LightZone: learning to change color to b&w

Diane Fields's thoughtful post in the "Rainier Travel Photography" thread this morning made me want to learn LightZone's tool for saving an image in black and white. I'm beginning to get the hang of it. I'd like to have made a little more focus on the urn as subject and had a little more black-and-white contrast.

To make this image, I cropped the urn out of the larger color image which I had posted in the "Rainier Travel Photography" thread, in the Photography as Art forum, before I understood the parameters of the discussion there--that it wasn't broadly about "blurry photos."

Then with LightZone's "Channel Mixer" tool, I adjusted the RGB until the urn's appearance suited me as nearly as I could get it to. Then I saved the image and, to change it to JPEG, I exported it to a subfolder in My Pictures.



I would like to get it more starkly black and white.

Will go back and play with it some more.

Any suggestions to help me would be very welcome.

Mary

I, too, am struggling with B&W conversions in LightZone. So far, I find the channel mixer to be rather obnoxious to use (I'm used to the one in Gimp, which has the handy "preserve luminosity" option).

For images that were nearly monochromatic to begin with, I've actually been happier setting saturation to -100 and then just using the ZoneMapper to get tonalities in the right place.

If I feel like I absolutely must use the channel mixer, I make sure that all 3 channels total to 1.0. If they total less than that, you can never get a pure white. More than that and you'll start clipping the highlights if you aren't very careful. Once you've channel mixed, THEN do the zone mapper (I could see doing two passes if the original image was way off and you needed one to get things visible).

I also find it very handy to do multiple sharpening steps. The first at a very large radius (20), which doesn't so much sharpen as increase local contrast. The second with a smaller radius (2) for actual sharpening. And then realize that LightZone shows far far more sensor noise than other converters I've tried. Gets things as absolutely sharp as possible, but definitely more noise.

Depending on the effect you want, just doing heavy sharpening steps might be enough to get it to "starkly black and white".

Erik DeBill said:

I, too, am struggling with B&W conversions in LightZone. So far, I find the channel mixer to be rather obnoxious to use (I'm used to the one in Gimp, which has the handy "preserve luminosity" option).

Click to expand...

All I've ever used are these two: first, Adobe PhotoDeluxe, that came bundled with my Kodak DC210, and Irfanview.

Never really wanted to convert a colored image to black-and-white until I began reading the various threads here about artistic values in black-and-white images.

For images that were nearly monochromatic to begin with, I've actually been happier setting saturation to -100 and then just using the ZoneMapper to get tonalities in the right place.

Click to expand...

I'll try to find one of mine that has fewer and lower color values and try that.

If I feel like I absolutely must use the channel mixer, I make sure that all 3 channels total to 1.0. If they total less than that, you can never get a pure white. More than that and you'll start clipping the highlights if you aren't very careful. Once you've channel mixed, THEN do the zone mapper (I could see doing two passes if the original image was way off and you needed one to get things visible).

Click to expand...

Ah, thank you for this information. I got the idea from the Help file to use the Channel Mixer. As you can tell from the image I was playing with, I didn't get a very artistic result, to say the least.

I also find it very handy to do multiple sharpening steps. The first at a very large radius (20), which doesn't so much sharpen as increase local contrast. The second with a smaller radius (2) for actual sharpening. And then realize that LightZone shows far far more sensor noise than other converters I've tried. Gets things as absolutely sharp as possible, but definitely more noise.

Click to expand...

I used to play with sharpening quite a bit with Irfanview. A couple of times was about all the images I had could stand.

I'll try this technique in LightZone.

Depending on the effect you want, just doing heavy sharpening steps might be enough to get it to "starkly black and white".

Click to expand...

I'll try it some more. Since the image is a memorial urn, I wanted to get a sort of graveyard effect. (And it's not even the month of Halloween yet.)

Thank you so very much for this reply, Eric.

I'm off to play.

Mary

Mary,

If you have it available, get iphoto.

It has a wonderful B&W conversion just with one button click.

Lightzone is for very small amounts of changes in the beginning until you get the feel of it. At present you would be best to start with using iphoto or else photoshop and desaturate or just convert to greyscale.

Then compare the three and see what you like.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Mary,
If you have it available, get iphoto.
It has a wonderful B&W conversion just with one button click.

Click to expand...

I'll do a google.

Lightzone is for very small amounts of changes in the beginning until you get the feel of it.

Click to expand...

I've been enjoying it tremendously. It's very intuitive, and where "what to do" isn't immediately apparent, the Help file is excellent. The cropping tool is wonderful--a bit more information in it than in Irfanview's cropping tool.

I'm getting a little more used to the point setting in the "Regions" drawing tool, now, also, and I like it.

Some of the other tools are for things I've never done before, like masking and layering, so I just peeked to see what they did, and went back to manipulating more as I'd done in Irfanview.

At present you would be best to start with using iphoto or else photoshop and desaturate or just convert to greyscale.

Click to expand...

My son put Photoshop Elements on my machine back in December, 2004. He made me download and print out the entire manual. But he could only visit for 4 days.

I found the whole thing beyond me. And it was grabbing all the pictures I uploaded from the G2; I'd have a hard time getting them back to Adobe PhotoDeluxe (the only other thing I had at the time). I got tired of doing that and uninstalled the app.

I'm not sure I'd want to tangle with Photoshop, if it's anything like Photoshop Elements.

Then compare the three and see what you like.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

I tend to have strong likes and dislikes. I hated Corel, which came bundled with the old Compaq. Uninstalled it as soon as I got the Kodak DC210 cum Adobe PhotoDeluxe. Corel was another picture-grabber, at least in my limited experience.

I'm enjoying playing with LightZone immensely, though.

Off to have a look for iphoto, now.

Mary

Asher Kelman said:

Mary,
If you have it available, get iphoto.

Click to expand...

Asher, as near as I can make out from inputting "iphoto" to Google, this is an app made exclusively for Apple-type computers.

I'm running Windows. XP Home, Service Pack 2, to be precise.

Too much time, learning curve, and money already invested in this platform to want to change from it right now.

I do recognize the advantages of Apple and its other platforms for both graphics and music. But I'm already "married" to Windows. <offering a friendly smile>

Mary

Mary - you have picassa2 - you downloaded it a week or so ago. under effects it has b&w conversion. Irfan view is good for converting images from one format to another, gives meta data, etc. picassa2 is good for most everything else. Photoshop etc. is a steep learning curve, but you need it if you want to print stuff to good quality. For high quality printing you need qimage or other rip. For stuff for the web, picassa2 is your best bet - imnsho of course. no need to flit from app to app, learn one to pieces...

Best wishes,

Ray

Oh, btw, it used to be apple for graphics, but not so now. Avid develop first on windows, for example. The reason why apple was popular are now historic, in a few years they will be wintel too.

Thanks, Ray.

I see that I haven't sufficiently explored the capabilities of Picasa2. Off to have a look.

Nor, what Irfanview can do, either!

It is so great to have all these tutors and mentors available to me, including yourself.

Thanks a mil, Ray!

Mary

Ah, see how stuck in the past I am!
<rolling on the floor laughing at myself>

Be careful:

1. IrfanView's UI isn't for the faint of heart
2. If you go the b/w route don't use a tool that offers nothing more than saturation.
3. As long as you don't have specific needs often try to stick with one program; it's already bad enough that most pros and ambitious amateurs have to make up with various applications.

Since I don't have the need to go b/w very often I have not yet checked LightZone's way but I cannot quite imagine realistically that it is severely worse than the other procedures. Nevertheless, as I already own Photoshop CS2, I have gone the automatic way: several authors offer, even for free, very good b/w routines. One source is Russell Brown.

Thanks a mil, Dierk.

This is chiefly a learning exercise for me.

I've just done something using Picasa2 to the image, starting from the original file, which suits my imagined idea of what I wanted to do pretty well. Was in process of posting this version, for the curious, when your post arrived.

I still mean to master LightZone's Channel Mixer Tool, however. Just so I'll know how.

Mary

Urn in Black, Gray, and White

Ray West said:

Mary - you have picassa2 - you downloaded it a week or so ago. under effects it has b&w conversion. Irfan view is good for converting images from one format to another, gives meta data, etc. picassa2 is good for most everything else.

Click to expand...

I began again with the original file in Picasa2. Cropped it there. Tended to the b&w in effects. Got it as near to the vision of my inner eye as I'm likely to get it, I think.

Had already left Picasa2 when I decided I'd like the image smaller. Took it into Irfanview and downsized it 50% using Resize/Resample (chose resample).

I still like color best, natural and sharp, except in this shot, which was pretty blah to me, and that's why I decided to proceed with my b&w practicing using this original image.

For the curious:

Urn in Black, Gray, and White



Mary

Mary,

I knew you were worth encouraging! You are a soldier! Golly! You are on a roll!

The B&W is a major improvement.

Here's a task, if you will.

Consider, the folllowing plan:

Make versions of this image each optimized for

1. the bushes,

2. the stone,

3. leaves in the center,

4. the Nell Conlee Hunt plaque,

5. the column-urn,

6. the plant on time,

7. shadows.

This is a large task but each step simply relies on skills you already have. Now for each step, you can use any program. It is of no consequence at this stage. Just don't change the size!

The next step we could perhaps work out how to combine all these. Each in a simple way.

If you wish, you can stay in Lightzone for each version. However, save each version separately.

Would this be helpful to you?

With this, you will know more than some pretty good photoshop users!

Asher

I'm game. I will try. <brave smile>

Just be prepared to wait awhile for the various versions.

Shall I send them to you by PM e-mail, when I'm done?

Don't want to wear out my welcome with this topic, here at the Layback Cafe.

I've dragged some pretty intensive beginner's work in here among the pros and knowledgeable amateurs!

Mary

On the contrary, Mary, you, I'm sure, are helping, (by your openness to new experience and risks of failure), to bridge the chasm of inaction in the path of image optimization. This is the path to clarifying ideas in an image, to making parts of an image play their respective rolls.

This journey is important. Once the idea of local optimization is understood, we can deal with each part in more thoughtful ways.

Asher

I'm on my way.
And I"ll keep you updated about it here.

Mary