Lightroom beta 4 and color spaces

I haven't yet installed beta 4, curious if they got the processing speed up as beta 3 was really non functional due to processing speed IMO, however much I like the output.

Also, beta 3 was like camera raw in that you only had 4 color spaces to pick from, does anyone know if beta 4 or the final version is going to allow you to pick more than the basic 4 color spaces? Since it's based on Rawshooter code and it allowed for this, I am still hoping that it will be possible.

Paul C.

it's faster (uses some of RSE code already). .but doesn't allow for more than the 3 color spaces, adobe rgb, srgb and pro photo

Thanks Jim, I meant 3 spaces not 4 as you pointed out.

Too bad, I do hope that they can allow for more and not sure why they don't currently.

Paujl

Are you talking about color spaces for output or for a working space? Can you provide example workflows of where you need to use alternative color spaces.

The one that I'm arguing for is creating output for a remote printing service that provides custom profiles. I'm happy to work in Prophoto RGB, but want the output converted to a profile of my choosing using a conversion method of my choosing on export so it can be uploaded or transported to a thirdparty printer and will give the right results.

(As an aside, we are not picking up code from RawShooter. Michael Jonsson is giving a lot of design input, and working on some totally new stuff, but features you are seeing were either already in development before Pixmantec was bought, or are entirely new.)

-Z-

Hi,

I'll add my voice to those who would like to be able to create output for remote printing services - and yes in my case that would require support for alternative color spaces. As with you Zalman, I am happy working with ProPhoto RGB for the rest of the workflow.

Has there been any indication yet as to whether this will make it into V1?

Welcome Zalman..

Great to have you here!

In your model with additional output spaces, will we be able to view the histogram and clip indications in the selected output space? Essentially a softproof?

Alternative color spaces

I am looking for the ablity to output to diff. color spaces, more than the 3 allowed.

Capture One, Raw shooter Pre, both allow this.

I prefer to use the Joseph Holmes developed color spaces, and would like to use his color space 100 as my output.

Prophoto works some of the time but I just prefer to have this capability.

Thanks
Paul C.

Zalman, I've made my opinions of the color space workflow in LR known elsewhere but....

I have no issues with the three options for color space encoding (in fact, if you tossed Adobe RGB (1998), I'd be OK but you might piss of some folks). Some actually feel ONLY ProPhoto should be used (you can move to a smaller space). For web work, if you automatically encoded into sRGB, for the time being, that be fine too. You'll take a lot of heat on this because folks feel they need the option for any RGB working space or even output color space.

I think and hope that eventually sRGB should go away but that's a few years off.

What I'd like to see however, at least in version one is parity with ACR behavior with respect to color numbers and histogram. I think the model Thomas has setup is pretty easy and flexible. A toggle somewhere (it could even be on the Histogram) where each of the three spaces I wish to use (sRGB, Adobe RGB (1998) or ProPhoto) can be selected and the Histogram AND color numbers (in either percentages which are only somewhat useful or better, 0-255) update to reflect the current options set. This is how ACR works and I think most users are happy with it.

Where LR seems to sway, and I'm not happy with this approach not having the same RGB numbers and Histogram displayed in LR as I'll eventually see in Photoshop after you render and encode the data. That you're not really showing the internal Linear gamma space is fine; people would get confused by that. Showing a gamma encoded space based on the color space selected while doing all the work in the bkgnd with Melissa RGB is fine. I just want the controls and read-out's I'm seeing in LR to match what I eventually get in Photoshop. Right now, the entire "hide the numbers, hide the real Histogram" rubs me the wrong way. The behavior doesn't match ACR which I think you guys are trying to do. All we need is a single popup menu or contextual menu that lists the three encoding color spaces. Tie that to the export or Open in External Application (that's what you gut). I'm even cool if you force everything into 16-bit (in fact you should for everything but perhaps sRGB). Or again, simply match the behavior or ACR and provide another popup for bit depth (or argue with Thomas that the next version of ACR tosses that for simplicity and just feeds 16-bit to Photoshop which I'd again be OK with).

To add to the above with respect to output color spaces, it's going to add a LOT of extra baggage which is OK as long as everyone understands this. Add output color spaces, you have to add soft proofing (the entire shooting match including paper and ink simulation which with any UI is a big headache). Do you only support RGB or go with CMYK? We need output color space numbers for editing. You need to have all rendering intents because some folks might be cross rendering so now you have to add proof to the mix. You need to be able to soft proof in Develop AND print. What do you do when you have four images you want to print in the Print module and feel 3 need one rendering intent, 1 needs another? All or nothing? Photoshop has most of this stuff and it's kind of a mess. I don't expect to see any of this in version 1 and I hope if output conversions are possible, it's done correctly and with the simplicity we don't have in Photoshop. A big can of worms.

Right now, we can't even export a page built in Print module as a raster file for a lab let alone build in an output color space. We need that first. If LR can export a PDF, it seems the next logical step is to output a TIFF or JPEG in one of the three supported working spaces.