the picture.

His toenails? Of course I wanted to see that too. That's perhaps a separate composition challenge, an artful redesign with what he already has, in fact a new project.

B&W? Here I strongly disagree. B&W should be part of a consideration, but not necessarily used. It does at times even provide clues as to how one might render the colored version. It cannot be that the camera's brain has our range of perception of what might be relevant. Removing color allows us to see the form without colors distraction and emotional weighting of elements. For how I see this scene, (not as a wet shivering thing, but as a street urchin child commanding his territory of derelict alleys, posing to be seen in comparison to Kong), is clearly delivered in B&W. No color is required. Having said that, it's the photographer who has to decide whether or not his own concept is embedded and delivered in B&W well. He has already said yes to that.

Asher

Hello Asher,
Wow! that's such a wonderful understanding of the image. Also I must say that an image can invoke so many different feelings. For you the corner creates a perspective, for me the colors did. The fact that red and blue are on a collision course here makes it interesting for me. I'll re-iterate what I shared with Ken, that most things in this picture( often with all street photography) were beyond my control. At that time I was busy avoiding my shadow falling on the wall, thus this angle was created. The mural was there, the boy happened to be there and his name turned out to be Veer Bahadur. The story I believe goes beyond the mere picture. Its also about the fate of the photographer himself, even if he's an outsider. But we've to take things at face value and see whether something works aesthetically or not.
The picture may have compositional flaws, but I think it invokes a story in the viewer's heart. That is its strong point. I wish I were better at taking pictures, it could've been a winner...
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
Thank you for such a thoughtful and honest treatise on this image, Prateek. Your thoughts are well taken and I now better understand your feelings. I hope onlookers also enjoyed your thoughts.
 

Prateek Dubey

New member
Thank you for such a thoughtful and honest treatise on this image, Prateek. Your thoughts are well taken and I now better understand your feelings. I hope onlookers also enjoyed your thoughts.

My pleasure Ken. Hope we'll have more mutually beneficial discussions....
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
When a picture with saturated colors survives so well being made into B&W and is still powerful, that says something for the essential build of the image in the first place. The story of the boy is interesting and makes for a heart touching discussion on our role in being observers. But, then what could we do, take the boy back to our hotel and change his life? We are unfortunately left in the position of just snapping images, sampling the precious moment and walking on.

Asher
 
Top